Bye Bye NAM, Hello Realpolitik!

Re: # 351

raw,

........ i agree with you that the army has raped and pillaged pakistan and continues to do so .......... i also agree that kashmir needs to be put on the back burner as an ``open issue``........... so what the heck are we arguing about ? .........

#346 by mohar11 on October 31, 2005 7:53am PT


Even otherwise, he is symptomatic of why Muslims in India have remained backward, poor, and to some extent, paranoid


So he`s on his way to becoming a brit-paki(or a US-Paki for that matter...they`re poorer, less educated and more likely to be jihadis too)...

re:#335 by Netizen
NATO`s presence will serve some useful purpose.
1. Keeping a close watch on Pak`s jehadi activities. Remember, Pak is a ground for global jehad and not just Kashmir based jehad.
2. Keeping a close watch on China`s activities. Nobody here or anyother forum has mentioned one important piece of info. The Karakoram Highways built by China connecting its land to POK lies in ruins following the Quake. China hoped to be able to connect to Pak and thence to the Independent Caucases.
3. Nuclear facilities (underground ) bulit in the Quake hit areas seem to have survived but with some damage. Again, NATO will be close by to keep a watch.
NATO does not care about India but India`s strategic equation with US has changed. Otherwise India would have made a lot of noise. One heard only some shrill noise from I.K.Gujral. The guy actually quoted Saddam Hussein as telling him (when India was cosying upto Iraq) that India was invaded by Britain because of cotton and Iraq was being invaded by US due to Oil. I am sure that carries a lot of conviction !!
Sridhar

Pakistan Army is also the biggest, most-organized feudal institution sititng on all the prime-estate locations within the major cities not to mention Tamgha-e-Imtiaz Military and land-holdings in the lower Punjab. Pakistan Army also works with feudal class to further mutual agendas.

Musharraf was ready to make a deal with Makhdoom Amin Fahim(well-known feudal and spiritual leader from Sindh) in last sham-elections as a prime minister when the latter relent cos of Benazir. Right now, Shujaat Hussain of Gujrat, one of the success stories of crony corruption in Pakistan is Pak. Army`s right hand man. Then, on chowk we have to put up with self-styled patriots like Romair and company.

hamidm:
my point is very simple: Pakistan`s last legitimate position on Kashmir was in Lahore declaration 1999. You can see there were no riots and beatings happened when Nawaz Sharif conceded that Kashmir was not the pre-condition to a better relations to India and Pakistan (by acknowledging Kashmir as One of many issues on the table). And this was pre-9./11 and pre-moderately enlightened psuedo-secular fever - we are talking about.

What Musharraf and Army junta did as a result in 1999 is for all to see. Please, dont use pakistani peoples as an excuse for your own ignorance of reality.

By the way, Army is the biggest beneficiary of the whole India-Islam-in-danger enterprise.

delhiwala:

On Kashmir, India has to find realistic solutions. The only way to win Kashmiri Muslims` hearts is to win the hearts of Indian Muslims, for which it should, at minimum, provide them with a sense of security of life and property. If they cannot win their hearts and they are unwilling to make a demographic change a la POK or Tibet, what is the point of keeping a hostile state within the union?

I think India is already moving in the direction of giving more power to the states. Indeed, the constitution does give states jurisdiction in areas directly affecting the welfare of the people, the problem is that the Central government, especially, under Indira Gandhi did not respect state rights. Fortunatley, this is now changing as regional parties and politicians have become more powerful even at the centre.

HP:

Thanks for the response. You could come back and substantiate your allegations, but you didn`t. I dont mind being called an RSS pracharak but I would like to know the basis on which you make such statements. Labelling people is no substitute for evidence. Otherwise, you are no different from those who call me Paki/Muslim asslickers for agreeing with some Pakistani chowkies or their viewpoints.

Ahmadzai:
Please let me know if you are visiting Ottawa.

#343 by dost-mittar

“I too am frustrated with HP and hindvi calling names and making accusations and, when responded to, vanishing into thin air.”

If your comments are worth a response, they will be responded and if your comments are like this:

“as soon as you start taking any pride in Pre-Islamic India, you enter that list, regardless of how much you hate saffron brigade.” Dost Mitter

You surely won’t see any response because you are making up stuff and writing something totally out of context. So save some breath and write something that makes sense and you will get a response.

...And I always don`t have time to respond to ridiculeous posts anyway.

