Bye Bye NAM, Hello Realpolitik!

`` Pakiland is still supporting, arming and funding the terrorist groups. If they cut back on providing covering fire for infiltration, it`s more because the jihad strategy was hurting them(the bomb attacks on mushy) than the goodness in their hearts and a genuine aversion to terrorism,

for the Dictator and Paki Junta, jihadis are like a bargaining chip and a definitive bet to keep their occupation of Pakistan going.

#313 by godot on October 30, 2005 9:53am PT

Here`s my point of view:

- Pakiland is still supporting, arming and funding the terrorist groups. If they cut back on providing covering fire for infiltration, it`s more because the jihad strategy was hurting them(the bomb attacks on mushy) than the goodness in their hearts and a genuine aversion to terrorism,

- Anyone who thinks the paki establishment and the military - and indeed most pakis - don`t support the kind of terrorists attacks we saw yesterday is living in lala land..

- All this peace process thing is BS and nothing is going to come out of it. 50+ dead in Delhi only strengthens the resolve of the Indian state and the Indian people to do whatever it takes to kill the terrorists...

So how long before hindvi calls me a fascists for posting this?

Christian girls beheaded in grisly Indonesian attack

Three teenage Christian girls were beheaded and a fourth was seriously wounded in a savage attack on Saturday by unidentified assailants in the Indonesian province of Central Sulawesi.

The girls were among a group of students from a private Christian high school who were ambushed while walking through a cocoa plantation in Poso Kota subdistrict on their way to class, police Major Riky Naldo said.

The area is close to the provincial capital of Poso, about 1000 kilometres northeast of Jakarta.

Naldo said the heads of the three dead victims were found several kilometres from their bodies.

Christian leaders have repeatedly accused the authorities in Jakarta of not doing enough to find the perpetrators and bring them to justice.

The Christian-Muslim conflict in Sulawesi was an extension of a wider sectarian war in the nearby Maluku archipelago in which up to 9000 perished between 1999 and 2002.

The Maluku conflict intensified soon after it began with the arrival of volunteers belonging to Laskar Jihad, a newly created militia from Indonesia`s main island of Java that was supported by hardline elements of the security forces.

Here’s my point of view on the bomb blast in Dehli...

The background leading to the blast in Delhi

- The Indian Intelligence may have tipped the Indian establishment that the earthquake in Pakistan has weakened Pakistani nuclear facilities

- That information led Indian Hawks to see a window of opportunity to close in on Pakistan

- The Indian Hawks started to make noise about Pakistan’s “nuclear proliferation” to find an excuse to move in to Pakistan. Their strategy, just like the Kashmir Jehadi Group`s, towards Pakistan is hate-driven and not that of a vision of peaceful and harmonious co-existence.

- The Kashmiri Jehadi Group despises both Pakistan and India. They hate the peace process both countries have started. They want India and Pakistan to get into a war...possibly a nuclear one. They don’t give a hoot about human loss and suffering. In their hate, all they care about is annihilation.

- The Kashmiri Jehadi Group was disheartened to see that recent Indian noise about Pakistan’s nuclear proliferation has died down and the peace process has not derailed.

- Hence, the bomb blast by the Kashmiri Jehadi Group in Delhi. They want India to attack Pakistan so that Pakistan, as the only resort, turns to nuclear weapons as defense.

- The winners: foaming-at-the-mouth and full-of-hate Indian Hawks and the Kashmir Jehadi Group.

- The losers: Sane people on both sides of the border, and in case of war, countless innocent people.

Pakistan’s Strategy

Distance itself from those who committed the crime in Delhi, ensure the world Pakistan has nothing to do with it, expedite the peace process with India.

hamidm:

India wouldn`t hurt if Manipur leaves and it would, in my opinion, be stronger if it gets out of Kashmir.

But leaving aside Kashmir, it is more than a case of soccer fan mentality, which certainly is true. For India, or any other country, it is a question of where will it end once the process of disintegration starts? A federation like India, made up as it is of several heterogeneous groups with little in common except for a real cum mythical civilisational bond, once the status quo is disturbed, India could end up in a perpetual process of disintegration where one or more disaffected groups are always seeking separate homelands. Even with India`s track record of steadfast refusal to negotiate its territorial integrity, these movements have continued to exist, imagine how many more such movements it will have to contend with if one of them actually succeeds?

And this is more than India. I believe that we already have too many states in this world (dont ask me on what criteria?). Instead of new states, what the world needs, in my opinion, is a supra-nationalist organization which can protect human rights of everyone in this world, with such rights enforceable by an international agency with real teeth.

Well the heat is just getting out of the Kashmir kitchen and beginning to crackle the Indian bedrooms as well. But then again, some people would still like to delude themselves that India can kill 90,000 Kashmiris and still dictate terms to them.

