See RSS, Think Al Queda!

Dalit, post #44, excellent profile of proto-fascist traits... Early RSS ideologues met Mussolini, admired the black shirts - Maria Casolari has done great research on this. The RSS is called fascist so often because they openly admired the fascist model and sought to emulate it. Fascist organizations are obviously going to be highly authoritarian - casteism would be a virtue... If the RSS attracts dalits, its only by holding out promises they cannot fulfill. Dalits who ever supported them should have realized that post-Godhra when all the media seemed to be interested in were the 10% Dalit faces in the mob...Even in ordinary interactions, ashamed caste-Hindus like to blame everything on dalits - you`ll often see them do that with every riot - should be enough of a warning to dalits never to support them...Its a different story that in Gujarat, the VHP terrorised dalits as well and left them few options.

I`m thrilled that Ranger and others are openly airing their hatred and racism on this site....Just as the rantings of Sanghis served very well to indict their sorry fascist arses, the rantings of casteists will also be very useful documentation... Great goldmine for anthropologists examining caste-Hindu pathologies :) :). Anthropologists and human rights organizations need all the material they can get, and racist Hindus are VERY forthcoming. PhD students could (and do!) take great notes here, let these loving interactions go into books, let them go down in history.

Please don`t hold back - we need every single bit of documentation and demonstration for the continuing fact of racism. Thanks! Continue!

Ranger:

Would you like to be born in your next birth in the family of night soil carriers so that you can get qualified for reserved seats?

Ranger = Dalit = complete nut jobs

Foolish people, using long words and abuse to say silly things to each other. Nakli Dalit is a well known demagogue and hate monger; using hateful and ultimately racist language he wants to provoke people. Ranger seems to be as big a fool, using hateful language about the past (Ranger, would you enjoy the kind of language the racist britishers used about indians?).

The real question is education and self-improvement. How can we make pie larger for EVERYBODY? But these bevakoofs dont care. They are worse than a pair of uneducated village people fighting each other because they claim to be educated. Truly a sad spectacle.

Dalit , tell me , did you slip and fall into the village dump full of excreta of upper caste hindooos when you were a kid ? Was it fun ?

Dalit...I undertsand your hatred for hindooos. After all your mommy and daddy probably still work as night soil carriers , transferring the excreta of upper caste hindooos from toilet to the village dump for a living ....

Based on my previous post #44, I dare to analyze the posters here.

The first plank is that no dirty linen should be on display on this Pakistani site. This goes to the their fascist ideology that I mentioned in my post below.
“a thorough distaste for critical analysis, indeed for criticism of any sort.”

Dub any critic as “Muslim” because Muslim is the enemy and the Hindu ideology is so superior that only a “Muslim enemy” can speak ill of Hindu.
“RSS followers always stay on the message to demean and demonize Muslims”

Then we see a desire and condescending posts to discuss “issues”. If one were to go thru their posts it is quiet obvious that these posters lack any intellectual strength to discuss any issue much less the dalit issues. But the real desire behind their post is:
“We, together, are the best, we are the finest, and we have the right answers”

Then we see some come in and talk about liberal Hindus. When it comes down to caste and untouchables there are no liberal Hindus. How many liberal Hindus have ever lived in untouchable neighborhoods? How many would go down and clean bathrooms with untouchables? Would they clean their own bathrooms themselves in India? Not the European style but the real toilets.

How many times they clean their own bathrooms in the US? Most of their houses have the dirtiest bathrooms for American standards.

The nub of the story is that all of them are racist and shtups of the top order.

Subhash stands on thin ice when he takes the American interpretation of terrorism and applies that to the RSS. The US actually opposes a single interpretation of terrorism in the UN. In the absence of a one good interpretation of terrorism, it is more of a buzzword in the current geopolitical environments than anything else. Previously, the word fascism was extensively used and militant-fringe political ideologies of extreme right were dubbed as fascist. Now, almost the same groups go as terrorist.

Is the RSS terrorist or a fascist outfit as one poster has suggested.

The RSS admin model closely follows the Nazi, or the Italian fascist party set up. In the current world fascism is actually imbibed in an ideology and not in the admin set up of a political party.

What is fascism or the currently popular proto-fascism?

