Seemingly, God is Angry at America

It`s nice to know that an American, let alone a person living in Detroit would have such hatred for America. It`s ironic. You need to leave America and go back where you came from!

Tell me, does god hate pakistan more than America? The Katrina death toll is just over a thousand, yet in Pakistan today, tens of thousands have died in an earthquake.

I`m going to take you at your word. God punishes people who are bad. You called on a human sacrifice in your last paragraph. As you say, God must be angry. Maybe he is angry that Pakistan harbors so many terrorists? America is a blessed country. God willing it will stay that way without all of the hatred.

Delhiwala, Romair

Two kinds of understandings must be developed. One must learn to see commonalities across groups. This makes a person human. One must also learn to see key differences between groups. That keeps a person from turning into a blind fool.

Re: # 121
Romair,
I did your article, maybe there is a disconnect in my aprehension.
On twice reading your both posts, I do not see them connected but I do agree in gererality with your post.

Difference as I see it is:
Powerful wants to dominate others at all costs, I agree.
Strong suppresses weak, I agree
Rich oppresses poor, I agree

But none of them derive there reasoning from religous ideology.
In Islam, Jihad is Hiilal against the Non-Believer, that is why it is officialy sanctified.

Neither Bible(old/new testaments), Torah, any Hindu or Sikh book says that your objective is to bring non believers into your faith.

That was my basic point. I try very hard to not reach at conclusions on the DESI rivalry basis.

Please help me to understand if what I said is innacurate and how?

delhiwalla #117: I don`t think you understood my reply. Perhaps because you were only looking for the word, ``Islam`` in it...........

My reply was a generic reply, discussing the philosophies of religion, athiesm, secularism and anything else, one clings onto to answer life`s questions. I only emphasised Islam, because that is a religion I follow. However, I was discussing religions of all variety.........You will need to get out of a South Asian thinking frame, and free yourself of local and even historical politics to understand this.........

Any group, of any religion, that is the strongest in the world, will kill the most people. Such societies tend to be progressive internally, due to which they are successful, and villlaneous to the poeple they conquere. The USA is one of the most progressive countries, domestically, in the world. Yet it easily kills the most people in the world, in other countries, also. Go talk to any South American or Arab if you don`t believe. This is not because the USA is Christian. It is because that is how any superpower, of any faith, operates.........

If you think the story of South Asia is nothing but a story of Muslim killings, then I am afraid you need to re-read the history books. It is the story of any powerful group - Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Sikh etc. - killing anyone they could. Do read what Ashoka did in his battles. Or the famines the British created in Bangladesh. Do you think the Hindu rajas fighting each other were a bastion of civility?

Similarly, in todays world, whomever is powerful is killing more of the, ``other.`` There are more Muslims being killed by people of other faiths, today, than vice versa. I can give you exact statistics, if you like. Look what was done to the Jews, by the Christians. They almost wiped them off the map of the world. Jews thrived in Spain, under Muslim rule. How many Jews (or Muslims) are in Spain, now? Compare that to the number of Hindus in India now? Isabella took Spain a mere 35 years before Babur took parts of India, and hundreds of years after Muslims took India. Yet within a century, Muslims and Jews were wiped out in Spain..........

But all this is a moot debate. Anyone of any religion or philosophy, will dominate others, if they can. The religion or philosophy, has nothing to do with it. The human desire to dominate another, is a very strong force, independent of religion, or athiesm or secularism. A disproportionaly high amount of violence in the past 50 years has been carried out by athiest and secular countries. Violence is oblivious to all such concepts.

So some of the most progressive societies in history were Muslim. As were some of the most regressive. This goes for all religions. And will continue to happen.........

One can thus remain caught in one`s biases towards other religions, and towards other philosophies - religious or non-religious. Or one can try to search for answers, with an open mind, outside the boundaries of time and space i.e. forget about what you are seeing now, or your own locality and biases, and try to logically find answers to questions of life............

delhiwalla #117: I don`t think you understood my reply. Perhaps because you were only looking for the word, ``Islam`` in it...........

My reply was a generic reply, discussing the philosophies of religion, athiesm, secularism and anything else, one clings onto to answer life`s questions. I only emphasised Islam, because that is a religion I follow. However, I was discussing religions of all variety.........You will need to get out of a South Asian thinking frame, and free yourself of local and even historical politics to understand this.........

Any group, of any religion, that is the strongest in the world, will kill the most people. Such societies tend to be progressive internally, due to which they are successful, and villlaneous to the poeple they conquere. The USA is one of the most progressive countries, domestically, in the world. Yet it easily kills the most people in the world, in other countries, also. Go talk to any South American or Arab if you don`t believe. This is not because the USA is Christian. It is because that is how any superpower, of any faith, operates.........

If you think the story of South Asia is nothing but a story of Muslim killings, then I am afraid you need to re-read the history books. It is the story of any powerful group - Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Sikh etc. - killing anyone they could. Do read what Ashoka did in his battles. Or the famines the British created in Bangladesh. Do you think the Hindu rajas fighting each other were a bastion of civility?

Similarly, in todays world, whomever is powerful is killing more of the, ``other.`` There are more Muslims being killed by people of other faiths, today, than vice versa. I can give you exact statistics, if you like. Look what was done to the Jews, by the Christians. They almost wiped them off the map of the world. Jews thrived in Spain, under Muslim rule. How many Jews (or Muslims) are in Spain, now? Compare that to the number of Hindus in India now? Isabella took Spain a mere 35 years before Babur took parts of India, and hundreds of years after Muslims took India. Yet within a century, Muslims and Jews were wiped out in Spain..........

But all this is a moot debate. Anyone of any religion or philosophy, will dominate others, if they can. The religion or philosophy, has nothing to do with it. The human desire to dominate another, is a very strong force, independent of religion, or athiesm or secularism. A disproportionaly high amount of violence in the past 50 years has been carried out by athiest and secular countries. Violence is oblivious to all such concepts.

So some of the most progressive societies in history were Muslim. As were some of the most regressive. This goes for all religions. And will continue to happen.........

One can thus remain caught in one`s biases towards other religions, and towards other philosophies - religious or non-religious. Or one can try to search for answers, with an open mind, outside the boundaries of time and space i.e. forget about what you are seeing now, or your own locality and biases, and try to logically find answers to questions of life............

Re: # 112
Delhiwala:

I suggest you watch an excellent TV series that BBC produced and called ``Connection`` and James Burke narrated it. This series shows many important connections in the technological development. Including how gun powder, and printing technology was taken from China and how Europeans developed it. They took more than THAPPA-CHAPPA, they took ``ink`` as well, which by the way had origin in India. This goes to prove that technology cannot be contained by nation-state borders.

