August 2003

Often people have had their cultures combined with that of others find themselves lost, confused.. of nowhere.. yet other people get up stronger and are a perfect combination of diversity..

#108 by aruna #108

[Re: # 105

Wow-....I didnt know there were Pakistani Hindus! ]

Yeah, they are on exhibit at the Lahore Zoo. And a few stuffed Sardars are in the Karachi Museum.

Re: # 105

Wow- thats a good variety of friends. I didnt know there were Pakistani Hindus! - shows how much I know huh? Its great that we can leave those mental blocks behind. I feel like it`s an achievement to convince yourself that things are not what they seem or that people or parents seem to think they seem.

Re: # 106

You kidding me? Pakistani rock rocks! It`s one of my fav types of music, and every Pakistani I know can wield a guitar like nothing else!- and yes. Nirvana was popular:)

I can relate somewhat . I spent most of my childhood and adolescence in Bahrain in International type schools, during that time I developed a serious dislike for the local Paki community. I grew to despise local community functions (hi-lites of which, included exhilrating performances of patriotic songs by popular Punjabi folk singer Jawad Ahmed) where I couldn`t talk to the girls or do anything remotely entertaining. I was much happier getting hammered at the homes of gora friends.So you can imagine my horror when it turned out that we were to return to Pakistan and I was convinced I`d have to take a shotgun to the roof of my mouth within six months.
But surprisingly enough when I actually came here I found that Paki`s were`nt the joyless bastards I had encountered throughout my life thus far and that they liked to get wasted just as much as anyone else and some of them even listened to Nirvana. All in all its a good thing I came back and experienced life as a Pakistani in Pakisan. I`d probably appreciate it even more if I could just get the fuck outta here. ;)

so i`m not the only one feels like you! going to pakistan to complete my secondary education may have been in some cases the best and worst for me, and coming to england to live here is or has been the best or the worse for me, but somehow i feel i`m mote rounded then i am to my peers in pakistan. one of my best friends is in indian, another close friend is a pkistani hindu who is more than a sister that a friend. and a childhood mate from heaven who can be hell at times wose black! and have no qualms with my assortment of friends. though my parents do feel slightly uncomfortable when i meet my childhood friend!

Re: # 102

aah- but wouldn`t that be like stressing on the dramaticism of that statement and hence weakening it for the reader?
The title was weak- I agree. I sort of wanted to stress that this was written 2 years ago. Things have changed again- like they always do.

Re: # 101

Details would have been great- but I don`t know how interesting a read it would have made to an average reader. I tried to strike a balance- and throw in some embellishments.
Maybe I`ll deal with individual aspects in the future. But you know, there are some things that people go through collectively, and can relate to better as a statement, than when it is broken up into the specifics. It becomes harder for people to relate to specifics, because specifics are individual experiences, and while it`s interesting to read about someone in detail, it does nothing to get your own thought process started.

This is a nice write-up, clearly genuine. Most people here can identify with one or other part of it – as evidenced by the content of several interacts.

Exposure to a variety of cultures can open up opportunities for learning more about others – and expand one’s horizons. Not everybody takes advantage of such an opportunity – not everybody HAS the ability to do so – sometimes people can shrink back into their own – especially so when they are surrounded by what they perceive to be a hostile environment.

Parents try to do the best that they can for their children, given the circumstances and constraints that they live in and are subject to.

Neither the teaser line nor the title appeal to me too much – probably the reasons I got here late – Kraft cheese does not have the same value for every one – given the contents, you could probably come up with something more interesting. My choice for the title would have been something more attention-grabbing – like – “That Spit on the Bus Window…” or something along those titles – because that happens to be one of the few images that remains!

Or may be it`s that curmudgeon in me....

re: Amrita # 98

That could be summarized as: ``I (think I) have grown up (because I am older than six).``

As a reader, I would have liked to see a greater focus on the actual, often difficult, inner work of growing up. Greater attention to the evolution of the author`s thoughts, desires, and conflicts - the differing contexts and processes, over time, of making life`s choices and arriving at fateful (often unbeknowth to oneself) decisions.

This inner aspect is what makes everyone unique and interesting. The only distinguishing feature of this write up appeared to be the names of places and people.

Re: # 98

Amen

Re: # 88
kidbeegorilla - i dont know how old you are but i think both aruna and i are still in our twenties and cant predict what its going to be like in another 10 or 20 years.

imo at this precise moment in time, what you`re talking about is tangential to what aruna has expressed in her essay and her replies to various people and to what i feel myself. here`s how it works for people who grew up in multiple universes:

there`s a family universe where things are the way things are due to various compulsions. you act a certain way, dress a certain way, talk a certain way or any permutation thereof when you meet up with family. then there are your peers at school: there is a certain school/class culture no matter where you grow up - it might relate to the way you dress or the way you spend your hours after school or the friends you make, etc. then there is the culture or setting within which that school operates: the city where you grow up. each city has its own rules and values which may not be the same as the ones prevalent in your family. i am a south indian who grew up in delhi. everything from language to mores were different at home and outside. then there is your hometown - if you come from a family like mine then everyone in your hometown knows who you are even if you only show up for the holidays once every year. so there`s the whole izzat ka sawaal that informs your every move in your hometown. then, as everyone who`s lived in india can testify, there`s a class issue - some people are considered not up to your weight by god-only-knows-who and no one is interested in what you feel about the issue personally. in some families or places, there might even be a caste issue.