Inquilab group claims responsibility for blasts

re: #278 Ranger

Oye bhagvan ke mootar, you get lost yourself. Just because I posted my views in a civilized but candid manner, does not mean I can`t address you in your own mother language. The choice is yours to make, khotey ki aulad!

hindvi:

I have never seen any data on whether there is greater poverty among Muslims than Hindus. My hunch is that the differences may not be significant. I think that there is a definite different in levels of literacy and representation in police, army, civil service and even private employment, but not in incomes. Muslims in places like UP have been in occupations and crafts which have been in high demand both internally and in export markets. In addition to literacy, I suspect that they also may lack entrepreneurial skills; thus a successful craftsman does not think of going in for business for himself by making maximum use of the banks and government grants and subsidies but lets a Hindu/Sikh/Jain/Parsee make all the profits. Do you have any info. to share in this respect?

anyone who doesn`t recite the ``Islam is a religion of peace`` mantra is a fascist according to hindvi...

any mention of the worldwide war on terrorism being fought against Islamic radicals puts makes you a hitler...

OTOH, apologists for peeople flying planes into buildings have serious opinions that need to be considered....

hindvi:

`` But i do have a problem if Dost mittar mouths the sangh Parivar line and says Aryans did not come to india, or were the first settlers...``

I have not made any definitive statement of this type. I have said that I have seen claims and counter-claims in this regard. While I have seen substance on both sides, I have seen no knockout punch by either side. The only decisive point has been scored by the people against the Aryan Invasion Theory, as Romilla Thapar publicly admitted in The Hindu that there is no proof of invasion, it could be merely migration. To me, this is a historical and not a ideological issue. Unlike some other people, I do not reject an idea simply because it comes from a communist or a hindutva-vadi. Tilak proudly claimed that Aryans came from outside India and he was no secularist.

However, here is something that I have said which perhaps makes me a hindutvavadi in your and maybe other people`s eyes: It is that whether or not Aryans came from outside, they take no pride in any foreign origin. Even if they have come from outside, they have embraced Pre-Aryan (Dravidian?) civilization as their own and take full pride in it. The same is true of Kushans, Greeks, Huns and other Pre-Islamic people who came to the subcontinent.

rsridhar:

``Can u name even one muslim educational institution of similar nature?``

I believe Hamdard organization has such an english-medium school in Delhi.

I think that hindvi has a point. Our earlier so-called socialist governments should have placed emphasis on ensuring equality of education for everyone instead of spending state resources on nationalisation and other wasteful activities. That would have required additional resources for the socially disadvantaged groups.

But hindvi should also recognize the responsiblity of Muslims themselves. They are not an insignificant minority and have significant electoral muscle. As far as I am aware (and I hope I am wrong) they use all their muscle to obtain haj subsidies, preservation of sharia laws, more powers for wakfs, more funds and autonomy of Madrassas and, at best, for the advancement of Urdu.

harimou#258:

Could we hold our judgement until we found out who is responsible for these blasts? [No, I do not believe in the conspiracy theories that the RSS did it]

hamidm#256:

I will first address the general question before getting into specifics.

The way I see it, individual human rights are distinct from a people`s right to self-determination. The first right is the right of every human being by virtue of birth, the second is a people`s right which has to be justified. It is easy to have one without the other. For example, there are still people in India who would claim that there were fewer human rights violations in India during the British Rule than is the case now.

The second right, namely of self-determination, can only be established on a case-by-case basis. For example, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Asian republics were all part of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics which, in theory, were indpendent republics even when they were part of the USSR with the right to secede. India, Algeria, S. Africa, etc., were all colonies of far away lands who got their rights to freedom only after Colonialism went out of favour.

You are right about larger countries not necessarily making for happy countries. But that is a different issue. Whether or not Kashmiris can claim to have a right to self-determination is a separate issue; in my opinion, Pakistan correctly calls it an unfinished business of partition.

Re: # 303

dost-mittar,

..... so what about manipur ?...... to an outsider it seems to be a distinct society with very little in common with the rest of india - a lot more distinct than, let`s say, slavic slovenia as compared to slavic serbia ...........do its people have a right to self-detemination if they so desire ?...... and if the 2 million or so people did secede, how would it hurt india (other than a bruised ego) ?............. my feeling is that nations are like soccer fans - they have this sick desire to identify with something ``bigger`` and ``stronger`` than what they can individually accomplish ....... and their megalomaniac leaders exploit this human weakness to satisfy their insatiable lust for power .............

hamidm#256:

I will first address the general question before getting into specifics.

The way I see it, individual human rights are distinct from a people`s right to self-determination. The first right is the right of every human being by virtue of birth, the second is a people`s right which has to be justified. It is easy to have one without the other. For example, there are still people in India who would claim that there were fewer human rights violations in India during the British Rule than is the case now.

The second right, namely of self-determination, can only be established on a case-by-case basis. For example, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Asian republics were all part of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics which, in theory, were indpendent republics even when they were part of the USSR with the right to secede. India, Algeria, S. Africa, etc., were all colonies of far away lands who got their rights to freedom only after Colonialism went out of favour.

You are right about larger countries not necessarily making for happy countries. But that is a different issue. Whether or not Kashmiris can claim to have a right to self-determination is a separate issue; in my opinion, Pakistan correctly calls it an unfinished business of partition.

teshah#254:

You may be right. Indians may have found out about the intransigence of the new President of Iran and taken it into consideration in their decision. All one can say is Allah save Iran from Ayatollahs!