Anil Kapuria

Re: # 118
Thank You for correcting me.
Howcome Chinese don`t seek claim on first printing press. OTH, Gun Powder is rightfully credited to Chines. Kuch Samaj Nahee aya????

dehliwala: actually, sirjee, i think i got it right (this time at least). :-) i.e., i googled on ``Printing Press`` and found this in wikipedia: ``The printing press is a mechanical device for printing multiple copies of a text on rectangular sheets of paper. It was first invented in China in 1041. It was reinvented in the West by a German goldsmith and eventual printer, Johann Gutenberg in the 1450s. Apart from Gutenberg, the Dutch Laurens Janszoon Coster has also been credited with this invention.`` Printing Press

but your broader point is valid i think (as i mentioned in my previous note) - the printing press had very little impact on China whereas it changed europe (and thus the world) when the same thing was (re)invented in europe a half-millenium later. This is true for other chinese inventions/developments too - thus, chinese built giant ocean-faring ships starting around 600 AD i think which were bigger and travelled further than anything Columbus or Vasco de Gama had. However, given the nature of european vs chinese society and political structure (as i mentioned earlier), the europeans used their tiny vessels to circumnavigate the globe and colonize the decadent empires (including the subcontinent) whereas the chinese - they simply prohibited ocean voyages after second Ming emperor (Xu Di) died around 1423 i think.

Thus, regardless of anything else - it is the decentralized european society vs the monolithic societies of the rest of the world (chinese, indian, ottoman) that put europe as the flagbearers of human progress the past few centuries.

Re: # 115
Romair,
Nobody doubts the intentions of Quran and its message. Below is my understanding that is derived after having numerous meetings with interfaith participants including Episcopalian, Ecumenical, Catholic, Hindu, Sikh, Jain as Non Muslim - and Egyptian, Iranian, Turkish, Iraqis, Bangladeshi and some Pakistanis as Muslim representatives. I have no disrespect for Islam or Muslims but below is my summary of what I gathered factually while trying very hard to not let my families personal anguish at Partition.

Issues for Islam as seen by Non Muslims:

1) Behavior of Muslims and their subjugations of other cultures under the name of Islam. Despite what you are taught to believe, Islam is not an Indian religion and came into India with the defeat of local Kings and India`s existing culture at that time. People of Sind or Afghanistan did not run towards Islam seeking enlightment. There was rape and plunder to convert people into Islam at all costs. None of the Islamic countries have any Non-Muslims populace of any significance left. No plularism at all.

2) Even if we ignore the first point and categorize it as bygone era, most of the Non Muslim world(not just India), looks at Islamic countries as mentally backward that deprives its people of progress, this reputation precedes Americas invasions or any other modern day wars or media monopoly. This belief was written extensively during seventeenth century when colonial scouts were sent from Western countries. Majority of the world is on a path of Democratic type of governments, none of the Islamic countries have an elected govt (for the people, by the people model, there might be one exception here).

3) Many of the Shariat Fiqahs and Hadiths sound very unbelievable in the modern day world; even some Muslim scholars doubt them. When every Muslim country ruled by dictators promises that Shariat would be the role model, Non Muslims wonder what is next.

Romair, You cannot alienate Quran from Shariat and that is why we will have wars and civilizational conflicts. All the stories of Al-Khwarmi, and other famous Arab mathematicians will not redeem Islamic masses. There is more need of Islamic revival and if Islam has compassion or peace in its name then it has to show to non-believers.

Kulharee#114

you are a sick little basta.....I am starting to doubt that Tahmed may be correct in identifying you as Indian.

Anil #106: ``Interestingly, it was then in the Christian world. Now the Bible is just a Bible to many to God`s message others, and majority will still call them Christians. The question that comes to my non-muslim mind is can this ever happen in muslim world? I know it has happened in my world, I cannot say about the others.``

Hindvi`s comment is quite accurate.........

The revolution you are referring to, is actually one of the things that led to the creation of Islam. Islam, itself, was such a revolution. I will attempt to look at it from a, ``non-Muslim`` mind. So let`s assume Islam is a man-made phenomenon/philosophy, like non-Muslims believe, and analyze the basics, which it proposed.

Islam is quite unique, in the sense, that it removes the concept of clergy, from religion. There is no clergy in Islam. No one, in Islam, can claim any kind of power or status, based on their religious knowledge. No one, in Islam, is allowed to pass any religious ruling that is binding on anyone. There is no priest, cardinal or pope. And there are no brahmins.

Granted, over time, various clergy-based hierarchies have tried to establish, themselves, in Islam. And have done so successfully. But their power comes from their followers, not from Islam itself. This is why, Islamic history never faced the problems that Christian history faced. No pope was able to gain the kind of power that Christian popes were able to acquire. Because, any Muslim could go to such an individual and tell him to get lost........While in Christianity, the religion, itself, authorized the pope to have such power. Hence going against the pope was going against religion. While, in Islam, the opposite is true. Accepting a pope is going against the religion.

There is thus, no religious beauracracy in Islam. It is basically you and God, with no one in between. Islam does not belong to a priest. Nor is it to be interpreted by the priest. There is no priest. Or everyone is a priest, is another way to put it.

Islam is, thus, a religoin that is actually for the Shudars and the Dalits. In essence it established their authority over the Brahmins in the social structure, of Arabia. And it got rid of the Popes and the priests, in the religious structure. Not a single one of the founders of Islam was a priest. It was founded and run by the equivalent of businessmen, stock brokers, soldiers, beurecrats, shopkeepers, professors, shepherds and venture capitalists of its time.........

This is the stage that Christianity reached, after its reformation..........

This is probably why you will find so many Muslims who feel quite comfortable in Islam, and in the world, simultaneously (though they won`t be shown on CNN and FOX). This is also why you will find so many Muslims who approach life from completely opposing manners, yet consider themselves Muslims. This is also why you will hardly ever find a Muslim who leaves the religion. Including women. One would think that if Islam was the biggest problem for Muslim women, so many of them, specifically the ones in North America, would have switched their religion. But they don`t. This is also why, while your friend places the Quran in a respecful corner, others read it while lying down on their couch........