college isnt just a place for experimentation. its the place you go to and meet people you have not had the opportunity to meet before. by the time you exit, you`re not the same person who went in - if you`ve taken advantage of your privileges that is. if you`ve been to college outside your own country then the opportunities offered multiply. because you`re meeting people who dont have the same baggage as you carry. this is something of a personal obervation btw - i`ve been college in india as well and it was amazing how my class was filled with people who knew each other or of each other. we were all from the same socio-economic background and had all been to the same schools, knew the same people, had partied or holidayed at the same places and this to me was incredible in a country of a billion people.

my friends from college here are white, black, hispanic, asian and european: we each come from disparate backgrounds and were brought up very differently. we disagree on a number of issues, often vehemently so, but we are old enough to undertand that we dont have to agree with each other all the time to hang out and have fun or to depend on each other. again, i dont know what it;ll be like in 20 or 30 years. as aruna implies, there are no easy or ready answers to every question.

right now, this is the way it is.

Re: # 85

Re: # 81

I did have those curiosities in India too- I desperately wanted to see the inside of a church and a mosque for example- but so many people in my city knew my family, and rest assured, news travels fast. I think I managed to visit the church, but I was so nervous.

ROFL.. nervous to goto a church.. I felt the same the first time I was cutting classes to goto a movie, first time on alcohol and the first time on a porn movie in a friend`s house (what we used to call ``BF`` :-) ). The feeling of getting caught or to be seen by someone who knows me.. And I never imagined people would feel nervous to visit a place of worship... Those places are supposed to be good.. aren`t they??. LOL..

Re: # 85
I went to a Catholic school, so I went to our school chapel much more often than I went to temples!

Aruna

Good enough. Done with intelligence, personal stories can shine light on the general human condition.

Re: # 88

Those are some heartfelt words right there. Did you trade in one suffocating cloak for another yourself, or is this a theoretical comment? Theory makes sense when things are constant, but human beings are variables. Maybe freedom might be taken for granted and seem like nothing out of the ordinary when things get settled down and we form cliques. But I`d rather trade suffocation in a place I cannot relate to, with suffocation in a place that I can relate to. I think I`d be happier that way. You`re right. Judgement is bound to happen at some point of time, no matter where one is. Fortunately I haven`t been in one place long enough to be seriously judged. So far.

Re: # 92

Don`t know why someone should be interested... maybe because it might make them recount their own experiences and compare them and think about it- as happens with any form of media relating a story.

It didnt have a purpose. There was no point to drive really. Just speculations, thought processes, and putting things in a form that I could understand too. All the interaction and questions to and from makes me think, and I form new neural connections, and that helps me think some more. Hopefully it got someone else thinking about why their life turned out the way it did.

A

Aruna

Were one to simplify the plot here, this is what it would be: you spent your impressionable years in Arab countries, living with an Indian family that did not encourage you to cross the divide existing between Arabs and Indians. You were uncomfortable with that. So when you got a chance of moving away from your family, you became part of an Arab circle. You also exchanged some Arab/American practices for the ones your family had followed upon during the time you were with them.

Nicely written it surely is, but I am tempted to ask: so what? Why should the reader be interested?

Thanks.

#89, No, and No.

I might be confused, but am learning to accept that too. ``

i liked this specially as a finish. it could be something like a woody allen`s character verbalizing and going on about... :) good writeup and best wishes.

cheers.

#88
And if you are not forced somehow or the other, you end up conforming anyway, just to ``blend in``, voluntarily, and out of need.

you sure, this is not a contradiction?

Your ``real friends`` who shared your enthusiasms and other things college, too must have eventually ``grown up``.

does ``growing up together`` mean anything to you as a phrase? ppl. drift apart just for as many reasons as they become closer. (imo)

#74, 75 stated that college campuses allow more freedom and you make “real” friends who share your newly discovered values. That is moot, colleges exist for experimentation and finding yourself. But students do grow up. Your ``real friends`` who shared your enthusiasms and other things college, too must have eventually ``grown up``. Is their value set still the same? I would think not, nothing is static. But eventually, when you get out of college, most people seek acceptance yet again in another grouping, this time with some permanence to it. they find themselves conforming to their surroundings, and eventually if that setting stays pretty much constant (ie not too many major upheavels in their life that warrant an about face), they end up with the values of people surrounding them, consciously or unconsciously imbibed. Friends who did not ``judge`` you in college, because you were all in the same boat - are they still free from the judgment taint today? They`ve been forced to become whatever they`ve surrounded themselves with, and so have you. And if you are not forced somehow or the other, you end up conforming anyway, just to ``blend in``, voluntarily, and out of need. Man is, after all, a social animal. He can`t live without the social order he is most comfortable with. If you changed your gender, religion, or sexual preferance, to me, those are the only things that can drastically change your personal lifelong value system because that means your thought patterns have changed - not developed but changed (there is a difference). Cancer cannot do that, a new wife cannot do that. Only you create a new, independent, ostracized self. Families come and go, friends come and go, societies come and go, health wealth come and go, but unless you reevalaute your entire existence and the learned prejudices that it is based upon, do a 360 degree shock to your system by being completely reborn, which includes reeducating your mentality, you`re still the same. you will form the same pro-con hohum judgments as everyone else, you converge. In the end, what you are basically doing is shedding one cloak for another. You think it is “more free”, but it is still just another form of the same repressed herd-mentality lifestyle you are leading..

five liters of ginger ale obfuscate things completely.

Re: # 86

really? why so?

aruna, freedom is just exchanging one suffocating cloak for another.