The first characteristic of proto-fascism is a cult of traditions that appeals to varied sectors of the population. And notice that a “cult” — not a respect for tradition, not a reverence for tradition, but a cult, a closed system of absolutes.

The second characteristic is the state of disgrace, a thorough distaste for critical analysis, indeed for criticism of any sort. Criticism threatens the cohesion of those contradictory traditions.

A third characteristic of fascism, related to this anti-intellectualism, is a cult of masculine action. What is important to the fascist is not so much the right or wrong or wisdom of the course one pursues, but that one pursues the course with manly boldness, determined and decisive. Second thoughts, self-doubt, contemplation, questioning, squeamishness, even a desire for more information —these, in the fascist view, all weaken the will and subvert the determination to succeed.

A fourth characteristic is a strange marriage of populism and elitism. We can see that marriage in the popular expression, “We, together, are the best, we are the finest, and we have the right answers, the right action.” But behind this self-congratulating facade of populism is an individualist elitism, a firm belief that only a few people embody the virtues so perfectly that they have a right — and a duty — to be at the head of the body politic. Examined closely, such a view means that the body politic, the populist mass, is regarded with a certain amount of contempt. The mass does not possess the sterling qualities of wisdom and determination embodied in the leadership.
And finally, constant supervision and correction are necessary because of the enemies.

The primary disgrace of fascism is that it cannot survive without enemies.

There are always enemies, an axis of evil within and outside the body politic. But fascist enemies are very strange. They are, like the Nazis’ stereotypical Jew, at one and the same time terribly dangerous and easily defeated.

At bottom, fascism grows in a compost of free-floating anxiety and frustration. It shows a profound need to squelch that anxiety with absolute certainty and mob conformity, and it relieves its frustration with decisive action against the enemies anxiety has created.

The RSS and its followers pretty much fit all the characteristics above. But the RSS is more a religious fundamentalist party than a fascist party. Both are recognized as close cousins.

The RSS like its Nazi cousins has found an enemy in stereotypical Indian Muslim. It seems that the RSS whole politics revolves around Indian Muslims and they ensure that the RSS followers always stay on the message to demean and demonize Muslims generally and Indian Muslims particularly.

How RSS anti Muslim plank impacts dalits? The truth is that in parts of the country RSS and its sister parties like BJP draw strength from dalits too. Its religious shrieks often blind sections of the dalit population to the real face of the RSS.

The RSS seeks to establish a Hindu religious state. A Hindu religious state means re-enforcing of the caste system.

The Hindu religion is a hotchpotch of pagan rituals and in essence its only agreement is on the caste system. The RSS and its followers make hilarious claims about abolishing of castes but the inherent contradiction in their claims and the nature of the Hindu religion makes it just a tactical ploy to gain dalit support against the Muslims.

Hindu religion is NOT reformable therefore; any one who supports converting India into a Hindu fundamentalist state is an enemy of dalits.

The Hindu caste system is another form of racism and apartheid. The racism is part of Hindu genes if “genes” can describe how deeply caste-ism is ingrained in the caste Hindu psyche.

GooglyMoogly`s post is such crap. He claims that upper caste hindus force dalits into tiolet cleaning whatever. Not a word of how freakin low caste shoodras like him are reserved 50% of the seats in all professional engineering and medical colleges in India including the IITs , and coveted jobs like IAS , IFS , IES...

GooglyMoogly...of course dalits are dumb. What do you expect ? You people dont get seats in colleges or jobs because of your intelligence or your academic performance - but inspite of it. If you get into a decent college , its only because you were born as a dalit. If you get into the IAS , its because you are a bhangi. For a upper caste guy to get into say comp. science in a top engineering college he has to get a rank of under 100 or 200. A dalit because can get the same seat with a ranking of 5000. Its only natural for the upper caste guy not to treat his dalit classmate as his equal. Its only natural for teachers to mock at the dalit students - because they dont deserve to be there in the first place , having got there on only because of the accident of their birth into a dalit household.

Compete with us - the upper caste hindus - who you hate so much on an equal basis if you want respect. Try to get something you want without the aid of reservations. Until then , you are just shit.

