The Wicked Witch Of Western Literature

you are lucky,huh at least you didn’t get beaten up by her. I remembered when I was in high school in Pakistan. Teacher beat you up for really small mistakes. We use to get beaten up by the principal of school if we had missed the school. And I remember I was in 8th grad in Pakistan and I missed one day. and the second day I was standing outside of class with rest of the students from the class to answer the principal why we didn’t come to school yesterday. So I was standing outside with bunch of other girls from the class. Principal came with his stick and started hitting on each and every single girl head no matter what the reason was for missing school. There was only one girl who didn’t get beaten up because her dad was friends with the principal. Anyhow its funny, right here in US when I went to high school here, I never wanted to miss any day of my school. Its strange you can skip days here and no one will hit you but you don’t. no wonder why students run away from schools in Pakistan. But I guess things are now changing back home, at least that’s what I have heard.

[I was walking through the park when a pigeon accosted me,
Dismembering me with its eyes it asked me for a donut,
I said I have only bread can’t you see
Leaving me with bread in hand and a hole in my soul
Cursed pigeon.]

I am currently laughing my head off. grin. I mean consider... Hole in my soul vs a donut with a hole in it... Tis funny. And the word ``dismembering`` seems to completely throw the whole piece of joint which just adds to the whole finale. Cursed. The oddest things can send one into gales of laughter.

Re: # 52

Hypocrisy and self-delusion in action!

Defines ``hogwash`` very well and puts ``fourth rate`` in perspective, not to mention clueless...well, given the esl crowd and open admissions...!

Re: # 52

...and counting...

Re: # 51

Godot Sahib,

1. You came on this board with nothing tangible to say about the construction of the story and used it as a launch pad for your thinly disguised sneer at interactors you have publically sneered at before. Self Delusion.

2. You scolded other interactors for being able to respond to the actual construction of the story saying that you do no such thing. (Hypocrisy)

3. You comment that people who teach at ``fourth rate`` schools should not be taken seriously. (delusion) When called on that, you descended into some confused muddle about god knows what. (delusion)

4. When shown a passage by a noted Ivy League scholar, you commented that the scholar`s work wasn`t good enough for you, or was ``fourth rate`` because you didnt understand it. (delusion)

5. You then post your own definitions of hypocrisy, delusion and whatever tangent you are off on and then get angry when someone posts more precise and correct definitions. (delusion)

6. You then take posts that werent addressed to you and respond as if they were. (delusion)

I am compelled not to continue discussing anything with you into Ramzan is over. Thats the only explanation I can charitably offer for this behavior.

There was #35: “In the future, I will desist from commenting...looking forward to reading (and not responding)``

And then there were #37, #38, #47...and now #49, #50...and counting!!!

Hypocrisy and self-delusion...oh, yeah!

Re: # 48

hy·poc·ri·sy (h-pkr-s) KEY

NOUN:
pl. hy·poc·ri·sies
The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.
An act or instance of such falseness.

---

ETYMOLOGY:
Middle English ipocrisie, from Old French, from Late Latin hypocrisis, play-acting, pretense, from Greek hupokrisis, from hupokrnesthai, to play a part, pretend : hupo-, hypo- + krnesthai, to explain, middle voice of krnein, to decide, judge; see krei- in Indo-European roots

Re: # 48

de·lu·sion (d-lzhn) KEY

NOUN:


The act or process of deluding.
The state of being deluded.
A false belief or opinion: labored under the delusion that success was at hand.
Psychiatry A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness: delusions of persecution

On hypocrisy and self-delusion…

There was #35: “In the future, I will desist from commenting...looking forward to reading (and not responding)``

And then there were #37, #38, #47

And then there was #17: “about hypocrisy and self delusion...you might learn something.”

Hypocrisy: a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not

Self-delusion: something that is falsely believed or propagated by oneself

I just learned something about hypocrisy and self-delusion!

Ali,

Perhaps you should comply with Miss Zehra`s request.

Author:

Looks like you have a thing for Ms. Matika! What did she do to you, whip your behind or something – boy, you still seem to smart so!

The name sounds like “Mati-ka” or “of the wisdom” – perhaps a concept some around here may have difficulty coming to grips with – especially you!

