Bye Bye NAM, Hello Realpolitik!

you say muslims created all the disruption but tell me until the Ram Janambhoomi and shilanyas, and the BJPs Rath Yatra and inflammatory speeches in every village and town and distributions of cassetes and videos talking of rapes of hindu women and destructions of temples and the completely baseless allegation of Lord Ram being born in Babri when dozens of other temples in Ayodhta itself claimed that privilige were hindu muslim relations as bad? maybe in certain hot spots like Moradabad and Meerut and kanpur but certainly not across the length and breadth of India.

Haha...Hindvi`s threat : Give us reservation in jobs , else we are gonna blow your markets...

there are many successful muslims in India, but they are those who atleast had some base i.e. were from the middle or upper middle classes, the vast bulk continues to lead a most miserable existence as rickshaw pullers or workers. you would be right if u said that so do low caste hindus, and since these poor muslims are converts from the low castes and untouchables they share the same conditions, but their is a difference the scheduled castes have had reservation since the 50s and even the other backward castes have had reservations for long so you can see them as police constables, sub inspectors and clerks or low level officers in govt., and since it has been some time since their was reservations in the IAS, IPS and allied services now one sees a large number of senior oficers as well or some other forms of empowerment.

plus since many things in india are community and caste based for example a police havaldar or subedar/jamadar in the army from a particular village will recruit other havladers from his village and biradri so their is also nepotism in which muslims loose out for example a punjabi hindu helps fellow punjabis or a tam brahmin helps a fellow tam brahmin but for the muslim they have prejudice, a feeling that he cannot be trusted, and since their are no muslims in senior position he cant get the nepotistic push either.

do muslims from the really poor background not do well academically? yes but then neither do scheduled castes or OBCs or for that american blacks but america creates affirmative action programs for them, that is the hall mark of a progressive liberal society that it creates space for all and allows a share in the pie, it is good moraly, it increases diversity and also its good for creating a cohesive and strong society.

Look at the schedule caste leaders like ambedkar at Independence they were so alienated but affirmative actions and reservations undertaken by Nehru and ome other liberal leaders against the wishes of the majority of the hindu population has paid off and dalits have a greater sense of belonging.

HisChutiyaExcellency....nobody asked for your advise. Get lost.

Re:hindvi#275

You know that hindus, including myself, will never actually go and bomb innocent muslim civilians. It is just not in our nature to do this sort of hideous stuff. Our anger and frustration is because of the situation in the country over the past 20 years due to endless jihadi activities sponsored by our neighbor in the name of religion. In the Indian subcontinent, it is the muslims who behave like Israelis by first creating their own country based on religion. Just like the Israelis mistreat Palestinians and carry out attacks, Pakistanis and their collaborators in India regularly carry out attacks against hindus. So your comparison is actually opposite.

We hindus have always reached out to muslims. Basically whatever they have ever wanted, they have got from us. They wanted to rule India, they did so for 800 years. They wanted to separate themselves into Pakistan, they got it. The only thing we have not conceded is the Kashmir valley to Pakistan. Even there, Kashmiri muslims have all the land and elect their own government and India has allowed soft borders. No matter what has happened, whether it is partition riots or Kargil or Ayodhya attacks or jihadi violence, hindus have remained secular all the time. Muslims are very much in the mainstream in India. Muslims are in every walk of life ad India takes pride in its muslim citizens. Look at the respect it has given to Dr. Kalam and to so many muslim celebrities. This reaching out to a minority is unparalleled in any other country, islamic or non-islamic.

The question to ask muslims is whether they want to peacefully coexist with hindus or are they hell bent on religious conflict. Hindus are happy with the status quo but muslims are not. Every incident whether it is Ayodhya attack or bomb blasts is being perpetrated by muslims. Perhaps it is because they do not rule India any more but then it is their own fault that they separated. If they had stayed back, they could have ruled India via coalition politics. So the ball is really in muslim court.

re: #252

Netizen:

You have 600,000 Indian soldiers patrolling the streets of Kashmir and LoC. For every 10 Kashmiri civilians, there is 1 soldier to watch over them. You have a start-of-the-art electronic fence along the LoC. You have 24 x 7 satellite imaging along the LoC.

And yet you blame Pakistan for infiltrating jihadis into India??

This can only mean one of two things:

a) Pakistan is indeed pushing Jihadis into India. In this case, India should withdraw troops from J&K, stop the 24 x 7 satellite surveillance and dismantle the electronic fence along LoC. Instead, India should spend the taxpayers` money on an alternate strategy that actually reduces terror, instead of increasing it. I have a suggestion: give the Kashmiris their right of self-determination. It will cost less, and will significantly reduce terrorism.

...or...

b) Pakistan and Jihadis are NOT responsible. Indian politicans are taking their junta for a ride with these conspiracy theories and blame game. The real enemy is within India. Some of these enemies are backed by the underworld, others have links with saffron brigade. There are plenty of people who have been wronged by India e.g. Sikhs, Naxalites, ULFA, Kashmiris, Muslims in Gujrat... Any one of them could have been responsible. It could even be a Hindu fanatic like Godse who would blow up his own co-religionists to further the Hindutva cause. Nothing mobilizes the VHP and RSS more than the death of innocent civilians, especially if that civilian happens to be a Mahatama.

Re: # 276

Hisexcellency:

All we ask from Pak is that it dismantle the jihadi network and stop supporting them. Once it does that we will take care of the remaining jihadis.

