Saudi Government to Demolish Prophet Muhammed’s home

Re: # 75

You are right, wahabbi ideology of being ahistorical and blind to one`s heritage will leave our descendents deprived.

In numerous places outside of Arabia they ordered the destruction of old graveyards and mosques and replaced them with new wahabbi ones. Did not repair or restore the old ones. To me this shows that this plan of systematic demolition is to replace Islamic heritage with a wahabbi heritage. This is destruction of history and re-writing of history happening before our eyes.

Why is it so difficult for them to value Islamic heritage and to at least try to come up with ways to fit it in their plans instead of destroying it?

Re: #76

Pushing the issue under the rug is the order of the day, as I have been reminded multiple times today...

But please don`t give up, please help spread the word.

Re: #74

With all due respect, I understood your mantra too, a while ago.

May I suggest that you too try to be consistent with your mantra (see Sahih Muslim, Book 1, No. 79).

Regarding ducking: One stimulus, different responses -- some duck, some speak, some stand. But I already talked about this above and there`s no value judgement.

If you can, please help spread the word. Otherwise, peace on you.

thanks

Re: # 75

Talha chowk is a rareity, It is the only forum , where you are getting SOME response....!1
Else where the situation is much pathetic, and I agree every One every where , seems to push the issue under the RUG, and avoids any mention of it, what to say about discussing...


Maybe..... Muslims are now considering Islam to be a Lost cause....??
and want to get over with it.....

Farzan, thank you for writing this piece. It was about time someone wrote about this topic on chowk.

Not to mention how surprised i am by the interactions over here. Its seems that history, and culture have no value to some of us here. However, this isn`t only about history, culture, and the richness of a tradition. It is also about the Islamic tradition of hundreds of years. The house of the Prophet is a place where he received revelations from God. It is a place where we muslims if allowed by the goverment could visit and learn and appreciate the times of the Prophet. Its a place where angels visited frequently, and the pure friends and family of the Prophet lived. It has a spiritual significance for the MAJORITY of muslims.

Not that this solves muslim problems. Its not even about our problems. It has nothing to do with problems. It has to do with an identity and tradition.

I suggest people read up on Sami Angawi. He is one heck of Saudi architect. And has alot to talk regarding this topic.

#73:

you have repeated both the mantras a few times...why don`t you try and understand the message?

duck the wahabis duck the saudis understand and try to follow the message the prophet (saw) delivered

Re: # 71

I agree with you. If the wahabbis can destroy muslim history with impunity imagine what they think of other religions and their places of worship and culture. When the Taliban (wahabbis) blew up the buddhas of Bamian in Afghanistan, wahabbi apologists and rationalists covered up that inexcusable crime.

Sunni Islam in India and Pakistan is becoming rapidly infected with wahabbism, and sunnis in the sub-continent have been traditionally known for their moderation and temperance. With strong wahabbi streaks now, thousands of minority muslims in pakistan have been killed and their places of worship bombed.

This systematic shift is also evident even from the interactions of multiple apparently moderate people here. If you read through their responses, their message is to simply ignore this problem or to accept it, because implicitly they believe in the validity of the wahabbi doctrine that historical or cultural monuments are threats. The more vocal wahabbis openly declare that saudi family has a special status and should not be questioned.

I think the world has much to fear from rise of wahabbism, especially given the fact that it is and will continue to be fed by rising saudi oil wealth. Imagine a wahabbi ruler of a country with a large non-muslim population, the outcome would not be pretty. Same can be said of a country with a large muslim minority. The rise of a wahabbi ideology would inevitably lead to terrorism and extremism, and I think India has seen a lot of it.

Re: # 63

You said:

``If Royal family looses it will be like Iran and all people of world will be suffering as there will democracy and what not, leading to new rulers ...``

In #8 you said:

``Dogs do not bite the feeding hands otherwise they are kicked out.``

I think under this line of thinking one is incapable of imagining anything but being an absolute slave of the royal family. I feel sorry for this.

You may want to consider yourself a dog of the royal family, but don`t ask others to behave like you.