[Call me crazy but I try to write things with a little substance to them.]
Let’s call you crazy, and stop right there!

[…My stories came out sounding like they were written by Mr. Rogers. What a b*tch.]
The late Mr. Rogers was a man!

[I was walking through the park when a pigeon accosted me,
Dismembering me with its eyes it asked me for a donut,
I said I have only bread can’t you see
Leaving me with bread in hand and a hole in my soul
Cursed pigeon.]

Those pigeons – they pee
With pure, pure glee
And leave this crap
This rum bum rap

How got it freed
Editor-wise
When more was need
Janitor wise!

Your hole in soul
Indeed was “goal”
And head was bread
With taste of lead

Makes all see red
Your very own bread
And while you brag
WE hold your bag!

Re: # 44

Dude, you don`t have a clue. Relax.

# 43, you missed the mark very wide on that one, though ``they thought`` may well stick. but how do you explain the evolution from # 10 ``a good read`` to #42 ``fourth-rate``? Either you liked the piece or you didn`t (not that I care). does it really matter what saminasha, I or anyone else says about this work? no, we`re just after-the-fact hangers-on type critics, and all that should not detract from having some genuine feelings about it.

Re: # 41


``in my experience, the only people who bear grudges against what they term ``fourth rate colleges`` are those who couldn`t get into them.``

And in my experience, those who went to a college, or are in one, they thought was fourth-rate get offended very quickly by mere mention of it. Their insecurity shows through and through!

Re: # 40

Zia

“what`s a fourth-rate college anyway? What do you think is the distribution of chowk people by the ``rates`` of the colleges they graduated from?”

The point wasn`t ``the distribution of chowk people by the ``rates`` of the colleges they graduated from.`` But since you have clearly indicated your standard and preference, it is not surprising that you asked that question. And a fourth-rate question it is.

Apparently you don`t know, or differentiate, what ``fourth-rate`` college, or in fact anything, is. No point in me elaborating on the concept of ``fourth-rate.`` You have to figure it out yourself. Wish you lots of luck.

Btw, can you present as evidence the writings from your master as proof that those writings are in fact ``better than the rest of us``? And remember, talk is cheap. Without providing evidence, you are, to put it in perspective, ``fourth-rate.``

in my experience, the only people who bear grudges against what they term ``fourth rate colleges`` are those who couldn`t get into them.

Re: # 38
Samina, where do you teach?

Godot, what`s a fourth-rate college anyway? What do you think is the distribution of chowk people by the ``rates`` of the colleges they graduated from?

Re: # 36

Hamid

I don’t know who this “bhaba” is who wrote this crap, nor I care. That is just hogwash. It’s like, “say something no one understands to make me look intelligent”!

Now, compare the above with the following (I was saving this for my iLog, but what the heck!...I would that later.):

“If a writer be conscious that to gain a reception for his favourite doctrine he must combat with certain elements of opposition, in the taste, or the pride, or the indolence of those whom he is addressing, this will only serve to make him the more importunate.”

Ali Rizvi, take a note of what I quoted about a writer.

Re: # 30

I beg your pardon? Do you think that working class, immigrant desis in North America deserve a ``fourth rate`` education? Check the faculty of this ``fourth rate`` college Godot Sahib and the public uni Ivy Leagues they`ve come from and then talk.

Your logic system says, ``oh, if they are teaching immigrant, working class desis, they can`t be decent academics..`` and you couldnt be more clueless. The last three generations of academics at my uni graduated from highly ranked schools and have CHOSEN to teach to an extremely underserved population. Guess you think you are better than working class, immigrant desis....

Re: # 36

Hamid,

Its easy to take shots at Bhaba....but he has made some serious contributions. Given the acontextualized passage you`ve posted, my guess is that the subject is the Bush Administration`s position on Iraq, WMDs and terrorism.

can someone please explain this to me :

``If, for a while, the ruse of desire is calculable for the uses of discipline soon the repetition of guilt, justification, pseudo-scientific theories, superstition, spurious authorities and classifications can be seen as the desperate effort to ``normalize`` formally the disturbance of a discourse of splitting that violates the rational, enlightened claims of its enunciatory modality.``

........... samina ? godot ?..........

who wrote that ?...... homi bhaba, of course ...