Re: # 318
DM Sir,
In Overcrowded India Land is the prized commodity. Nobody in the world wants to give up any land. Wheather it is ``Ramu the Dhobi`` or ``Jumman the Taylee`` or any Government.

Pakistan wants Kashmir for its Land and Water resources and complete linkage with China, and also because India broke Pakistan in 1971.
In my opinion, India would have to do somthing like what USA/Canada has in terms of State/Federal structure. They deal with each other as if they were seperate countries.

Last week I was sitting with my Punjabi friends who were talking about Water resources and SYL Canal problem issue. General sentiment was that Water is the State subject in Indian ``Sanvidhan`` and Punjab considers water as its main natural resource.
The argument was, Punjab would share its water with other states if they shared their resources on same percentage(per diem basis), Bihar would have to share its Coal Income, Karnatak would have to share its Gold Mines and so on.

I think it is about time that India looked at its States with economic satisfaction as being the main priority. People in Kashmir should be allowed on their own to develop their own Tourism, people in Assam should be allowed to make their decision about Oil.

Just like the arrangement between Rich Alberta and Poor Nova Scotia or Ontario. Alberta gets to share its surplus wealth with other provinces.

Re: # 343 DM and Net

Like I said - Hindvi Mian has already crossed over to the dark side..... I won`t be surprised if he turns out to be the first suicide bomber of Indian extraction.....

Even otherwise, he is symptomatic of why Muslims in India have remained backward, poor, and to some extent, paranoid..... As an educated member of the muslim community, he should be out there exhorting the community to come of their self-imposed ghetto-mentality - but instead this guy has been baying at the moon.... shouting the same old boogeyman bullsh!t....

This guy is a lost case......

#337 by HisExcellency on October 30, 2005 8:40pm PT


1. SJB`s theory is based on counterfactual analyses, instead of established cause-effect analyses. Instead of starting with facts and then concluding an effect from these causes,


Kinda like you concluding Kashmir is a millstone around India`s neck?

If anything, India has surpassed Pakistan during the 15 years of the Kashmir insurgency. ACts of terrorism have done nothing to deter Indias spectacular success story in IT...did you read about Cisco`s recent investment in India? They`ll have more R&D engineers in India than in the US. Even Huawei, the company tied to the chinese military, gets more work done in Indian than in Pakistan..

OTOH, Pakiland is stuck on 40 million $/yr...

Is it any surprise that there is no paki corporate success story like Infosys/Wipro/Reliance etc?

#326 by hamidm2 on October 30, 2005 3:13pm PT


it is myth that the army alone is the only party in pakistan that wants to keep the kashmir issue alive and has managed to do it all by itself


The myth, among pakis mostly but a few indian bleeding hearts too, is that it`s only some sections of the paki junta that supports terrorism as a tactic...

The fact is that a wide majority of pakis support the use of Islamic terrorism...

Netizen#342:

I too am frustrated with HP and hindvi calling names and making accusations and, when responded to, vanishing into thin air. It has happened frequently enough that I am beginning to think that it is not a coincidence.

Re: # 340

hindvi miya will not be seen for some time now. his accusations that rss/bjp were involved has gone terribly wrong. it will be hard for him to justify it now, as muslims never do such things. they are only ``wrongfully`` implicated by the zionists/RAW/modi.

Re: # 336

Behram:

the scenario does exist. or else none of us would be on chowk discussing matters/topics from india/pakistan. i am not be personally there but my family, relatives are. even romair who is in canada is as much pakistani at heart as i am indian.

this example was to give you an idea of the situation and how ridiculous it is for pak to assume that it has no responsibility for its action, even though indirect ones.

even if you are not a representative of pakistan, i hope you see the logic in calling a spade a spade. unless it is done, the jihadi machine will claim more innocent lives.

thanks for your concern for the dead and the suffering, as a human being.

#279 by hindvi

[there are many successful muslims in India, but they are those who atleast had some base i.e. were from the middle or upper middle classes, the vast bulk continues to lead a most miserable existence as rickshaw pullers or workers.]

So please tell us what base did Dr. Abdul Kalam have. AFAIK, Kalam`s dad was a fisherman. What base did Irfan Pathan and Zaheer Khan have? Pathan`s dad is a Maulvi at a mosque in Ahmedabad (?) and Zaheer Khan too is from a not-too-well off family.

Are any of the examples I gave above from the middle class?