Re: # 81

Hey- Well, it all depends on how far you can go with the invisible cord that connects you to your family and social expectations. I did have those curiosities in India too- I desperately wanted to see the inside of a church and a mosque for example- but so many people in my city knew my family, and rest assured, news travels fast. I think I managed to visit the church, but I was so nervous.

I guess we are the gate keepers of our own prisons, and I could have been `free` in India if I was brave enough. But I was not. To me, coming here offered a new taste of freedom.

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i dont know what ails the desi boys..they for some reason seem to carry all kinds of odd-baggage .. 5000 yrs or civilization to simple notions like they have to be smarter than the `goras`. they are absolutely miserable..only thing they seem to enjoy is (window) shopping. there is so much to enjoy, but they seem all stressed out, while girls seem to just seem to enjoy themselves more. and they have a `sense` of freedom, and anticipation and like the array of deoderants available.

i asked a relative who was here to go skiing..or sailing..he thought its too expensive and not worth.then he goes and buys a gold coin. i dont know what it all means, but he became happy once he found a cricket club where other desis played cricket and then watched hindi movies over internet.

Hi, Aruna-I spent some of my childhood in England before my father decided he had to do his duty by his parents and moved back to India; and everything I lived through after that was coloured by my experience of living in the west. So I do have some understanding of the situation you were in.
A few thoughts, though-how much easier would it be for many people in this situation if their parents did not expect them to fall neatly back into their own (that is, the parent`s own) social slots? I don`t think it would have made much of a difference for me-my main problem was that I had lost my Bengali and Hindi-but I have seen it with cousins and acquaintances. Often-not always-people leave middle-class or lower middle-class, and return upper middle-class; they then expect their children to fit into their own previous lifestyles, but once you have known a better life, and maybe never known any other, it becomes very hard.
I also thought your experience of feeling free only in the US is reminiscent of novels by Bharati Mukherjee. I have never agreed with her in that, and I still think that just moving to another country doesn`t set you free. I know I carry some of my shackles with me, but it is the only way I can be at peace with myself; I have internalised some of my family`s expectations. But no one stops you from ordering a steak in Bombay or Calcutta or going to church; I decided myself that I should eat fewer, not more animals-I won`t eat kangaroo either-and have given up on religon, at least for now. Perhaps you were just ready to be set free and it happened in the US, but it could have happened anywhere.

Aruna

Nice write up.

``Most of all, she was exposed to a plethora of questions that began with `why?```

Would you share some of those questions with us, Aruna?

Re: # 69

I can imagine! Do you plan to write on that boarding school thing sometime?

Re: # 67

:)

Re: # 57

sorry...Jung then:)

#75 Amrita ``there`s this odd and unwarranted suspicion a lot of them seem to harbor for the `goras` ``
I hate that too, especially comments about ``goray log aise hote hain``. Even from people in a relationship with ``goras``.
I am bit suspicious about some of these white people though.

Re: # 65
kidbeegorilla - again, butting in here but... i think thats a simplistic view to take. i dont deny that women have it sticky almost everywhere they go but there`s still a difference. and a lot of it stems from how connected desis are to local society or the biradiri if you will and our definition and expectations of family as compared to the same in the states.

as for finding the same or roughly similar milieu once you move away - thats interesting. because i dont think that`s a given, i think it depends on who you are. most desis i know come over and immediately look around for the desi crowd and then slowly make friends outside that circle. and a lot of men, more than women, tend not to make really close friendships outside the desi crowd. there`s this odd and unwarranted suspicion a lot of them seem to harbor for the `goras` that i wish someone would explain to me [jang?]. but a lot of people will find friends - real ones, people who march to the same drummer, irrespective of ethnicity.

although i will agree that you`ll tend to know more people from your socio-economic milieu than not. but you`ll meet a wide variety on college campuses at least.

Re: # 64

Loaded question- had to think a bit. True, every individual no matter where she or he is judges. But that judgement happens on different levels in different countries. In India, when you`re with your family, and that family knows other families that do the same thing and stay within the same clique, adhering strictly to a tradition and way of life, a society is formed. In Abudhabi, this might have been a bit better because we didnt know as many families, but not by much at all. In the US however, most of us come in as students. As students, many of us are more lax with our `traditions`. True, we become attached to people of similar cultures- but there is a certain comraderie. Don`t get me wrong- lots of judgement flies around- but none of it can get as reputation-shattering or damaging. People talk, and then they don`t and one fine day, they don`t care- and that process is comparitively quicker. And with no elders around in your student life, things can feel more free and less rule-bound.

#68 by ali_1 #68

[...while secretly drooling over .... ``...... and temptingly delicious men``]

Ali, we all KNOW your propensities; you don`t have to trumpet them on Chowk.

Unless you are trolling for gay dates!

Re: # 70

Hmmm- those are valid comments. I would disagree with you on the unruliness factor however. I have seen Indian kids be the same if not worse. I think we assumed the worst of them because we could not understand them.

My parents might have put me in an Indian school to keep with the CBSE syllabus, true. But I always got the impression it was to huddle close to our people. Comfort zones.

You`re right- I`m not a parent. I would have no idea about parental perspective, though I could speculate. Bringing up a child is a very tricky thing to do- in this day and age. But I wanted to publish my perspective on it. Understanding why parents do something does not make it easier to stop asking questions, or wonder. Again, people in my very situation have reacted to things very differently. Maybe I just asked questions that mattered more to me.

Hmm- praying in a church and going to a steak house. I wouldn`t call those growing experiences. But I have learnt more about my self from that kind of experimentation. I think those choices are a result of evolution. I have grown, but not because of experiences like that.