Re: # 29

You`ve taken my comments with a dose of good humor and equanimity (sp?) and that I respect. I love satires of academia-and if you`ve read the emails around faculty listservs, you`d wish Kingsley Amis was around to use them in his sequels to Lucky Jim.

In the future, I will desist from commenting. I tend to appreciate people who take the time out to understand what I am trying to do. You may not-fair enough.

looking forward to reading (and not responding) to more.

Re: # 32

Zia

Apology accepted. However, I`m pleased to know your measuring stick. It does say quite a bit about your standards.

Re: # 28

Khamkhwa

When you are on their turf you have to play by their rules. This is Chowk`s territory and you have to play by the rules they have set. Also, since this is their turf, they can amend the rules however they see fit. Either you play by their rules or go back to where you came from.

Re: # 30
Sorry, Godot: my bad.

Samina, you`re better than me.

(We`re talking about writing, of course, not rescuing puppies or kissing babies etc. I hate babies.)

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Re: # 29

Zia

An ESL teacher at a fourth-rate, open-admission college probably is better than you and does know better than you! But please speak for yourself and don’t project your awe on ``the rest of us``.

Re: # 26
Samina, you`re better that the rest of us. Admit it! :)

Ali, you might be upset but it`s criticism from someone who knows what she`s talking about (unlike the rest of us amateurs).

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Re: # 22

Wah bey...even your response is more tired than Sisyphus working a triple shift...sorry, this is more proof that the narrator is a whiny poser.

Hamid,

We`ve gone through this before and you seem to miss the point. Who was the Tom Clancy of Shakespeare`s time and why isnt he part of our canon?

Re: # 24

kham,

.......... i guess you, me and the gipper are real men - a dying breed ......... nowdays they wear eye makeup, watch queer eye and read poems by billy collins ............ sigh !

.......... do you think the marlboro man would write something like this ?

There are many that I miss
having sent my last one out a car window
sparking along the road one night, years ago.

The heralded one, of course:
after sex, the two glowing tips
now the lights of a single ship;
at the end of a long dinner
with more wine to come
and a smoke ring coasting into the chandelier;
or on a white beach,
holding one with fingers still wet from a swim.

How bittersweet these punctuations
of flame and gesture;
but the best were on those mornings
when I would have a little something going
in the typewriter,
the sun bright in the windows,
maybe some Berlioz on in the background.
I would go into the kitchen for coffee
and on the way back to the page,
curled in its roller,
I would light one up and feel
its dry rush mix with the dark taste of coffee.

Then I would be my own locomotive,
trailing behind me as I returned to work
little puffs of smoke,
indicators of progress,
signs of industry and thought,
the signal that told the nineteenth century
it was moving forward.
That was the best cigarette,
when I would steam into the study
full of vaporous hope
and stand there,
the big headlamp of my face
pointed down at all the words in parallel lines.

............. but it is kind of nice

Re: # 23
hamidm...
zane grey, louise l`amour and max brand...loved `em fellas...yeehaaw....;)

samina,

...... seriously ... most people like stuff that might be considered ``bad`` by some others ...... for example, if i had to name my favourite author i would say zane grey or louis l`amour without any hesitation - does that make me some sort of an intellectual pygmy ? ........... if i was being exiled to an island and was given the choice of taking the collected works of shakespeare or a single zane grey novel, guess what, i`d take the zane grey - i wouldn`t want to be bored to death in addition to being starved to death or being eaten by cannibals ............my daughter who hated ``little women`` loves edgar allan poe because he is ``creepy`` and ``cool`` as opposed to being ``dumb`` and ``boring`` - i think she will make a fine critic ...........

Samina Ji, you know they have devised ways of dealing with PMS. The most controlled and safest one is known as Midol. Try it.

Ali.

Re: # 20

I beg your pardon, hamidsahb?

As I encouraged Hamzadsahb to write his opus on crazed feminazis running a press that used the blood of pregnant 18 year old religious village girls as ink, I continue to encourage every writer to continue. I just think its ironic that a narrator who accuses his writing teacher of every textual failure couldnt see the limitations of his own work...