Paks support to jihadis is no secret. mushy himself was threatening to start the jihadi ``tap`` if indian forces are not withdrawn from the border areas.

the situation in J&K, with indian forces on the border, is far better than what it would been without them.

we know that pak has no intention to stop the jihadis hence these ``condolences`` are meaningless and are not taken seriously. Its like bush calling invasion of iraq as ``operation iraqi freedom``.

right but may be that is what they want, i.e. polarisation and strife, just like the BJP did, this might reap dividends for them since their objective is to lock the communities into a cycle of strike and counterstrike pulling the state down. India needs to bring the muslims closer to the mainstream, give them a sense of belonging, so that they themselves are on the look out for such characters. The muslims on their part have to disown rabble rousers. A retaliatory bombing might give us schadenfraude but might actually play into the hands of the perpitrators. unlike israel we want to create a single unit not keep the muslims away from the jewish/hindu nation in order to preserve it. Israelis dont want the palestinians as part of the same country, they fear being swamped. so what makes sense for them doesnt make sense for us. land is extremely scarce for them and they are a developed economy, their entire situation is different from us, as is their outlook, we shouldnt blindly replicate their solutions.

Bloody October has turned Eid next week into a somber affair. Muslims all around the world, and especially in Pakistan, shouldn`t waste money on new clothes and Eidee. Instead they should sponsor a family in Azad Kashmir, NWFP or even Delhi. This would be a nice way of thanking India for their $25 million humanitarian aid and thousands of tents that they sent to Pakistan.

Re:hindvi#271

Any individual reacts to both carrots and sticks in life. The same holds true for communities. India has held out a lot of carrots for muslims in India and lately even Pakistan. In India, muslims are doing well and sharing in its economic growth. After the recent earthquake, India showed tremendous goodwill and generosity towards Pakistanis and Kashmiris. But what has it got us? Bomb blasts and death for innocent civilians who have nothing to do with any politics?

If carrots dont work, you need to wield a stick. Basically it is deterrence that if you do something, you or someone who you hold dear will suffer consequences. Then you will thnk 100 times before doing anything. The reason these Lashkar people keep attacking is because there are no consequences for them. Clearly these are shadowy organizations and cant be reached easily. However, if we threaten what they hold dear or claim to represent, i.e. the muslims in South Asia or prominent mosques, then they may hesitate to do anything again in the future. I do not like to say this because it sounds cold to threaten innocent people, but India and even the rest of the non-muslim world is at its wits ends on how to deal with this nuisance.

Re: # 273

``I do not like to say this because it sounds cold to threaten innocent people, but India and even the rest of the non-muslim world is at its wits ends on how to deal with this nuisance.``

Make more nuclear bombs to do the same.

but tell me suppose an extremist organisation did this, do they care if a few of their own are also killed after all it will be justified as a sacrifice for the greater good.

Re:hindvi#269

For the past 2-3 years, there have been several instances of Laskar-e-Taiba people trying to setup cells in Delhi. They typically recruit local muslims as a part of their operation. In some cases, the local muslims are recruited in middle-eastern countries where they go for work and meet Lashkar people from Pakistan. The authorities have been able to bust these cells on many occasions but the Lashkar has managed to pull of incidents like the Ayodhya attack and now these bomb blasts.

The question is whether local muslims willingly joined the operation or were innocent low-level operatives who were recruited for logistical help without understanding the mission. If it is the latter, then obviously they do not deserve to be attacked. But if it is the former, then we have to admit that we have a serious problem in our hands. If a religion and its followers decide to behave like mad dogs in the name of religion, they deserve the appropriate punishment.

what if no local muslim did this? would they be then justified in counter bombings?

There is one and only one way to deal with terrorism - give a hard-hitting response against it. The Lashkar-e-Taiba is a well known entity and its leader Prof. Hafeez Saeed and his family lives in Lahore and interacts closely with Pak media and authorities. India must immediately oraganize the assasination of Hafeez Saeed, his subordinates and his family - all of them must die to avenge these bomb blasts. For that whoever needs to be recruited, even the underworld is all right. Whatever money is required, we NRIs can contribute. I for one would happily contribute to a fund to kill Hafeez Saeed and his cronies.

The second response has to be given to local muslims who collaborated with the L-e-T. In a few days these people are going to celebrate Eid. If we hindus have any sense of shame, we will make their Eid as dark as they have made our Diwali. We can also get RDX and plant it in Jama Masjid and 4 other mosques in Delhi. Lets see how they feel when hundreds of their people die during Eid. I hope some hindu organizations will step up to the plate. In fact, I hope the government will organize a response like that to send a message to muslims never to cooperate with the Le-T.

Looking at this strategically, India must immediately halt all earthquake relief to Pakistan and close the LOC right away. Why feed the animals who want to kill us? We also need to carefully look at the border crossings with Nepal and Bangladesh. Both of these are porous, especially the one with Nepal. A lot of jihadi elements are sneaking into India via Nepal and Bangladesh. Our western frontiers are much better guarded. Therefore, we need to fence off Nepal and Bangladesh right away and bring these borders to the same level of security as our borders with Pakistan.

hamidm

while u are right that it doesnt matter if the area is small or big as long as the people are happy, but it is also true that south asia possess a civilizational unity, how that can be best preserved is what modern desis have debated for the last hundred years, wether as a economic union or a confederal structure or a liberal federal one, it is a highly vexing question and no simple answers are possible, personally I favour a liberal, modern loose grouping with common defence and market and historically this was also the best option for preserving the unity of this subcontinent.