Dost-Mittar....you are such an idiot. I dont give a f-uck about hindu society. Hindu society , hindu religion can f-uck itself for all I care. I care about jobs and college seats. Over 50% of which are not available to me because they are reserved for scheduled caste , scheduled tribes and other backward castes. Soon reservations will also be introduced in the private sector. What that means is that a dalit with a score of 60% in his entrance exams will have better chances of landing a given seat than me even if I get 90%. Most upper caste hindus who live in India and compete for seats in colleges or jobs feel the same way as I do about these lucky bhangis. I`m surprised you are not aware of this. Please dont make a display of your ignorance.

Re: #23 by Dost Mittar

[It relies instead on the real and imagined historical grievances against a minority which is no longer powerful. It is more akin to German nazis than Al Qaeda.]

Could you list out some of these ``imagined`` grievances?

German Nazis killed MILLIONS of Jews. In spite of the fact that Jews NEVER ruled over or oppressed them.

RSS never killed ANY muslims. In spite of the fact that the Muslims HAVE ruled over Hindus for centuries. And oppressed them like few few people have been oppressed.

Think a little before posting.

Ranger#30:

Are you sure you are a young Kannadiga? Your attitude is more like that of my father`s generation. If you are indeed young and if even 10% of upper caste hindus think like you, then the Hindu society is still in deep dodo.

#36 Kaalchakra, Ajeya

I have challenged this nakli dalit several times to discuss the real issues concerning dalits today: violence from neighbors and other historically backward groups, lack of education and disinterest from dalit organizations in education (after a years search I have only found one dalit organization that seeks funds for dalit education).

Needless to say he has never answered me and never will. Because his interest is only in vomiting out garbage from manu smriti and dalitstan.org. All this is just a crude way of practicing identity politics and baiting indians. Unfortunately it is popular in india and elsewhere as a way to create ``vote banks`` and as a way to create extreme divisions between people. SO this loser thinks its a wonderful thing....

I condemn posters who are losing their temper with nakli dalit and then resorting to unacceptable name calling concerning dalits. Don`t let this individual dignify himself by pretending to speak for the long suffering and struggling dalits. He does not. He is a just a plain old Arundhati Roy/Bal Thackaeray/Togadia type of scoundrel. Treat him accordingly!

This ``Dalit`` and ``googlymoogly`` are more interested in the ``ummah`` agenda than any ``Dalit`` cause.. :-))

I have close ``Dalit`` friends, and relatives and they are all fine and dandy to goto temples / et married according to `hindu`` rituals, send their kids for ``bharathanatyam`` classes..

Few ``upper caste`` bigots in this forum spit out their venom, and these guys jump to the conclusion that ``All liberal Hindus are racist``. and repeat the assertion that ``people say they are not casteist and the next line they abuse Dalits``. First of all Hindus who don`t believe in castes / caste discrimination are not the ones who abuse ``Dalits``. They are just a bunch of ``upper caste`` morons and their numbers are dwindling rapidly..

Now your agenda seems like to pit the ``dalits`` against the ``caste hindus``. I`m fine with that. Any place any group is discriminated, they have to fight. But don`t confuse that with ``ummah`s`` agenda. Still no one either ``googlymoogly`` or ``Dalit`` has responded to my question as to why the ``Dalit`` leader Mayavati, who was against ``Manuvadi`` system is actively wooing Brahmins now.. or had campaigned for the ``pet hate`` figure of the ``secularists`` Mr. Modi..

Ajeya

We don`t want to fall into Mr. nonDalit/googlymoogly`s trap.

The reasons for the lower math grades of dalit students (if they are lower) have to be environmental, including the absence of long-standing family/community academic traditions, and absence of adequate role models. Let`s remember, we forced that situation on our dalit sisters and brothers.

The point is that dalit problem is OUR problem, not Mr. nonDalit/googlymoogly`s, who have/has absolutely nothing to do with real dalits.

Re:#34

Actions speak louder than words.

Just a handful of middle- and upper-income Dalits (or even low-income dalits - like many academically brilliant low-income upper-caste hindu students) are perfectly free to prove all this wrong with excellent math grades.

Why don`t they?

Maybe blaming the upper-caste hindus forever (with college entrance reservations between 75-80% in many places, and many SC/STs in many high and well-paid positions in government) is infinitely more convenient?

Instead of talking a lot, produce some brain surgeons who graduate by competing fairly (high marks on the exams) and some top-notch mathematicians/scientists.