To my 10 year old mind, the only solution to fitting in was to act like the people around me, granted that i did have more than they did. I did dress up differently, left my fancy pencil purses at home, and brought Indian lunches. I don`t know how much it helped. I was still called `foreign ponnu` (girl). It might have been superfluous. I mean- I certainly can`t imagine doing something like that now.

Why confused now? :) Many reasons including constant doubts about whether I`m doing the right thing, where I`ll live a few years from now- but lets stash that for another day:)

Ref scout #41

[Re: # 40

why are you so upset that she prays in a church?]

Good. Since you are all for interfaith praying, how about going to the Ganesh Temple in Flushing on Fridays? Hey, we let women into our temples!

I would agree with your dad that arab kids are more unruly. My experience would be in malls of dubai & kuwait. I had seen 10-12 y.o. over weight kids running around with cell phones in their hand. But this is atleast 11 years ago. And also people tend to follow rules more strictly in other countries then their own.
You being sent to kuwait indian school would be that it would be easy for you to adjust for future education in India. As one never knows when one might have to return to India.
I highly doubt that your parents would not know the culture or society you would be exposed if you live in other country. I find it bit naive but then dont know about your parents.
Since you are not a parent (just an assumption, might not be true), you would not realize what parents go through to make sure that their kid have proper upbringing. Asking one to wear a bindi and bowing to their parents whenever they leave for school or work is a way for them to know and follow what they think is appropriate.
For Indians atleast a decade ago a ticket out of India was a ticket to financial success. That might have made anyone jealous of you. I have no idea what to think of your trying to act poor. It just does not fit my idea of any kid now or 10 years ago. It sounds very superfluous. But then it your view and your have every right for it.
Do you consider your transition from vegetarian hindu to ordering medium well steak and going to a church a growing up experience?
Finally, what are you confused about now?
It was fun reading your article.

So I guess nobody here stayed in a strict boarding school? And then went absolutely beserk on moving to the freedom in College hostel? Anyone? Takes around a decade to recover sometimes.

I suppose it is confusing moving between different cultures. And its not just from one country to another. Its equally confusing moving between the different states in India. Why for some it could be within a city from one suburb to another. It how we let the experience affect us that is important. It can be culturally enriching or we can sit around and whinge. Either way it will make us feel better.

You`re a cutie pie, at least in the pic that you have posted. God Bless.

Why are these geriatric old farts from VHP/RSS so upset? C`mon unkill(s), its not her fault that you have spent all your years in the US eating aloo bhindi at Bharat Restaurant, while the smell from the BBQ grill made you tizzy..... or that you have settled with your arranged java programmer fatass bride while secretly drooling over (depending on your taste) ``extremely pretty women and temptingly delicious men`` who made you yank your li`l bhindi to death.

Aruna, just a word of advice. No need to answer each and every interactor who feels he needs to leak on your parade here. Stuka`s comment - pay no mind to the bile filled tambis is spot on (LOL).

Nicely written, I thought. Very honest and not at all pretentious. You`re lucky you kept an open mind through all that ``indoctrination``:)

Keep writing....

``Cultural divides were so deep that when we passed a Pakistani or an Arabic school bus on our way back home, a kid in their bus would spit on our window, and a kid in ours would spit at their window. I don`t think any of us understood why. But my curiosity was slowly overwhelming my desire to keep my head straight and ignore the white gob of spit oozing outside my window. I remember examining the ooze once. Maybe we didn`t like them because they ate something gross.``
Nice!

# 54 aruna Another thing is that Desi (Indian,Pakistani) society is more judgemental with females than it is with males. The total absence of that society can be refreshing and relieving.

aren`t other societies - eg, American, Chinese, European etc.. - just as judgmental? And every society discriminates based on gender to some degree. There are desis in the US aplenty. If you left one set of asian society back home, did you not attach yourself to another (eventually roughly similar) set here, with your comfort level of values, mores and censures, assuming of course that you have neither changed your religion, gender nor sexual preference?

# 54 aruna Another thing is that Desi (Indian,Pakistani) society is more judgemental with females than it is with males. The total absence of that society can be refreshing and relieving.

aren`t other societies - eg, American, Chinese, European etc.. - just as judgmental? And every society discriminates based on gender to some degree. There are desis in the US aplenty. If you left one set of asian society back home, did you not attach yourself to another (eventually roughly similar) set here, with your comfort level of values, mores and censures, assuming of course that you have neither changed your religion, gender nor sexual preference?

Re: # 62: don`t be flip, Kulharee!!! I am as sensitive to Saudi princess` needs as the next guy. Even more so, if I can boast. Not only will I kiss her on both cheeks, I will also ask her daddy to kiss my cheeks as well, if you know what I mean. ;-)

Friday is good, drinks in midtown afterwork.

Re: # 61

Chaltoo… name the place and time, and I will bring both verities.

By Cultural Fkups I meant fking up by the way of not realizing customs or cultural idiosyncrasies of a given place or culture. E.g., me kissing on the cheeks of a Saudi Princess at a party in presence of her daddy who is Saudi Ambassador. I should be sensitive to Saudi customs to do it in private. Don’t you think?

For you may be everything Chaltahai, but I know better.

Re: # 53; Cultural fk ups? SHow me a pure culturist Kulharee and I will show you a fk up.

Re: # 54: In relation to arab society? I do not think that the desi society is any more misogynistic or judgemental than the arab world. Look, sleeping with your cousin is not good family values.