If someone converts to Islam today, they can go lead the prayers for the largest congregation of Muslims in Kaaba tomorrow. Since their is no hierarchy. I can denounce any ruling by any Islamic set of, ``ulema,`` if I want to. In fact, I am a Muslim, even though, I have not been to a mosque in seven years. And I openly disagree with so much of the Islamic jurisprudence, and do so openly on this site. I study religions, specifically Islam, as a philosophy, and do so in the comfort of a Barnes and Noble.......I still remain a Muslim....

I think people take very short-sighted views on religion, secularism, athiesm and life, in general. One has to look for answers in life. Athiesm certainly does not answer some of the most important questions, in life. Neither does religion, for that matter. Neither does science. One can ignore these anomolies, and be ignorantly comfortable in one`s religion, or atheism (or secularism), and assume one has found all the answers to life. When infact, one is simply disregarding the tough questions. Or one can continously search for answers.........

Rest assured, there is far more to Islam, then your friend washing up to read the Quran. Just like there is far more to Hinduism than your grandmother taking off her shoes to pray. To truly begining to understand any philosophy, one has to disconnect one`s self from local politics, world events - all of whom are presented in very biased manners. One has to even separate ones self from even time and space. And one has to stop making direct comparisons between religions. For example, secularism never appeared in Islam, because there was no Church, hence no separation of Church and State.........

The world is filled with far too many individuals, who feel they have found the, ``right`` answer - be it through religion, secularism, athiesm, or anything else. What the world needs are more individuals who are willing to search for the answer......

When I was in my early 20s, I almost became an athiest. My wife was seriously considering becoming a Bhuddhist, a while back. I never once attempted to stop her. Interestingly over time, I settled on what one could call a, ``philosophically-inclined`` Muslim, as opposed to an ideologically-inclined one, i.e. Islam hasn`t answered all my questions, but it has answered more than anything else i have been able to find (including some, that science has told me, it can never answer). Religion, for me starts, where science stops, i.e. where science cannot answer my questions (not my words; Dr Abdus Salam`s). Interestingly, over time, my wife settled on the same line, without my ever influencing her............

Who knows, in 20 years, we may be Hindus. But the aim should always be to continue the search and discovery process. The day one feels one has the final answer (be it through religion or athiesm), and others are stupid, is the day, one begins the journet on the road to ignorance..........

Re: # 113

While we are going off to a complete new tangent, can one of you guys explain who invented masturbation style where the right arm is pushed from underneath the right leg to perform jerking off. I heard it were Arabs. Any truth to that?

Re: # 112
Tahmed Sir,
I am not sure about this one.
Chinese had thappa/chappa style work bench.
Gutenberg had mechanical press. Ever wondered why Chinese do not question Gutenberg`s printing press as the first one.

anil: you are speaking to the converted when you say that the Quran has been reduced to being an icon by muslims, to be treated like an idol and not as a book to be read and understood. Surely God must be feeling very frustrated (as would any author in such circumstances). :-)

This is just one example of many where many muslims do exactly what they condemn in others - consider themselves a ``chosen people`` vs people of other faiths, bequeath de facto divinity to the prophet, bequeath de facto prophethood to various ``ulema`` through the centures, and to indulge in ``shirk`` every day when they go to pirs and so forth. These are all things that the Quran explicitly and strongly rejects. The one thing they dont do (and which too many ``secular`` pakistanis (including their ``moderate`` presidents) dont do either is what is central to the Quranic message - take individual responsibilty to distinguish between right and wrong and act accordingly.

delhiwala: minor correction - Gutenberg was German, not Swiss. Also, chinese did invent the movable type printing press about 500 years before Gutenberg by a Chinese gentleman named Bi Sheng I think. However, the chinese press did not have the same impact on chinese society that guteberg`s did in european society (where it basically broke the monopoly of the priesthood over the written word, and brought knowledge to the common man). The reason for this is said to be the fact that the chinese alphabet has about 3000 letters compared to 26 that gutenberg`s press had to play with. Also i think the overall nature of chinese society (large monolothic empire) vs european society (``decentralized`` into kingdoms, where men could simply switch allegiances if one king tried to bully them) had a much bigger role in the failure of the chinese society to benefit from the creative genius of individual chinese. I do think anil goes too far in saying that the west ``stole`` the invention from the chinese - and even if it did, that is a good thing and should be called ``learned`` fromt the chinese just as the rest of the world has been learning from the west (whether it likes it or not) for the past several centuries.

Re: # 106
What CRAP?
Daru pee rakhee hai kiya?

Swiss invented the printing press and duplicator not Chinese. Chinese had thappa, Gutenburg had real printing press.

kapuria saab

The chinese used block printing where as guttenburg`s press was a mechanical type set, there was some copying of technology but even that cant be called ``stealing`` since
a) the technology was not identical
b)there were no intellectual property laws.

Secondly the reformation occured
a)due to the church`s exclusive control over religous life and interpretation and more importantly the church men`s decadence in a materialistic life with huge ownership of land and absolving of sins in exchange for material returns etc which disgusted many. in Islam the clergy never had that kind of institutionalisation, power or decadence.

b)secondly and more importantly the reformation ocurred because a section of temporal power in the form of some kings and princes supported it for wordly reasons such as wresting political power from the church or capturing church land or as in the case of henry the VIII a combination of the above and his libido.

Paraphrasing Holmes, `` When you have rejected the obvious by process of elimination, then what is left, however improbable, is the truth``

Mr. Gill has raised the question , asked countless times before. we have it on Tahmad`s personal assurance that God is all knowing and all powerful. From what has been happening, as noted astuely by many others, the `improbable` conclusions are:

1. There is no God no matter how many times Zeena tells us otherwise.

2. There are more than one God or Godess and there is an ongoing fight among them. Sometimes Allah has Ram Lalla`s neck in his hand and sometimes Wahiguru does nasty things to Allah.

Dear Mohammad: Anytime there is word `God` on Chowk, you can count on Tahmad to set up his Chabri of Qurans and hawk his version of religiosity and piety. He is very predictable. He has told off all the Mullahs, Naqahbaandi, Urstruly, Hamidm, Firangikush, Zeena and now you to stay off his turf. He and he alone is the right spokesperson for Islam and Allah. Good to see that Zeena has agreed with him. She does make him look like Einstein.

Re: # 102

Tahmed:

It was printing press technology that the Europeans stole from China and brought to Europe, that led to the reformation of the Church. Jesuits used to control access to hand written manuscripts, and had fought to not allow mass printing of Bible.

They were worried of purity of God`s message much the same way not just Mullahs, but majority of muslims get concerned about Quran the book. Even in chowk, I have read posters who question others when they have not read Quran in Arabic.