Glass houses.....or in this case, glass pages....

ali,

...... thanks!...... this was simply wonderful regardless of what ms saminasha says - just ignore her and keep on writing ............. she is simply sticking up for a fellow ``professional`` ................

.......... last week my straight-a eighth grader turned in a book report on ``little women`` ..in which she basically said that the book ``sucked`` and that the person who wrote it was a ``geek`` ....... her english teacher gave her an ``e`` and told her that the book was a beloved classic and that she should rewrite her report ............. i gave my daughter five bucks and told her to tell her teacher to go jump in a lake ........

...........but she rewote it and recieived an `a` ............ however, she did confess that she still hated the book and that her english teacher was a ``dork`` ........... i think she is going places !

All well narrated Ali Rizvi but it brings giggles everytime my eyes get transfixed to this long-style Haiku Stanza of Ms. Matika:

I was walking through the park when a pigeon accosted me,
Dismembering me with its eyes it asked me for a donut,
I said I have only bread can’t you see
Leaving me with bread in hand and a hole in my soul
Cursed pigeon.

It sounds more like as Queen Marie said: ``If the people have no bread, let them eat cake``

Do you have any more of her hilarious pieces than please do quote.

Rizvi Sahib, Nice story. Brought tears to my eyes. Ms. Makita’s style sounds awfully similar to female writers of Chowk like Saminasha, Mantolives, and Erica Gill.

Godot,

Write something about hypocrisy and self delusion. You might learn something more valuable.

Re: # 13 & 14

From my iLog entry...

How does one deal with the Stupid? One doesn’t, no matter how tempting it is.

It’s so easy to take the low road. It’s all downhill, all the way to the pit. The Stupid takes you down that road if you engage with them. In their infuriating stupidity, they tempt you to lower yourself. Tempt you to be cruel, to bring out the worst in you. Tempt you like an alcoholic in a liquor store with pocket full of money, drooling, buying. I have been down that road with them before, and have learned a very valuable lesson: force yourself by taking the low road with them and you lose your own dignity and self-respect. The Stupid does not have a problem with that because they have neither. They tread the low road.

It’s a lot more difficult to take the high road. Not to be tempted. Not unlike an alcoholic in a liquor store with pocket full of money who walks out without a purchase.

The Noble treads the difficult path.

There is no deadlier weapon than the will.
The sharpest sword
Is not equal to it.
There is no robber so dangerous.
Which does the most damage?
Man’s own will.

Ugly and Beautiful complete each other
For it weren’t for Ugly how would we know Beautiful

Ignorance and Knowledge complete each other
For if it weren’t for Ignorance how would we know Knowledge

Stupidity and Intelligence complete each other
For if it weren’t for Stupidity how would we know Intelligence

Re: # 14

correction:

contributions written by at least two interactors for whom your dislike is well known on chowk?

Re: # 13

Also, havent you been the first on board to throw your little stones at the chowk fp contributions to at least two interactors for whom your dislike is well known on chowk?

You must see yourself here.

Godot,

And havent you claimed several times that you are smarter than most people?

Re: # 10

Yes. Non-fiction.

Re: # 10

Godot,

Do you contribute anything besides translations?

Ali –

Well, what can I say! Very funny and very well written. Thanks for a good read.

Why does this eerily remind me of a Chow...? Naaah!

Ziahmed,

No problem. Hope to read more!

Re: # 6
Yikes! I`m too scared to ever write again. Thanks, Saminasha!

That said, I do find myself sympathizing more with the an- than the pro-.

Dear Diary...

correction:

In presenting this binary, (Me: perfect innocent, Everyone else: S&M writing group), you are really showing the limits of your own imagination in NOT creating a complex discourse group with competing agendas, upmanship, intergroup dynamics and worst, talking down to your audience.

Ali Rizvi,

I`vre read satires of academia and the professionals that populate it, and unfortunately, this sounded more disgruntled than anything. Here are your cliches:

1. Narrator`s sanity vs. the sanity of the discourse group. In other words, ``I`m not crazy, everyone else is!``. This trope is more often than not unsucessful because it violates the demands of three dimensionality; there was nothing reasonable about anyone in this group? The narrator was the epitome of rational good manners? An utter innocent? Why is this remotely interesting to the reader?