#52..#2 as reason will do just fine ;-)

i think you ladies agree then..in india boys get a lot of freedom not available to girls (e.g. staying out late or overnight with ``friends`` is no big deal for boys).

Re: # 53

Sounds great. I`ll pick it up after I finish the one I`m reading- `Veronika Decides to Die`. Do read The Alchemist if you have not.
There is an upcoming blog for the culturally confused or curious- www.nationless.blogspot.com
check it out sometime.

Re: # 54

>>>>Is that a newer perspective for you Jang?<<<<

Aruna, that line is so funny. But it is spelled Jungian perspective (Jung with a U, and not an A).

Re: # 49

:)

Re: # 48

Hi Icha, You`re right. I don`t feel like I belong to any particular city either. Maybe just a little to the city I did college in here in the US, but thats because I navigated on my own, did all the ground work, and made choices in that city. Try this link- www.nationless.blogspot.com
It is an upcoming interactive blog for the nationless ones like us:)

Re: # 50

Amrita put it all so well. Sometimes I feel like women and men look at education and life in the US in different ways. I am from a semi-conservative family in which men still earn money for the family. Women do too- but they`re not the `bread winners`. Thats why in arranged marriages, the first criteria is the guy`s job. Never the girl`s. This has a point-I promise:) So in coming to the United States, my male friends feel a sense of responsibility more than anything else. There is freedom, but for the most part, that`s nothing new. Most men didnt have strict curfews at home anyway. A lot of us women on the other hand, did. So for some of us girls, this whole who-cares-if-I-come-back-home-at-5-am thing is a winner deal! And I for one, made full use of the freedom.

Another thing is that Desi (Indian,Pakistani) society is more judgemental with females than it is with males. The total absence of that society can be refreshing and relieving. Helps us socialize, make choices, and dare to be ourselves more.

Is that a newer perspective for you Jang?

Aruna

A little side-tracking.

There’s a book (Motoring with Mohammad – Eric Hanson) that I read some time ago. A young American in the 70s buries his travel writings in desert of Yemen and goes back after many years to recover them. It’s an excellent book, and those who like reading about cultural fk ups (customs and etc.) would enjoy it.

Re: # 50

i knew you`d appreciate it :P. re: the liberation issue... its not so much moving to the states, as it is moving out of your parents` home. speaking personally and for my friends, most of us moved out when we turned 18 and we lived on our own in Indian cities as well as western [and some eastern] cities and it wasnt geography as much as the heady feeling of being independent or quasi independednt given the fact we were still being supported by our parents. but you live on your own, no curfews [unless you land up in a hostel run by nuns or a very strict pg or something horrible like that], pay your own bills, learn to deal with people and situations, and you`re not such a princess any more. not that shielded, not that protected. sometimes its a drag. but mostly, it makes you feel worthwhile. of course, the downside is that you can never really go back - you might feel like getting pampered at home for short periods of time but after that, its hard to live by other people`s rules when you`ve been making em for a while.

i know what you`re thinking though - and sex isnt the number one reason, you perv! :)

Aruna,

Lively, thought provoking piece that speaks to possibilities of living in and negotiating several constructed worlds simulataneously. Keep that sense of wonder and open mindedness, and keep writing!

#49 thanks amrita for 49, somehow i knew you know the answer.. can you now tell the REAL reason for sense of liberation ;-)

i agree guys spend almost a year claiming that thums up tastes better and chinese food is unedible (and attempting to put garam-masala in tuna-salad sandwich)..

hey aruna - this was a fun read. i can kind of relate to this just by being born and then growing up in different parts of india and then moving west and traveling all over. language is dfintely a huge factor in determining how well you fit in. and then there are the sanctimonous types like the ones you`ve already met on this board who`re always ready to presume that they know every single blessed thing about you based on a few hundred words you typed out. dont let em get you down. looking forward to more.

jang - this wasnt directed to me, but if i may: a lot of the guys seem to suffer from violent homesickness. they want things to be exactly the way it was back home: mummy`s cooking, maid cleaning up, etc. and they get so caught up in recreating the world back home that they forget to explore the one in which they`re living. the girls tend to be a lot less fussy. then there`s the fact that a lot of them arrive in america expecting a mix of hollywood and nyc and end up living in some small college town and have no idea how to deal with this huge shift between imagination and reality. plus, in some ways it just easier for girls coz we`re prettier and cleaner and smell better and are less likely to be mistaken for terrorists :D

I was born in Libya, moved to Dubai and finally moved to Karachi when I was 15. School consisted of girls referring to me as either `Dubaaai` or more often `dubayee ka maal`. Worst 1 and a half years of my life. College was an improvement, I suppose we were older and I had learned to hide my ignorance better.
I had the absolute other problem though. I knew no Pakistanis other than family, went to an Indian school and as a result ended up having only Indian, or a couple of Arab friends. My dad put me in what he believed was a good school and forgot all about it. So adjusting back home turned out to be monumental. Its fine now, ofcourse but I dont think ill ever have that absolute devotion so many people feel for their cities, ever.
Great article, I could never manage to put it so well :)

#20 by Urstruly on October 25, 2005 12:34pm PT

I think Aruna has grown up just fine and mature, however, some of you people need lots of growing up to do. Must you insult each and every soul you come across to get noticed? I am pretty sure you must possess some positive creative abilities to share with us. Just try for once for crying out loud.