Interestingly, Christian reformers saw this position of the Church as the contradiction, and as that the Church had created a symbol out of the Bible. Again much like, I see Quran in my friends home in one sacred corner. I ponder the difference between this ``idol`` and the ``idols`` my grand mother used to pray. The only difference, I observed was that in my friend he did not walk to that area bare foot. Since I was so used to my grandmothers discipline that I tried to remove my shoes, and he saw me doing that and said there was no need. Whereas my grand mother would have ensured that I removed shoes and washed my hands before entering that area at home.

Interestingly, it was then in the Christian world. Now the Bible is just a Bible to many to God`s message others, and majority will still call them Christians. The question that comes to my non-muslim mind is can this ever happen in muslim world? I know it has happened in my world, I cannot say about the others.

Anil

tahmed
Yes, you are absolutely right.

#100 dullabhatti
It looks like, you did not understand my response , clearly.
OK, let me explain, Quran teaches all humans ( not only muslims b/c Quran is a universal holy message from God) to discover the universe. western world is doing , exactly what Quran said centuries ago. I hope I am clear, now.

God says, I created this universe for humans. Now , your job is to discover it and then ultimately discover me . God is the centre of the whole universe, this central super power is holding this universe in it`s place . This is what I strongly believe.
God created universe as a gift for us to open it`s mysteries which are unlimited and ultimately reach that extreme power,called creator of all creatures.

in #102 it should be Martin Luther only. not ML King (different guy, different century). :-)

Zeena: mullahs have always been there to misguide people. Mullahs are like the priests of europe who for centuries resisted the translation of the Bible from Latin to vernacular languages, since this way they could tell the people whatever they wanted to say rather than having the people read the Bible for themselves. It was the translation of the Bible into english (by John Wycliffe in the 14th century) and later again by William Tyndale, that formed the roots of the the christian reformation led by Martin Luther King. And thus gave rise to modern western civilization that has changed the world.

I think this is an instructive example - only when muslims stop looking to shariah-mongerers, mullahs and maudoodi other self-proclaimed spokesmen for God and start using their heads and reading the Quran will they finally stop quarelling with everyone and become part of the modern world.

dullabhatti: what are you talking about, my friend?

#99 Yes,again I am in total agreement with you on this. West is now discovering the universe, which is written in Quran for Muslims.

---

and supposedly all the pious ones like yourself had visited these places in the universe 800 years ago. tell us Al Armstrogani how your trip to Mars in 1209 go? any research data to share?

tahmed32
Yes,again I am in total agreement with you on this. West is now discovering the universe, which is written in Quran for Muslims. Muslims in their earlier times were acting exactly like this and inventing new scientific inventions. Now, west has started adopting all such strategies..........That is why they are so, much progressive. Muslims now a days are misguided by Mullahs who are not only hijacking true Islam, are creating new kind of distorted Islam or something else......I believe these ignorant mullahs are the main root of all devlish deeds . True Islam is progressive. Arabic culture has got nothing to do with Islam. Unfortunately, arabs are also main reason of destroying true Islam by regressing in their characters. They are just lazy animals.......

Zeena: Did God create mankind so it may ignore this world and instead spend time admiring God and asking for small favors like chamchas in a king`s court? I think not.

As the Quran says, is so man could learn about His Creation (in other words, educate himself and further his scientific knowledge). Much better to love His creation all around us, I think: the blue skies, clouds, people, all sorts of animals, the seashore, wildflowers, stars, gamma rays, galaxies, the strange world of sub-atomic particles and strings, things like that. And to further one`s knowledge of these things, which is exactly what the West has been doing the past 500 years, and which muslims still show very little interest in (i.e. science and education).

(just something to think about).

#70 tahmed32
tahmed
Thats OK. I understand your point, now.
Let me tell you about my firm belief. I strongly believe, that there is one super power who is the creator and who controls all the universe. Who watches each one of us for oue good and bad deeds. Yes, Allah listens to our prayers and answers them.Allah is the creator, we are Allah`s creatures, we have to submit ourselves in front of that super power,who is not asking for our begging/pleading or flattering. We have to call Allah in times of troubles and in times of happiness to show Allah our submission and our obedience.

I pray to Allah selflessly with out any reward. I love Allah and will always do.

delhiwala: it is not my concept. this logically flows from the basic message of the Quran, namely that God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and i am simply pointing that out. this is a no-brainer (except to too many muslims, for whom the bar is set too high when presented with a no-brainer). ;-)

Despite being a bit of a religious nutcase myself, I can appreciate ironies of this article. It seems to take a satirical look at religious zealots … who at times interpret natural disasters as signs of divine wrath. Some of the satire is directed towards political leadership … who at times have displayed “zealot” tendencies, as described above.

The issue is not limited to US leadership, or Christians for that matter … but it has found its way into Quran and hence mainstream Muslim thought as well. How is one supposed to explain Quranic accounts … where divine wrath descended upon rebellious people … who were overtaken by earthquakes, floods, sandstorms … etc??

If a person accepts divine origins and truthfulness of Quran … how can he tell plain natural disasters from divine retribution? Who is to make such a judgment and on what basis? To what extent does God interfere in human affairs … beyond which he watches the drama like a casual, uninterested spectator?

hamidm (#59),

It seems that god, as well as google are held all too sacred. What else can be expected from one who remains preoccupied with self-aggrandized activity of worrying about the future of mankind? Sahib has a lot on him mind … give him a break …

tahmed,

You’ve missed the point of the article, and are forcing your narrow interpretation on it before knocking it down.

On another note, Quran does encourage believers to implore Allah for His blessings. One example that comes to mind is that of durood sheriff … where believers implore Allah to bless the people of Muhammad.

Before you jump to conclusions, note that I am not validating Allah moving mountains and parting oceans for believers. Divine intervention may be in the form of thoughts planted in a person’s mind, that navigate him out of harm’s way. This may be achieved without violating any physical laws. There are ways to interpret Quran … and it is a bit absurd to quickly label as unislamic something that can be traced back to Quran …

Re: # 90
Tahmed Yaar, I do know about the sacrifice of Ishmael/Isaac and Abrahim`s story, I went to catholic school.

But it is certainly a custom not religious obligation. Poor bakra used to be a Lamb in Arabia or a Camel. Anyways, tell us more about your newage concept.

I have heard from some Middle Eastern Muslim Alam-Ullema that bakra sacrifice is not that important but rather remembering it. Whereas a U.P Muslim(ex friend)was ready to halal me when I mentioned this to him. That is why I wanted to hear majority position on this majmoon.