In presenting this binary, (Me: perfect innocent, Everyone else: S&M writing group), you are really showing the limits of your own imagination in creating a complex discourse group with competing agendas, upmanship, intergroup dynamics and worst, talking down to your audience. We`ve all been in classes and unless we are a bit childish, we can all appreciate that a classroom doesnt operate by absolutes.

So, in a way, how is the narrator differerent from the antagonist?

2. Pseudo anti colonialism. So your protagonist recommended Earl Grey and scones which you have included to signify Uncle Tomness. You`ve paired that with subject matter dear to the antagonist`s heart-nunnery life. This pairing could be read as the easy shorthand of what the narrator views as the antagonist`s perverse interests. In other words, how could a Pukka Desi deviate from doodh putti chai, rusk and a trilogy on the origins of Sanskrit?

The rahrah anti colonialism is one thing-again, pretty simplistic, but you`ve done something a bit more creepy here which is to conflate the exploration of a lesser practiced religious ideology with deviance-and this is not funny. It just comes off as really limited.

It seems the narrator is trying to point out the doubleness of the antagonist`s classroom dynamics (aggressive and violent) with her quiet and orderly intellectual and literary subject material. A writer who was able to mine the subtleties of this dicotomy would focus and develop this for truly satirical commentary on human psychology. But the narrator goes for the cheap laugh and alienates a potentially sympathetic reader in the process. What you`ve got left as your still reading readers are the walking wounded...and thats not an audience known for its level headedness.

3. Ditto for academic professor-student dynamics. First of all, its a bit condescending to imply that the nature of these are completely different from workplace dynamics -esp in the upper levels. The narrator probably sucks up to his boss with nary a thought and probably is too caught up in the power imbalance of being beholden for a job to make any real critiques of Boss Sahib. Plus, your Boss Sahib pays you, he`s a man, its a clearly business setting and he might promote you if your kissing butt technique is particularly skillful.

This device of Tird is a bit one dimensional. Yes, yes, you are the better ``man`` for not participating in trying to gain the professor`s approval-bully for you! However, given your outraged self congratulation, we miss the insights into why the Tirds are so ingratiating. Another comic opportunity missed. What about your attempts to get the antagonist`s approval (come on, dont bs us, you didnt try once?) Second missed opportunity.

The effect of this energetic defense is not that we appreciate the piece, but that we are tired, because we see the potential.

4. You Are Not Shakespeare. Are you a better writer than the antagonist? One one hand you provided Tird`s poem on pigeons and that was our ``proof``. But where is the antagonist`s work to support your inner writing child? If the narrator TRULY was Shakepeare, he would have provided his AND his antagonist`s texts.

Plus, the whole reference to Shakespeare is stale as Shakespeare`s own identity is still being conjectured: 1. did his sister write his work? 2. Christopher Marlowe? 3. a collective of writers?

5. Your work was edited and you didnt like the results. Hold the presses, we have something never expressed before.

6. Your narrator knows more than your antagonist. Does any really intelligent person ever say that? Your narrator does, and the effect is that narrator comes off as immature and not really more knowledgeable.

A somewhat constructed piece of one dimensional whining. Good luck in your future endeavors!

HA!
Reminded my of my Psychology Professor who hated me, because i knew more than her..she once even asked me to leave the class, for no reason at all.. just because she didnt want me in it....!!???!!

She felt like SHIT when i got a Distinction in her subject ..and boy oh boy did i rub it in!!Just to piss her off i even applied for a job in the Psychology School...that really got to her..she even asked me whether i was serious about teaching i told her... ``nah i dont think i want to teach Psychology here..its a losers job!! Syke scores 10.....DuckFace...zero.!!

Ali Rizvi...

Good to finally see you here...

Excellent rant... I used to have a teacher quite like your Miss Makita... for some weird reason we used to call her AC...

So howz life...

Enjoyed reading it....keep them coming.

Bravo! In a burst of anger, I once told my french teacher she didn`t know how to teach. Nothing angers a teacher more than such a comment from daring students.