Yup, agree 100%. Now the Hindutva fanatics will call me Dhimmified for agreeing with a Mullah :0)

aruna,
i thunks that educated middle-classindian girls (women) somehow feel an inexplicable sense of ``freedom`` after coming to the US. boys (men) dont seem to feel the same. why do you think that is (if you agree with it)?

Re: # 43
Thanks for answering :-)

Re: # 40
Hi Harimau-

I can see why you`d think that I wanted to convert to blend in. That wasn`t the case. I just find churches more peaceful than temples. I like my holy surroundings to be private. I get that privacy in a corner pew at 3 pm in the afternoons...

A

Re: # 42

I guess it has a lot to do with my friends, and the fact that I never believed I had the drive to come this far. I always wonder what it was that pushes me. It has a lot to do with my family life, years of observation (Abudhabi, compared to India, is pretty lonely socially- you tend to observe), and well, random thoughts. Thanks for asking!

Aruna

Aruna, this was a nice read. Just wondering, how often do you think about your childhood experiences and how they have shaped you viz a viz the situations you come across in your adult life? Are there any specific incidents which trigger this walk down memory lane?

Re: # 40

why are you so upset that she prays in a church?

Aruna wrote [I pray my but I do so in a church.]

Why? Can`t you haul your butt off to a Hindu temple? Or do you want to ``blend in``?

People like you are better off converting to another religion and not try to recall your upbringing.

I am only surprised that you don`t go to a mosque to pray, having ``inbibed`` Islamic culture in Arabia, but I guess they won`t let you in without a hijab.

Aruna,

This was wonderful. Thank you.

Aruna,

This was wonderful. Thank you.

Sweet and honest- enjoyed reading it!

#35

man, I bet you remind her of her father right now :)

Aruna wrote:
``While the temple question sounds very noble, it says nothing about the person`s values. Everyone has values....``
You are being evasive here...
Sute everyone has values ...osama-bin-laden has his values, jinnah had his values
and Mahatma Gandhi had his values. Even a MTV rap artist has his own values. The
question is what are thos values what do you do with those values ?
How are those values translated into action ?
Ask your supposed ``best-friend`` if she/he will be as accomodative as
you in praying ? - that answer will indeed say a lot about the values of your ``friend``.

What you have said till now, shows that you are just a ``retrospective`` whiner.
About spitting in US - go listen to AM Talk radio - you will know.
Let us see who will support you when you are down. Maybe you should lose your
job for a few months to know who will stand by you.
You have been in the US 2 years and you know diddly squat about the US or
anyting else that is intellectual and substantial.
For your parents who tried to do their best for you - you trivialize and mock them on
trivialities. That shows your values.

If you are smart ( i do think that with effort *even you* can improve yourself) - you
will be grateful for the efforts of your parents and go thank them. If you are like the
usual mediocrity, you will wait to be in your middle age to realize the values that
your parents tried to teach you and how you messed up. If you are a dumbo, you will
spend the rest of your life, writing this kind of drivel and accusing your parents.
The choice is yours finally.

Good luck with your onward journey. I am glad you are free to explore your horizons and not have to be boxed into any fixed notion of identity.

It sounds like your parents did what they could, but that you didn`t have access to resources that might have smoothed your path. It is too bad there aren;t books and
discussion groups for young people in your situation.

I know several families where the daughters were ``sent`` to India at some stage in their education. In every case there were severe challenges as a result.

At a minimum your note will raise awareness of the fact that following traditional models for family life while otherwise pursuing no-holds-barred capitalism may lead to a lot of confusion.

Re: # 30:

Aruna:

I don`t want to sound condescending.. But your replies show that you are still confused.. Don`t take it in the bad sense...

Coming to the United States has not made me American. It has merely given me the opportunity to step out of my religious and cultural beliefs and brave the world to find out what else it has to offer. It has also given me the freedom to weigh all my options and choose a lifestyle that preserves my cultural conservatism, but intellectual and religious freedom.


You don`t have to come to the US to gain intellectual/religious freedoms. Maybe certain households in India are very strict and conservative, but not all. You can step out of your religious and cultural beliefs even within India. There is no ``blasphemy`` law to kill you. The reason why you think US has given you the freedom is because you came to the US at the right age where you have begun to assert your independence. It could have as well happened in India..

Re: # 18

My reply was just based on the fact that you blamed my intellect on my career choices.

Everyone`s parents do a certain bit of damage to them, unknowingly of course. Some of us retaliate by making an effort to be different from them- like if your mom worries too much, chances are that you don`t ever want to be like that, and hence are different. I wasn`t blaming mine. Blame only happens when you believe that you`re doomed for good because of something someone did. I was just stating the facts that I thought have led me to think the way I do.

I am by no means cool, nor am i trying to be. I think I left that attempt at high school where it belongs.

While the temple question sounds very noble, it says nothing about the person`s values. Everyone has values- I was just trying to strike common grounds with the people of my age- which at that time was very difficult, because there weren`t many common grounds. Again- this was a retrospective piece. You learn different ways to make friends as you grow older.

And lastly- language!

aruna

Re: # 16

hey! Glad to know you went to St.Jo`s too. I was in Kuwait until 1990 however. but i did join that school from the 6th through the 9th grade.

Re: # 15

I was 10 when the Kraft cheese thing came up. And it felt like everyone wanted it. I know it was juvenile, but I was a kid. Was just trying to be honest.

