Secular Army

romair/02, the record of this instruction, that the Pakistani Armed Forces were going to use religion as a litmus test, exists.

I am not saying this was good, bad, whatever.

Furthermore:-

1) I did not use the word ``restriction``, you did.

2) There are more than 2000 documented cases of Armed Forces officers of all religions, including Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, Parsees, who hailed from what is today Pakistan & Bangladesh, changing over to India in and around 1947.

3) There is not one case of a non-Muslim Armed Forces officer doing the reverse, from what is today India changing over to Pakistan.

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The instruction to replace a Hindu officer with a Muslim officer leading the parade for the first unfurling of the Pakistani flag by Shri Jinnah on 14th of August `47 is the main reason that I was born an Indian. Not only can I point you to that instruction but I can also point you to the families of both officers involved in Karachi on 14th of August 1947.

Please understand, I say this without any acrimony or dual meanings. The winds of fate could have made you an Indian too, as easily as they made me.

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Re: # 7

`the first unfurling of the Pakistani flag by Shri Jinnah on 14th of August `47 is the main reason that I was born an Indian.`

Where exactly did Shri Jinnah shove the Pakistani flag-pole on 14th of August `47.. for you to be conceived as an Indian? How come there`s no acrimony about all this??

`at least we can travel freely within India. Barring the odd natural or man-made disaster. How many other countries can make this simple statement?`

What does this mean???? Russia, Canada, US, Brazil, China, Bangladesh, Nepal etc.. can`t make this simple statement?

``That this did not happen in India is probably the best contribution made to Independent India by those who wear uniforms. And for what it is worth, which is a lot, it is a great contribution to Independent India that those who do not wear uniforms and may be communal themselves, made sure that those in uniform remained secular, too. ``

Agreed!! Well said.........................but attempts have always been made by the communalists to communalize the ranks................however, by and large the officers appear to be very secular in their views......

Re: # 6

``but attempts have always been made by the communalists to communalize the ranks.``

can you please elaborate? Any eg.

#4, {``yup..ahead of India that has launched it`s own satellite...``}

So that`s what you call Temporal when he had too much bhang and accidentally strayed into India? :)

thank you arjun

#2 by Romair on August 24, 2005 11:54am PT


Why does every article on India have to mention Pakistan?


Looks who`s talking...

when El-Presidente congratulated paki space scientists when they took charge of a beat-up hughes piece of junk, he told everyone in Pakiland that Pakiland was now ahead of India is space tech.....yup..ahead of India that has launched it`s own satellite...

Why does every article on India have to mention Pakistan? I have never been able to figure that out. To me anytime one mentions someone else to point out something about one`s self, it is a sign of under-confidence. For example, if someone thinks their wife is good-looking, all they need to say is, ``My wife is good-looking.`` Not, ``My wife is good-looking, because your`s is ugly.`` The former shows confidence, the later shows under-confidence........

``That Jinnah`s instructions for the introduction of religion as a litmus test for remaining in the Pakistan Armed Forces at the inaugural ceremonies in Karachi on the 14th of August 1947 was part of such a dream was visible very soon.``

Could you point me to the speech. I was unaware of any such restriction..........

Re: # 2

Romair:

````That Jinnah`s instructions for the introduction of religion as a litmus test for remaining in the Pakistan Armed Forces at the inaugural ceremonies in Karachi on the 14th of August 1947 was part of such a dream was visible very soon.``

Could you point me to the speech. I was unaware of any such restriction.......... ``

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This incident was reported in ``Freedom at Midnight`` by lapierre and Collins. Jinna wanted all the non-Muslims out of the Pakistani army.. While in India, people in the army are given a choice, in Pakistan there was no choice for non-Muslims. Actually an incident in which an accidental firing by a Sikh soldier (I believe resulted in no injuries/death) in a Sikh regiment based in Pakistan started off a rumor that the departing Sikh regiments are killing Muslims, and that resulted in large scale killing of Hindus/Sikhs.. Actually I think rumors killed a lot of folks..

Re: # 2
//...Why does every article on India have to mention Pakistan?...//

because Veeresh loves to f!nger you pakis.....Now watch the pakis do the monkey-dance!!!

Veeresh, {``And for what it is worth, which is a lot, it is a great contribution to Independent India that those who do not wear uniforms and may be communal themselves, made sure that those in uniform remained secular, too.``}

Thank you for sharing such positive thoughts with all of us. Armed forces can be an insurance against tyranny or a cause of it. India, as you correctly pointed out, has been very fortunate in this regard. However, I think it is much more than mere dumb luck. It is the very difficult commitment to tolerance, that Indians have painstakingly safeguarded, that creates the climate for this cherished outcome. Even Indira`s ``emergency`` in the 70s was not able to convince the military to change its time-honored role.

Tolerance for dissent and respect for individual rights are the twin pillars that protect civilized societies from the onslaught of fascism, militarism, and theocratic rule. Just look at Chowk, for example. You once noted, some years ago, that Chowk was a meeting place of all sorts of characters with freedom to say what`s on their minds. The sad fact is that the opposite is true. Chowk is an oligarchy of favored interactors, Chowk Staff pets, and selected ``brahmins.`` When dissenters are discovered, they are tagged, deleted, and finally banned with insidious attempts to ban them from even accessing the website. In real life, these Chowkmasters would have resorted to threats, arrest, exile, and if necessary death.

Yes, I do appreciate India much more since coming to Chowk. More than its economic strides, more than its movies, more than its military might, more than its numerous beautiful tourist destinations, I admire India`s commitment to tolerance, fairness, and freedom of speech. Jai Hind. :)

Salim