Re: # 88

>>>>>>#82 ``Greek Myths were only for the living lives `` i guess you need to register at your local community college for classes in Greek Mythology 101. What about Hades (Lord of the Underworld), the River Styx that you crossed after death to enter the Underworld ruled over by Hades? and guarded by the three headed dog Cerebrus?

As for the 72 hoors, rest assured this is nothing compared to the action in Greek Mythology. Read e.g. the details concerning the courting of Hera (goddess of marriage) by Zeus (who used his godly powers to change shape and catch her at an unsuspecting moment), and other exploits of Greek gods and goddesses.<<<<<


Tahmed32, Let me tell you something that has been kept a big secret: no one practices ancient Greek religion anymore. Paul boy converted em all in Corenth some while ago. I swear on the body of the guy (PBUH) who took Pegasus to skies and back. Don’t tell it to anyone. OK?

Is it true that some guy will descend from skies and land on the white minaret in Damascus and raise hell? I hope he lands safely and the pointy minaret doesn’t go up his ass and it is a smooth landing. How is that Islam 101 for you?

dm: please dont make me a prophet. seems like by and large they had terrible family lives, their neighbors hated them, and God tested them with all sorts of problems.

delhiwala: please do not question the patwari. if he gets mad at you, he will change the land records and all your inherited lands will become someone else`s property.

delhiwala: In the Quran, the bakra sacrifice basically has to do with Abraham`s willingness to sacrifice his son at God`s command. While this and other rituals are much played upon in hadith, it is by no means a major theme of the Quran.

More relevant to what I was saying, the Quran emphasizes that God is all-knowing etc. and as such what i wrote logically follows.

dw#84:

Only prophet tahmed can answer your question. :-)

#82 ``Greek Myths were only for the living lives `` i guess you need to register at your local community college for classes in Greek Mythology 101. What about Hades (Lord of the Underworld), the River Styx that you crossed after death to enter the Underworld ruled over by Hades? and guarded by the three headed dog Cerebrus?

As for the 72 hoors, rest assured this is nothing compared to the action in Greek Mythology. Read e.g. the details concerning the courting of Hera (goddess of marriage) by Zeus (who used his godly powers to change shape and catch her at an unsuspecting moment), and other exploits of Greek gods and goddesses.

Muslims are thinking the same way Pandits thought when invaders mowed inhabitants and destroyed temples.

I would rather succumb to natural disaster than victimized by a man made follies.

Re: # 81

tahmed32:

``...and thus find peace of mind from the nitty-gritty problems of everyday life. ``

That`s why I used to come here, but then you came along to louse it all up.

Dude I seriously think you need a major shrinkmeister to get yourself documented. Please do let us know if he/she discovers something in your mind that he/she has to name after him or herself and get a patent royalty for the rest of his/her life.

We`d like to know SOMEONE to whom a whole new chapter of psychiatric medicine is devoted to....just to thank God in your honor more than anything else.

:-)~~

Re: # 74
Mr Patwari, who made you patwari when you failed to see his hidden attack on American Policies.

Re: # 77
DM Sir,
Does this new version Islam that you like would compel you to go for Sunnat.
I heard that it is very painful when done on adults.

No wonder St Paul converted millions of Jews in Christianity just by letting go of Chopping body parts.

Re: # 81
Tahmed, I knew that you used to be referred by names at chowk and there was something to do with newage Islam thought.
But today you have given a new insight to me.
Please shed some light on this Bakra wala majmoon:

Where does it say in Quran to eat a Bakra after the sacrifice on Eid? I could not locate it anywhere?

Re: # 81

>>>The ancient Greeks, of course, used to visualize their gods and godesses as being some kind of royalty who routinely messed with human affairs. That was part of their religion. But that is clearly not the way God is conceived in Islam.<<<

The difference between Greek Mythology and Islamic Mythology is that the Greek Myths were only for the living lives – Dianosis didn’t promise rivers of Wine for the afterlife, Poseidon didn’t come after you once you died. Unlike Islam, where you are promised 72 Hoors and rivers of milk and honey if you follow a certain way of life. I don’t see any difference between the two different views of Gods. The best is perhaps to follow the Greek Gods in this life and switch to Allah just before dying.

dost mittar #77 I can understand your skepticism when I wrote ``I just think it is unIslamic to think of the Creator as being an active participant in human affairs, and susceptible to interfering in human affairs if we please him sufficiently through prayers (i.e. begging and pleading and flattering), or through ``sacrifice`` (i.e. slaying and eating a bakra in His honor). The ancient Greeks used to think that gods messed with human affairs, and too many modern Pakistanis do the same.``

After all, prayers for God`s (or god`s) intervention in human affairs are considered an integral part of religion (any religion, not just Islam). A moment`s reflection would indicate though, that this amounts to telling God how to go about His business (e.g., to smite one`s enemies while ensuring good health and prosperity to one`s friends). This amounts to a rejection of the Quranic emphasis on the all-knowing nature of God. Who does Abdul think he is when he prays to God to make him a rich man like dost mittar (e.g.)? Would Abdul dream of telling his doctor not to give him bitter medicine but to give him a piece of candy instead?? This rejection of the Quranic message of the nature of God and His Creation is why I refer to such prayers as being unIslamic.

Thus, to my mind, the purpose of prayer is not to beg God for small (or big) favors, but to THANK God for favors already received (rather than taking them for granted), and to contemplate the grandeur of Creation and thus find peace of mind from the nitty-gritty problems of everyday life.

The ancient Greeks, of course, used to visualize their gods and godesses as being some kind of royalty who routinely messed with human affairs. That was part of their religion. But that is clearly not the way God is conceived in Islam.

Re: # 63
So You are not an American, why are you living with Godless Americans?

Inter-actors:

Some details of the FEMA`sslipshod response are coming out in the press. The following is an extract from FEMA`s ex-boss Brown.

Brown said he should have sought help more quickly from the Pentagon after Katrina hit, and expressed regret ``that he did not start screaming`` for the military`s involvement sooner. The first substantial numbers of active-duty troops responding to the Gulf Coast were sent on Sept. 3, five days after the storm hit.

In emergency situation as created by Katrina, the usual protocol as to whose responsibility it was to do what should have been shelved and relief measures put in place by FEMA.

Mohammad Gill

Re: # 70

Tahmed32 Sahib… do you not believe in Noah’s dinghy adventure? Yes, Hurricanes and Typhoons are God’s wrath on those who sin and go astray (they use back entry instead of knocking the front door). Denying the powers of God almighty is rejecting the most important Pillar of Islam. Talking about Pillars, I recently learnt that each one of the wings of the Pentagon is specifically dedicated to take care of each one of the 5 pillars of Islam.