When it comes to friends, everyone is looking for common grounds. Everyone has likes and dislikes. I went to school in he gulf, where all my friends knew my tv shows. We spent many a free class discussing Luke Perry, or someone cuter- like every teenager I know does. So making friends in India was tough. And that being said, `Luke Perry` is not to be taken literally. I didnt go around asking people if they knew Luke Perry. I just meant that conversationally, people were not on the same plane as me.
Everyone had fallen in love with all things American when Cable television came to be. Thats why even parts of India are becoming `westernized` as my parents put it so often. Again, to 15 year old midsets, it feels like no one understands them...they always look for ways to escape. Wishing my life was different was my way of escapism.

Coming to the United States has not made me American. It has merely given me the opportunity to step out of my religious and cultural beliefs and brave the world to find out what else it has to offer. It has also given me the freedom to weigh all my options and choose a lifestyle that preserves my cultural conservatism, but intellectual and religious freedom.

Re: # 13

Went to school here. Work now:)

Re: # 11

India, Pakistan, and Canada?Wow. Are you Libyan?

Re: # 8

Interesting- no idea. Haven`t been there in ages. maybe that was a post-gulf war thing.

Re: # 5
lol! thinking like a camel? Thats funny. Are you from pakistan?

Re: # 1

Hey Nadia-

I was about 10 when I went to India and studied there for a while. I wanted to fit in I guess. My way of dressing and talking was different, and it made it hard to fit in. And children aren`t very sympathetic when they`re 10, which resulted in me making the effort. It might have been the wrong effort, but I didnt know that then. Luke Perry hppened much later:) Sorry about the typo with the prayer- any way i can change that?
Aruna

Re: # 23

I think language was a huge barrier. And people are scared of what they don`t know . My dad was just trying to protect me. Infact, not many Indians I know from where I lived, spoke to any Arab. It was more convenient to not have to break a barrier...

Nice piece Aruna. I am curious to learn why the segregation on behalf of your parents. I mean, your father went to arabia and obviously worked with arabs...did the influences and his experiences drive him to keep you from intermingling with the locals?

Kulharee, I am sorry that you are a ahmadi. :-p

Very nice, Aruna. Loved your honesty and free-spiritedness (and your little gugloo picture.)

``Cultural divides were so deep that when we passed a Pakistani...school bus on our way back home, a kid in their bus would spit on our window, and a kid in ours would spit at their window.

Quite evident at Chowk! Somethings never change!

awwww,...is that you in the picture?...shoooo cute..:)
I enjoyed your write up. I guess i can, kind of, relate to it ...:).

I think Aruna has grown up just fine and mature, however, some of you people need lots of growing up to do. Must you insult each and every soul you come across to get noticed? I am pretty sure you must possess some positive creative abilities to share with us. Just try for once for crying out loud.

Re: # 18

Saty.. are you sure you read the same article that everyone else read? May be you are looking at the censored version of it (if you are in Soodi Rabia) where all the explicit terms (where Aruna talks ill of her parents in somewhat graphic terms) have been blocked out.

I think it is a pretty nice piece of work. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. I don’t think that it requires any kind of psychoanalysis of her on your part. Some people will find holes in everything no matter what. And yes, having a Pakistani best friend is cool, because cool Pakis are very hard to find.

Aruna,

hmm...your response shows indeed that you need to widen your intellect horizon.
Those websites say nothing about anything intellectual. A punk rocker is a punk-rocker
he/she may create a tune - but that doesnt mean he/she is smart and intellectual.

Your writing and the trivial incidents shows the shallowness of your intellect.
You think having a Pakistani best-friend is something great ? you could equally
have had a best friend from timbuktu. So what ?

What values do you stand for ?
You dont know much about anything, but sneer at others - because they did not know
some stupid tv show ?
You are probably even at this age embarassed by your parents. There is also a
chance you want to try to be `ccol` ,you will probably sneer at other Indians.
Look inside yourself, dont judge people on their knowledge of tv-shows, find out
values they stand for. For eg: Ask your best friend if she/he is willing to go to
a temple and pray, just like how you go to a church to pray. From their answer, you
will know where he/she stands. You will know her/his values.

You have to grow up and become more mature in this world. If I were you - go to your
parents and thank them for being successful in turning a moron like you into an
average shallow individual and making it possible for more brain-development.

Re: # 16

Can you not tell from the photo she placed?

aruna...
please dont tell me you went to st. joseph in abudhabi in the early eighties. we had one aruna in grade 4 with us, who had come from kuwait . adnan sami the little guploo was also in our class. please drop me a line (will provide the email addy if you are the same aruna).

``This piece is not intended to blame anyone like a few comments suggest, nor is it intended to reveal my lack of intellect- which by all means has room for growth.``

---

nice to know.. But reading these lines I thought otherwise..

I did not feel like an Indian. I had been exposed to a very different culture despite my parents` many efforts to protect me from it, and this was proving to be such a lonely experience. Nobody understood my jokes, no one had watched Beverly Hills 90210, everyone was jealous of my creamy kraft-cheese and bread lunch, and they all thought I was rich and spoilt just because I came from `foreign`.
......
Two years ago I moved to the United States. I met Pakistanis, Arabs, and Americans. And no one spat at each other. This was great! A lot of freedom and a wide palette of friends made me slowly discover that I belonged to an entirely different culture.