What is the price you would put on your self-esteem and the people you love? What amount of Saudi money is enough for you to consider your mother, father, sisters, brothers, sons and daughters to be the property of the Saudi Royal family?

Come, come, let us not be angry. Your point of view believes in being a dog and a slave of royalty!

Hmm....these same enlightened personalities - have nothing to say about
the thousands of temples and viharas destroyed in Pakistan. They identify more with
Saudi Arabia and what happens there.

Vidyadhar Naipaul is proven right once again.

umer:

bravo!

good story

the irony is sheep is growing..by last count to 1.2 bil plus...and there ain`t a forest big enough;)

rgds

t

ps: recall the words of `bu bak`r when he returned to the prophet`s mosque upon his death when omar was holding the forth?

Reading the above made me pen this little number below. Man, I ain`t no grave worshipper but ths is plain wrong. Those at the top treat politics and religion as a big family business. Their children grow up with the property and belongings of others handed to them on a gold platter. You will hear it in their tones. You will see it in their body language. They`re all born managers.

They have absolutely no fucking empathy or understanding for the feelings of those whom they rule over. Who the hell gave a bunch of people the right to dictate to over a billion people as to how they should think or that they cannot be responsible for their faith.

And where`s the response from the people? Fucking smelly sheep.


Once, in Ferghana Valley, there lived a flock of sheep. Cute, white and fluffy, they ate all day long. They grazed upon the fresh wet grass, drank the cool clean waters of Syr River and inhaled the air swept down from the Pamir Mountains. Thus, they became cuter, whiter, fluffier.

The sheep lived their life without a care in the world. Every morning, the air carried with it the perfume of moist soil and chlorophyll from the cut grass. Every night, there was the warm safe sanctuary of a pen. Life was good and simple.

The sheep were led, not surprisingly, by a sheepdog, who was answerable to a human. Every morning, the dog would wake up and run around the sheep, barking orders for them to move here and move there.

It was one such day when a curious baby lamb asked his elder brother:

‘Why do we take orders from him, the one with four legs and a horrible bark?’

‘Because he is our leader,’ said brother proudly. ‘And what a leader he is: that growl, that shiny black coat and those fearsome canines. Wow.’

‘Oh,’ said the baby lamb. ‘But why does he look so different from us?’

‘Because he is a dog and we are sheep,’ instructed brother.

The little lamb grew silent. Growing older, a question came into his confused mind which he posed to his mother:

‘Why must we take orders from a dog?

‘Because we need him to lead us.’ Mother said straightforwardly.

‘Does that mean we don’t know how to lead our own lives?’ asked the little lamb.

‘We are sheep and he is a dog,’ is all that the mother said. ‘It has always been that way.’

The little lamb grew quieter until he entered youth. The youth knew much more of the sheep’s life. He knew now that there was another animal, a Human, who had installed the dog to lead the sheep. But the youth still could not understand why they had to be led by a dog – an animal he had come to hate. The irritated adolescent approached his father:

‘I will not take orders from someone who does not know us!’

‘You will disobey an ancient tradition?’ his father said disbelievingly.

The youth bleated. ‘He is a dog; we are sheep. He has canines; we have molars. He eats meat; we eat grass. He barks; we bleat. He has a coat; we have wool.’ Steam was rising through the young blood’s nostrils. ‘How can we follow someone who doesn’t come from us – someone who doesn’t understand us?’

The father was furious to hear that the youth had spoken against an old tradition. He scolded the young son who walked away brooding.

Not very far from the valley was a jungle. Here, a pack of travelling wolves had convened to discuss their next meal. One by one, they discussed the lands they had travelled to and the animals they had met.

Said the eldest wolf: ‘My native land has plenty of moose and they are big and ugly and with horns that are twice our length. I am too old to kill one on my own, but with team work and with good directions from the leader, they can be brought down.’

The deputy wolf then spoke of his journey: ‘On my travels to Africa, I saw many animals that ate grass. But they lived in big families helped by their leaders. And there were many predators too: Cousin coyote, Nephew fox and Uncle cat.’

One by one, they described their journeys into the different continents and icy wastelands and deserts and forests and those strange places called cities occupied by humans.