This begs a question. What about the new 6th pillar of Islam (i.e., anti-Americanism). Do you think that the new Dept of Homeland Security is created just for that?

tahmed#70:

If I ever become religious, it would be to this strange religion you call Islam, which is defined as the essence of the quran as interpreted by prophet tahmed and not that other Arabian prophet who got several, sometimes conflicting messages from God.

Pakistan Red Crescent gives $50k for hurricane relief

Looks like they dont think these hurricanes are the wrath of God.

I have used fukc word in past so I am not going to use it again.

So this time



???? the God.

???? the Prophet.

???? the Holy Book

???? the avatars.

Respectfully submitted

Beraham Arstoo

wha gill shhib, excellent...we in pakistan also have to hear this kind of talk every time there is trouble in pureland. great insight, simple but potent.

Asmaan Pe Hai Khuda Aur Zameen Pe Humm
AAj Kal Wo Iss Taraf Dekhataa Hai Kumm
(Singer: Mukesh, Lyric: Kaifi ?I think)

Ghor Kaljug Aa Gayaa Hai, God Ko hurricanes Kee Zaroorat Pa.Dne Lagee Hai. Bhagwaan Hee Aise God Se Bachaaye.

Ek Minute, Ek Minute. ``Bachaaye`` word Se Mujhe Ek Aur Hindi Fillum Kaa Gaanaa Yaad Aa Gayaa: ``Allaa Bachaaye Naujawaanon Se``. (Thank you my free associating sleepy brain). Kyaa Naujawaan Kya Buddhe. Subb Baraabur.

-e

#66> sikhs may not be worshipping cows, but they have been protectors of cows.Nearly hundred Naamdhari sikhs( also called Kookas) sacrificed their lives protecting cows during british raj when they burnt down butcher houses in Amritsar and killed some butchers. They were bombed alive at Maler Kotla and they still believe that ``gaoo-ghareeb di rakhya`` (protection of cows and the poor) is duty of every sikh.

gill sahib: good wishes to you too, and i do not wish to belabor this issue with you. Instead, I look forward to your next article on science: btw, if you read today`s washington post (online) it has a great article on the implications of the decoding of a chimpanzees ``Book of Life`` (i.e. DNA) last month - i.e., in the process of doing so, scientists found yet another (and very powerful) proof of the theory of evolution. this was done by comparing the actual number of defective genes relative to non-defective genes found in a sampling of chimpanzees, and the resulting ratio was precisely the one predicted by the theory of evolution. i think you should read it.

Zeena: sorry if my response seemed abrupt, since that was not the intent. i have nothing but the highest regard for you (as i do for all chowkies as a matter of fact, even those with whom i heartily disagree), but the problem is in the nature of the medium which makes ones response seem more abrupt than intended.

Anyway, i in fact believe that there is a Creator. I just think it is unIslamic to think of the Creator as being an active participant in human affairs, and susceptible to interfering in human affairs if we please him sufficiently through prayers (i.e. begging and pleading and flattering), or through ``sacrifice`` (i.e. slaying and eating a bakra in His honor). The ancient Greeks used to think that gods messed with human affairs, and too many modern Pakistanis do the same.

#65 tahmed32
Well, my faith is my guide, my belief is my light. Yes, I do firmly believe that when such disasters happen, they are real messages for us,miserable and pathetic humans. Who in their ignorance lost their belief in ALLAH.

tahmed32
Please, believe your disbelief. Let me believe my belief. Rather I am embarrassed on your abrupt response on my true belief. You see,you are acting absolutely not your real self. tahmed, I know is really open hearted and broad visioned friend of mine, who lost his true faith on God with the passege of time. take care

tahmed32:

Your post # 67:

I had said that I try to keep my prejudices out of my articles. I`m a human being; I may not succeed all the time. Another thing, what I regard my transparent and unbiased views, another person may perceive them otherwise. This is particularly true of political and religious views. This also should not mean that I put myself under a self-imposed moratorium and not write a satirical essay now and then.

I didn`t mean to ridicule the natural and severely devastating hurricanes. I didn`t mean to exploit the sufferings of the hapless and poor victims of the hurricanes. If somebody got that impression from the article and jumped to the conclusion, that was his or her own perspective. These events are more or less predictable these days. The people holding the reins of power should take such predictions seriously and mobilize the preventive and relief efforts more expeditiously. If President Bush took the responsibility for the delayed response, there must be something to it. Wishing you well,

Mohammad Gill

gill sahib: but arent views - particularly if strongly held - just another form of prejudice?? since no man has access to all there is to know, any views we hold should be seen as prejudices of a kind.

delhiwala: glad to learn sikhs dont worship cows. actually, better to worship a cow than to worship money or power or dead pirs or living mullahs or maudoodi as many pakistanis do.

zeena: please get a grip on yourself. i just finished ridiculing exactly this theory on #64. your post is therefore very embarrassing.

jang #60 I rechecked, and it is even more interesting: earthquakes are caused because the earth his held up by four elephants standing on the back of a turtle. when one of these animals moves around, you have an earthquake.

at least this theory makes the same amount of sense as the theory that say ``allah allah`` all day will make allah favorably inclined to you. or the theory that by doing the hajj you wash away your sins and can return to building up your sins on a clean slate. or the theory that hurricanes in the US are caused because allah wants to teach bush a lesson. or the theory that 9/11 never took place, and if it did it was a US conspiracy.

M.Gill
Yes,God is angry with USA. I have always predicted that. This is time for them to repent. Or they should get ready for more natural disastors.

mr. gill,
i really enjoyed reading the interacts on this article. its a refreshing change from the pak-bashing and india-bashing that normally goes on. write more articles like this one.

why is everyone blaming God for katrina and rita? Ask any abdul it was Allah who did it.:-)

tahmed #53 .. why are you spreading baseless rumors? cow holding universe on its head in indooo mythology? please recheck.

gill sahib,

........ the reason a number of people don`t see the satire in your piece is because they consider god sacred ........ regardless of his obvious bufoonery, you are not allowed to make fun of him ........