Maybe what the other students in India thought about you was right. Did you ever imagine that possibility?. Anyone with an average intellect would figure out that kids in a typical indian city school are more into their local cultural stuff (like local movies/TV serials/cricket etc..) than Beverley Hills 90210. (There may be some exceptions. It is unfortunate that you did not end up in such schools). How can you assert that everyone was jealous of your creamy kraft-cheese??. :-)). You are probably brought up in a strict conservative house-hold with their archaic rules and practices.. By any chance, have you been discriminated and made an ``untouchable`` in those ``3 days``??.. I can understand the feeling of ``rebellion``. But my advise to you still stands. While enjoying the ``freedoms`` (sexual/dating/and other things) US has to offer, make sure you don`t take hasty decisions that might come and haunt you in the future.. You have fallen in love with all things ``American`` from the day Star TV arrived in your life. American shows featuring extremely pretty women and temptingly delicious men . Nothing wrong with that.. Now that you are in the environment you like, you are feeling like you are in the natural habitat (no more feeling like a ``fish out of water`` ).

Giving up on bindi and vegetarian habits are small things, but try to go soft on your parents.

Nice write up. Would like to see more.

Nicely written! So do you go to school in the US now?

I`m glad that a bunch of you have had similar experiences. What we live through everyday makes us what we are. I think it is ok to be confused. Everyone is, a few admit it. This piece is not intended to blame anyone like a few comments suggest, nor is it intended to reveal my lack of intellect- which by all means has room for growth. It is just a truthful weave of events that I think led me to where I am. Thanks for the encouragement Nadia, Syke, Kulharee, Stuka, Dost-mittar, kidbeegorilla and ally. Truly appreciate it.

And Satyamvada, nice of you to be so honest. However, I must encourage you to look at websites like www.devicefonts.co.uk and www.aiga.org, so that you understand the thought, talent and creativity that goes into a design profession.

Aruna.. it was a joy to read your article. A less talented writer could have turned this piece into a hoj-poj of unrelated thoughts and experiences. But you managed to keep things flowing very nicely.

As for those who think you are confused.. I would rather be continually exposed to new people and ideas that challenge me.. confuse me.. until I sort out through things myself. Rather than never leaving my cocoon.. which is what happens to many people who spend their entire lives in one place.

As for myself, I was born in Libya.. then moved to India, Pakistan, and finally to Canada.

Aruna,

This was a refreshing change from all the other samey style articles that go up on the front page. Forget what the nasties are saying here, they always say it.

At least you are thinking about things and trying to put them in perspective. In any case it was a lovely, light article that read better than most here.

The little baby pic is cute!

Take care
A

don`t fret, aruna, you`re not alone. every middle eastern expat i have come across resonates like you.

Hi Aruna:

Thanks for sharing your varied life experiences. I was unaware of the feelings of animosity among Indians, Arabs and Pakistanis living in the Gulf area. Most Indians who go there do so for making money only; in any case I do not think that these countries are willing to give citizenship to Indians even if they were born and lived there all their lives. Your experience in the US shows why Western countries are the best bet for anyone wanting to live outside his/her country and fortunate enough to be able to do so.

BTW is it true that Indian schools in Kuwait are required to blackout all references to Ram, Krishna or any other Hindu deities from their books?

Hey, great read. And yes, the complete freedom and integration in the states is awesome.

P.S. Pay no mind to the bile filled Tambis.

It seems to me that you are naive enough not to have any values.
You just dont have the self-confidence to stand up for anything,
since you dont have any values. You felt lonely because you others did not
understand jokes ? so did you try to understand theirs ?
You find it ok to eat similiar food to what americans eat in order to fit in
- but you complain about having to eat what other indians ate to fit in ?
It seems to me that the problem is with you yourself , but blame others. You are
more Paki than you realize :)

You work as a graphic-designer, so your colleages, I presume are not going to be
the most `intellectual` in any sense to understand societies and thinkiing.
Like Masanamuthu says, hopefully you will mature and find out that the basics that
your parents may have insisted will serve you wll in the long run. This happens
to most people - it will happen to you as well.

This is beautiful. I think no other region has messed up South Asian Desi kids as much as the Arabian Gulf. Indians expats and their kids coming from that region tend to be better adjusted, because India is a culturally rich nation with a big mix of cultural idiosyncrasies. Same cannot be said for Pakistanis living in/returning from the Gulf. They tend to be idiots with their heads firmly placed up in some Wahabi ideology with little or no regard for Pakistani culture or customs. I once almost wanted to beat the crap out of my friend in Lahore who came back from Saudi Arabia and refused to accompany me (and I am an Ahmadi) to Data Sahib (Patron Saint of Lahore) on the grounds that visiting his grave was a “Biddah” (whatever the fk that means). I think The Arab Gulf is a place where kids gets brainwashed into thinking like a camel. Aruna, I am so pleased to see that that region didn’t succeed in corrupting your mind.

I have experiences similar to those of Aruna, but from the other side - the parent`s side.

When I moved to Dubai my daughters were 9 and 6. Not knowing whether I would last in the Middle East, I put them in an Indian school which followed the ICSC syllabus. Hence all their friends, except the 3 daughters of our neighbour, an Iraqi with an English wife, were Indians. The school was segregated, and the syllabus completely Indian with Arabic thrown in (which my daughters learnt to read but not to speak - speaking Arabic was not required for getting good grades). They had to memorise meaningless information, e.g. the height of the Qutb Minar.

When my girls were 14 and 11, I moved to Muscat. There is no ICSC school in Muscat, and hence my wife and I decided to put them in an International school, which followed the IB programme.

There was a sea change in my girls thereafter. The kids in the school came from 43 different countries. My daughters went hiking in the wadis in a small group with a map, a compass, and a 14 Kg back-pack. My elder girl climbed Mt Kilimanjaro. My younger one went all over the Middle East playing football (soccer) for her school. They managed Fashion shows. They had sleepovers at our home.

The result was a total emanc