Throughout the meeting, the youngest wolf had had on him a smirk. Now that it was his turn to speak, he burst out laughing:

‘I know you wolves are older than myself. And compared to you lot, what I know is only the tip of the iceberg.’ Here he broke off into another bout of laughter. ‘But you’re not going to believe what I’ve seen.’

The pack raised its ears.

‘I’ve seen some pretty weird animals and hunted some crazy ones too but I’ve never seen an animal more stupid than a sheep.’ He howled.

‘A what? Why is this sheep animal stupid?’

‘Uncle Wolf,’ the young wolf addressed a grey-haired animal. ‘You’ve seen buffaloes and they are ruled by a buffalo. You’ve seen Zebras and they are led by a Zebra. The deer are led by the deer. The elephants are led by the elephant. Grandpa,’ the youngster now turned his attention to the chief wolf. ‘The moose; who leads and protects them? The moose of course. But guess what; these sheep are led by a dog!’

‘Cousin Dog! Argh ha ha ha ha harrrr.’ The entire night, the forest was filled with howles. That night they decided that they would feast upon these sheep. An animal so stupid deserved to die. The mission was given to the youngest wolf who decided to replace the dog. After all, who could disguise better as a dog, but a wolf.

One night, when the sheep had gone inside their shelters, the wolf snuck behind the dog and killed him. From now on, he would observe, and like a true predator wait for the right time to come.

By now the adolescent lamb had grown into a strong muscular Ram. His thick, intimidating horns curled twice before jutting forward. He had become openly rebellious too, something he came to clash over with the entire flock.

‘You are stubborn and strong-headed,’ they bleated.

‘I recognise authority and I’m willing to obey but how can I take orders from an animal who doesn’t understand who I am?’

‘But the dog is a good leader.’

‘The dog is a dictator who was installed by the Human. He barks and pushes us around. He is not one of us. How can we put our trust within him? Do we not have any pride or intelligence to govern ourselves?’

The flock was aghast to hear that. ‘For generations,’ said the ewes and the rams, ‘we have been happy the way we have been living. Nothing has ever happened to us. The human is benign and the dog has protected us. Just look at our plump bodies and our thick wool.’

The ram stomped the ground like a bull. ‘You are all slaves! The human is not benign. Did he cut grass for our sustenance or plant trees for our shade? Did he carve out the river for our nourishment? Did he sculpt the mountains for us to marvel at? Did he perfume the fresh air for us to breathe? This land always belonged to all of us. He just happened to put a fence around it. We are his prostitutes! The human needs us; that’s why he keeps us alive! What good is it to have dead sheep?’

‘Why don’t you leave us alone? We are happy to be the way we are?’

‘You are happy to live in a dream because you think that that dream will last your lifetime. But we have become weak. Tomorrow, if that dog,’ the ram sneered at the wolf-in- disguise, ‘or that Human was to turn on us, we would not be able to do anything.’

This was the truth and the flock knew it. But they were reluctant to accept the painful reality, so they chose to live in a fairytale. In unison, they all turned their backs to the rebel. The Ram was shocked. His eyes welled up with tears. He had been rejected by his own – including his family – and told to leave the flock forever.

Slowly and painfully, he turned around. Something told him he would never see his family again. He walked away from the pen and disappeared into the valley to live a new life. He never came back.

The few days the young wolf had spent living his life in disguise were educational. He had learnt the mentality of the sheep. The wolf was bigger than the dog, his fangs longer, his ‘bark’ more of a growl, yet the sheep never noticed. And how could they? If the dog could not understand the nature of those he ordered around, then the sheep also could not understand the real nature of the animal they took orders from.

If ever the wolf had any remorse for those cuddly white dumplings on four legs, it was not there any longer. Indeed, such stupid animals had existed throughout time only to be eaten. Fearsome as he was, however, the young wolf had feared the rebellious ram – even respected him.

Now that the Ram had left the flock to live a new life, the wolf was free to do as he wished. One night, he returned to the forest and informed his pack to prepare for an ambush.