Re: # 53
Thanks for the clarification.
FYI, Sikhs dont believe in Cow worship etc. As far as I am concerned Cow is used for Milching.
I do like this person`s articles otherwise but I was also taken aback by his tone in this one.

tahmed32:

I live in a world, as you also do, in which religion and politics are all intertwined. It will be unrealistic for me if I shut my eyes on current affairs. I have not written much on this topic (current affairs) here on chowk but I have written some pieces here and there. I do not write on Pakistani politics because I know so little of it. The U.S, is my country of choice and if I write about its politics and current affairs, it should not seem very strange. Many chowkies believe that since I usually write only on science issues, that somehow disqualifies me to express my views on some other topics.

I will like to say one thing though. Whatever I write, is not out of malice and I try to keep my own prejudices (not my views) out of it. Wishing you well,

Mohammad Gill

Gill sahib: whatever you say, boss. just please dont blend ``conventional religious beliefs`` with politics in future.

In any case, if the mixing of religion with politics in the US could be measured in spoonfuls, the mixing of religion with politics can be measured by the truckload in Pakistan. But i dont see you or any other pakistani doing a ``satire`` by pointing to some flood in Pakistan as being divine retribution for mixing politics with religion in Pakistan, or for some misplaced government policies (of which again we have truckloads in Pakistan compared to the US).

tahmed32:

A satire doesn`t always please everyone otherwise it`s not satire. Again attribution of human misery to divine retribution is not my creation. It`s part of human belief, may not be yours. You had noted the last paragraph of the article; such attribution is historical.

The article is not a reflection of my personal beliefs. It`s a blend of conventional religious beliefs, current politics and there is hardly any science in it. With regards,

Mohammad Gill

Gill Sahib: While it is OK to say that what you wrote is a satire, to be honest that does seem a stretch to call your article a satire.

However, even if your article is a satire of Bush`s religious pronouncements, I still think it is in very bad taste to attribute human misery to Divine Retribution.

delhiwala #50 sir jee, I dont think hurricanes are caused by Allah to signal disapproval of government policies (per current muslim mythology). Just as I am sure you dont think earthquakes are caused by the cow that holds up the universe on shaking its head (per ancient hindu mythology, as I understand it). Or that a thunderclap to one`s left is a sign that the gods disapprove of one`s actions.

With respect to the General Surrender Niazi, he also believed in the myth of the superiority of the West Pakistanis over Bengalis and joked about ``improving the bengali race`` (in the same manner as musharraf has been joking about rapes lately). So, the less said about Niazi and his myths, the better.

Mr. Gill actually writes very decent articles concerning science, but I think this time he made the mistake of mixing religion with science. Instead, I wish he had written an article on hurricanes and their possible link to global warming or something.

delhiwala:

With due regards, I suggest to you that you have not understood my article. Either you haven`t read it carefully or you did not understand the essence of it. You might have some presumptions about me on which you are basing your posts but that is not what the article said. Go read it again and remember it has some subtle satirical nuances.

Mohammad Gill

dost-mittar #49: ``All prophets that count (the named ones!) were found only in a very small neighbourhood of this planet. I sometimes wonder when our friends of Abrahmic faith will realise the tenuous basis of their faiths; namely that of a pea-brained God who would send all known prophets to a very small neighbourhood and deliver that message in languages (arahmic, hebrew, arabic) understood by only a minscule proportion of his intended audience.``

I don`t think people believe in religion, due to the location of prophets. There are, apparently, over on lakh, according to Islamic belief. They believe in it, specifically, due to the randomly unpredictable causes of death, and randomly unpredictable causes of creation of life.

While everyone can answer the question, of how hurricanes are created, no one can answer the questions of why only certain people become the victims. It is that later question, which requires answers. Until someone answers that question, scientifically, I think religion, in some form or another, will remain..............

Why bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people has so many uncontrallable variables that I don`t knon how science will ever solve it. In fact, science, itself, seems to be stating, more and more that it cannot solve it.

What people should try to concentrate on is providing answers to these questions, i.e. better options than what is currently available. If life is a simple roll of the dice, then the world is an extremely unfair place, designed heavily in favor of the haves, and tilted heavily against the have-nots...........

The problem is not, in my opinion, the fact that religious folks have the concept of an Absolute God that has all the answers. The problem is that the non-religious folks have been unable to provide any better answers to the most complex questions of life............

Re: # 44
Tahmed Jee,
What do you think of God`s vengeance against America?

It reminds me of a famous interview that Khushwant Singh took of AAK Niazi in Lahore after the 1971 War. After the Interview Singh pointed towards the mantle piece display quoting an Ayat from Quran stating that ``Allah helps to Win the War for his followers``.
Singh, who knew Arabic pretended to ask the same to AAK, who proudly read it alound with translation. Then Singh asked how come Allah helped the Indians to win the War.

Mr Gill`s article sounds pretty much the same to me, I am amazed that people in this day and age think like that. I wish he could make a better case of Iraq War by stating facts rather than feeling good when inncocent americans died in hurricanes.
I wonder where his loyalty lies, is he an American or what?

Gill Saheb:

A lot of people are asking the same question. These natural disasters are making people introspect a little about their beliefs with varying results.

Some, though not all, faithfuls are ascribing these as the wrath of an angry God. Those belonging to the ummah point to the revenge of Allah on America for attacking the ummah in Afghanistan and Iraq. But they are not the only ones. Those christian fundamentalists who elected Bush are also pointing to an angry God, angry because of all the sins being committed by godless Americans. They point out to the fact that New Orleans was a sin city, a near emodiment of Sodom and Gonorreoh. A big festival of Gays was to be held there just a few days after the Katrina, which has now been naturally wiped out.

But it has affected some other faithfuls in a different way; they have begun to wonder about a God who would punish innocent, black americans for no sins of theirs. It is shaking their confidence in a just and omnipotent God.

The non-believers are also affected. Some are pointing out to the scientific phenomenon of increased CO-2 in the atmosphere, global warming and how it is causing extreme weather fluctuations. They are even more firmly entrenched in their non-belief in a just God.

But it`s not a lose-lose proposition for God. Some non-believers see the awesome power of nature and their faith in their non-faith is shaken. They are now willing to contemplate the existence of a supreme power that controls our destiny.

I believe, however, that all these are temporary changes. After some time, we will all go back to our normal state of belief or non-belief.

paradox:

``In the old testament we can find prophets in almost every neighbourhood``

All prophets that count (the named ones!) were found only in a very small neighbourhood of this planet. I sometimes wonder when our friends of Abrahmic faith will realise the tenuous basis of their faiths; namely that of a pea-brained God who would send all known prophets to a very small neighbourhood and deliver that message in languages (arahmic, hebrew, arabic) understood by only a minscule proportion of his intended audience.