The next morning, the ewes and rams had come out, doing what they had always done. Swiftly, the wolf led them out of the pen, then gathered them into a new formation and steered them into a new direction. Before long, the wolf was leading them away from the areas where they normally grazed.

They were headed towards the forest.

The sheep didn’t seem to mind. They didn’t know any better. Bleating merrily along their way, they happily followed the wolf.

That day, the forest shook frighteningly and the valley echoed with growls and bleats. No sheep ever returned from the forest.

Umer M.

Atleast the Saudis are consistent. They support the destruction of Bamian Buddhas and now support the destruction of Mr.Muhammad`s houses.. Since ``idol worship`` is wrong and banned in Islam, I agree with their logic. Now they should extend it to the various mosques because now, the mosques have become the bigger idols .. The ``believers`` are now worshipping the ``mosque`` more than the message. So destructing those should be the Saudi/Wahaabi`s next step.. I like this.. :-))

I read articles on this last week in the Sydney Morning Herald and the Calcutta Statesman, and was going to post something on unplugged, but thought it would almost certainly be misconstrued by the usual suspects.
I`m surprised it`s taken this long for the normally vigilant chowk population to take notice of this. I have the excuse that I only access the Western media, but what about all the devout believers (and supposed liberals) who take issue with you if you ask about Osama being responsible for the 11/9 attacks?
What I find ironical is that the demolition of a disused mosque that was built to taunt the natives of a country caused so much havoc all over south Asia, yet in Saudi Arabia, structures of true, uncontested historical and religious value are being demolished by the safekeepers of the religion itself, without a murmur of protest from the same south Asian Muslims themselves. I have to ask again: does it just come down to money?

#62 by malik99 on August 20, 2005 10:53pm PT


I fail to see why/how preservation of a building will ease the deep issues muslims are facing today.


you`re absolutely right....personally, i don`t see how a resolution of the kashmir/palestine issue would better your lot....not that there`s going to be a resolution you`ll like....

Ref aisha_sarwari #32

[Re: # 30

The number of time Indians think they know all the answers and have the monopoly over all the logical conclusions.]

Actually, the same thought occurred to me as soon as I read the article a few minutes ago. AlephNull`s observation is right on the mark!

Yes, it does SEEM like Indians have a monopoly on logic but then that is natural, considering their tradition of inquiry, rhetoric and debate.

Development is more important than saving old things. Those who want to save can collect money and move away where there is no deveopment pressures like in desert. All liberal are just aiming to destroy S. Arabia. If Royal family looses it will be like Iran and all people of world will be suffering as there will democracy and what not, leading to new rulers demanding extreme high prices and will not like to help brother Muslim countries like Pakistan, B.Desh, Sudan, Afghan etc. And Pakistan will be sufferer but liberals do not care as they live in america and pontificate any detrimental policies hitting Pakistan.

I fail to see why/how preservation of a building will ease the deep issues muslims are facing today.

I am also amazed at the utter and obscene hipocrisy of those who are shedding crocodile`s tears over the potential loss of a historic/religious icon in saudi arabia. Yet its the same folks who cheered for the Iraqi invasion that resulted in the most spectacular destruction and loot of arts and artifacts from the era of earliest human civilization. Talibans and Wahabis have not destroyed as many historic sites as the Evagenlists have.

Saudis are merely a bunch of tin pot dictators, who will whittle away if they were not backed by their american friends.

From pure point of view of aesthetics I see nature’s deft strokes the best work of art. When I first saw images of Angkor Vat temple complex, of a giant head peering down at you through the thick canopy of tropical trees and partial view of delicate ornate structure of the temple hidden behind the trees, I was completely mesmerized. Now I am pretty disillusioned about the temple. The sanitized version of restored temple doesn’t exude the same aura. Imagine a partially ruined Taj Mahal with Peepul trees jutting out of its crevices, its base deformed by the roots of growing trees and largely hidden behind thick growth, wouldn’t that be awesome. Letting your imagination take a flight and complete the missing lines to visualize the awesome original work as you do with the Konark temple, isn’t imagination better than the real thing.

In any case nothing is permanent.