Ref paradox #38

[One thing i find very interesting is that from Adam to Prophet Mohammad, period of about 6000 years, God sent 124000 prophets and about 6 holy books. Now why on earth would God stop sending new prophets and new holy books. I think humans need more prophets and new holy books every few years.
In the old testament we can find prophets in almost every neighbourhood and its really sad that we dont get them anymore.]

Whoa. whoa, whoa! Stop right there.

One of those prophets declared himself to be the Prophet to End All Prophets. Since then, anyone claiming to be a prophet or considered to be coming close to prophethood would meet the Wrath of the Momin.

Tahmed21, Chowk`s resident mullah-in-chief, could explain this better to you.

Re: # 46

Delhiwala, has it ever occurred to you that he might be God’s representative in this country?

As for as Bangladesh cyclones are concerned, God messed up. Poor SOB couldn’t use Google earth correctly and mistook Chitagoong for Chattanooga. Give him some time to catch up with new technology.

By your logic,
God really hates Bangladesh as they if you take the sampling of past 100 years of recorded history, they have had the worst cyclones.

Mr Gill: Why did you immigrate to a country that is against your religion and country? You can always go back to your pure country where there are no natural disasters.

#35 Nadia_Zee,

That was hilarious!

Don’t listen to Hamidm2! I think you are great – even though I speak under duress (of memories (you remind me of a childhood cousin sis (I was always very nice to her (she used to beat me up (someday, I will recover (I am sure the bones will stop hurting (one of these days (ouch!))))))).

Best regards,
Beej.

Romair: Now I am totally confused. I thought all these years you were a Pakistan Army Alumnus. Now you say you are not. Anyway, if Charlie Wilson (ex-Congressman from Texas) can be Field Marshall of the Pakistan Army (according to the book ``Charlie Wilson`s War`` he was secretly given this honorary rank on the orders of General Zia as gratitude for his single-handed efforts to secure resources to fight the Soviets), so can you given your vast knowledge of military subjects that rival that of Clausewitz, Napoleon and Sun Tzu put together. So, let the next hurricane be named Hurricane Field Marshall Romair!!

Are we speaking of a God based on boundaries or territorial lines...?

Human tragedy be it America, Africa or any country for that matter is supposed to be sympathized for regardless of the cast color creed or ethnicity of a certain victim.

Although many of the so-called moderates and the FUNdamentalist shall be describing this as a wrath of GOD and others going so far as describing this the end of the imperialistic powers we must realize a few things:

A poor man in reality has no religion.. no nation.. no allegiance.. he is just concerned about earning his livelihood and getting over with the day.. It is sad to note that 96% of the area affected were blacks who became locked in the area due to the lack of economic and physical mobility. The government may have been slow in acting and it may have been attributable to the cut in funding for the rainy days since the Clinton Administration..but when it did come.. it overwhelmed the mass populace.. and the whites or the economically better off got away.... We still have to realize that these were inherently poor people.. and poor people in any country are the first to succumb to such sort of natural catastrophies. Instead of helping these people are even for that matter feeling sympathetic towards their plight.. we are just being like our ``masters``... arrogant and indifferent to the problems of the poor even in developed countries like the US of A itself.

By calling these calamities the wrath of God and gleefully rejoicing isnt really the way to go.. for even the sad state of Muslim countries is inherently a wrath of god.. which we often ignore by just claiming corruption and malpractices at the heart of all problems. When are we going to go beyond our pseudo-intellectual debates and start doing something meaningful.

kulharee #41 and that is just this one small planet earth in one insignificant part of the universe that God is busy messing up every hurricane season. And on top of that He takes Friday off as well. :-)

This is a very nice piece of work. Not long ago God was on a raping rampage in Pakistan, and then he was caught on videotape blowing up London Tubes, and now these Hurricanes on the Mexican Gulf coast of the US? All I have to say is Holy Shyt, and I am beginning to question about the one-ness of God. How can One God be at so many places within a matter of short periods of time? The reason I raise this point is because between Katrina and Rita there were 150 Iraqis blown to pieces. Must have been a coordinated effort between God and his sidekick – some little dumbass Sunni Arab.

I saw God upclose on 9/11 four years ago, and he is not as bad as you seem to think of him. He told 4000 Jews not to show up for work on that day. How merciful. I am just so impressed with his powers.

Allah-o-Akbar…

New prophets in every neighbourhood?, there were at one time two or three prophets running around in the same neighbourhood simulataneously, after all jerusalem was no bigger than say the Bronx in 400BC.

But it is not prophets alone who have not kept up with deman, even as populations have exploded Sikh Gurus, Jain Tirthankaras, Hindu avtars have all declared a strike.

I am really amazed how the concept of God is engraved in Human nature. It has changed over the period of time but is still valid for most of the humanity, more so during the time of a disaster.
One thing i find very interesting is that from Adam to Prophet Mohammad, period of about 6000 years, God sent 124000 prophets and about 6 holy books. Now why on earth would God stop sending new prophets and new holy books. I think humans need more prophets and new holy books every few years.
In the old testament we can find prophets in almost every neighbourhood and its really sad that we dont get them anymore.

I am really amazed how the concept of God is engraved in Human nature. It has changed over the period of time but is still valid for most of the humanity, more so during the time of a disaster.
One thing i find very interesting is that from Adam to Prophet Mohammad, period of about 6000 years, God sent 124000 prophets and about 6 holy books. Now why on earth would God stop sending new prophets and new holy books. I think humans need more prophets and new holy books every few years.
In the old testament we can find prophets in almost every neighbourhood and its really sad that we dont get them anymore.

burpinder,

wow what a coincidence, you, mr. gill and the rest of the world are thinking the same thoughts

how original

i dont think this could be it. God is too busy to be taking care of the affairs of this round planet called earth. He has to respond to so many of the affairs coming His way from all sides of the universe.

how a climatic change be termed as wrath of God and a stupid dumbass driver`s or owner`s greed be put as God`s act where fifty people were roasted black?

i dont really think God would like to hurt or torture His people. His is Great, Good and Big Guy with a Big Heart and lives in Summerland.

#4 by Beej:

It seems you have no acuity to mentor my thoughts

So Kindly Shoot up.

Regards,

What a coincidence...was just pondering on the same thing...so many natural disasters in succession hitting the US...is there a divine hand behind it?!!!

Dr. Gill, don`t waste your time interacting with these losers who wouldn`t know satire if it came and bit them on their hairy a$$es.

Some of them should really stick to their forte, i.e. Unplugged. I am sure they feel serously handicapped by the absence of emoticaons on FP.