Scream

... yes now they are flowing into India... because Veeresh said so...

Re: # 31/Mantolives, no not just because Veeresh says so, but because the world media parked on the Indian side of the LOC also says so. And because the flow of refugee camp material as well as field hospitals from all parts of India towards POK is already ongoing as well as documented. And because this happens to be disrupting the ongoing Diwali/Eid festival season movements, which is also documented.

As far as we in India can see, we are readying for a fairly large refugee influx. I am not saying why this is happening.

And this ``like East pakistan/Bangladesh`` murmur is also not just because Veeresh says so, but because the world media says so.

I do agree, however, that it is difficult to make a person listen, who does not wish to hear.

And if shooting the messenger comes easily to you, well, so be it. Problem with that, Manto, is that I can see further from Jammu and Srinagar and Rajouri and Poonch and Uri and Baramulla than you can from cosy Lahore. I mean, you couldn`t even see the terrible mess on the Lahore-Wagah railway line, you couldn`t spot the jihad boxes at Lahore Railway Station and now what else is new, you can`t spot the refugees flowing in the natural direction for help.

I guess the POK refugees know that if they tried landing up at, say, `Pindi or Lahore or Multan, there would be people who would deny that there was a refugee problem.

Right, Yasser? What refugee problem in POK, no?

ironically, one of the things to keep the earthquake news in media is the controversial relationship with india and the aid from across the border. and al-zawahiris new tape requesting aid.

Vereesh #: Are you hoping that this earthquake will lead to the break up of Pakistan? Is that all that you can see in this tragedy?

I hope other Indians can see more than that. I think this earthquake has had exactly the opposite affect. I think people across the length and breadth of Pakistan have assisted and the Kashmiris will greatly appreciate that.

Hardly anyone from India has assisted. Most have caused more problems, and have tried to take cheap shots, like yourself. While many of Pakistan Muslim friends have helped greatly, like Turkey, UAE and Saudi Arabia. Without taking any cheap shots...........

Re: # 27, Romair/27.

No, I am not hoping that this earthquake will cause the breakup of Pakistan. I am aware of the track record of Pakistan going about breaking itself once in 1971 (and blaming India for it), and I am asking for dispassionate opinions on whether Pakistan may well be leading to a repeat performance (and blaming India for it again).

And my being an Indian has no bearing on what I placed as a dispassionate question.

I am sure the Kashmiris are appreciating whatever comes their way in this time of their need. Yes, we all know where relief aid from abroad goes, if even 10 paisa in the rupee gets to the ground level, it shall be a wonder from heaven. But heaven is not being particularly kind to Kashmir lately.

And since you are so much in awe of your ``Muslim friends``, I shall be indeed looking forward to seeing how many Kashmir refugees are rehabilitated in Turkey, UAE or Saudi Arabia.

You can, ofcourse, catch the latest on refugees from POK flowing into India on television already.

Re: # 29

Veerash, That’s exactly what I have heard from my relatives over the last two weeks as well. My relatives in Kashmir (including those in the Army) have said that they could care less who is helping them, and any help will be God sent. I have heard good things about the banned Islamic Parties (give credit where it is due) in providing medial assistance; but I have also heard horror stories about the inept Pak Army that only helps when cameras are present. The truth of the matter is that Pak Army is a bunch of thugs and sharks – you will only notice it in a few months from now when you see big villas of Army basterds going up in Islamabad and other cities.

If anyone is donating, please send your contributions to Oxfam or Edhi.

Re: #16 by veeresh on October 24, 2005 1:32am PT

``Have you any idea how women in these areas may have been screaming even before the earthquake? That`s half the population, not just a million or so.`` veeresh

I note that Mukhtar Mai, a Pakistani rape victim who became a beacon for women`s rights, will be honored in the U.S.A. this week and that she was selected by ABC`s national news as Person of the Week last Friday. Incidentally, Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy, a man I much admire, also appeard briefly on a U.S.A. nightly news channel a couple of days ago.

mirmir

One crocodile is missing from the pisture, guess which one.

Re: # 24

Turly, that’s a nice cartoon. It summarizes the international affairs of today. While Pakistanis are busy killing Shias, Christians and Ahmadis, it is no wonder that someone (EU or the US) will have to step up to the plate to claim the leadership to help the victims of the earthquake. Do you have any insight into when the next suicide attack against the Shais will take place in Pakistan. Do you think it will be on or around Nikki Eid?

Why all this concern with what OTHERS may or may not have given? I hope that it isn`t to ease your own conscience for failure to contribute. It would be much more fruitful to ask yourself ``How much have I given?`` Every contribution, however small, would help someone. mirmir

Dispassionate views solicited.

The emergence of Bangladesh in 1971 was preceded by separatist movements that crossed the Indo-Pak borders. Natural disasters and denial of democracy in then East Pakistan were the next catalysts for refugee movements into India. These very refugees then formed the bulwark that removed Pakistan from the scene.

The current situation in POK is similar. Apart from a flow of Kashmiris from POK/Azad Kashmir moving towards the LOC for survival, where frankly they will end up living as refugees, reports of recently converted Muslims from POK/Azad Kashmir flocking back towards Hindu & Sikh relatives living in Jammu & Kashmir and elsewhere in India are no longer anecdotal or restricted to the now famous Tandon episode during this earthquake.

What happens next, does POK/Azad Kashmir shrug off the Pakistani saddle like East Pakistan did?

There is reason enough to think that this might happen with POK/Azad Kashmir.

There is absolutely no reason to think that this may happen with J&K, Ladakh/Leh.

What, then?

Umair...

A brilliant article... let it resonate...

And welcome back after a long absence ...

Yes scream.. Mushy told us that if we scream than he can scream louder. Why not scream at mismanagement of this crisis.. Read on ... comments from yuor unplugged thread..

#4 by friend on October 23, 2005 6:05pm PT
Is this umair khan same as Chowk`s Romair? Why one should scream at NATO`s refusal? Will not Pakistani army expect NATO planes without crew? Why will NATO agree?

Why not scream at wrong priorities set by Pakistani army where they keep buying F16 to bomb neighbours but won`t create infrastructure to help their own citizens.

Why not scream at Pakistani airlines which refused to carry relief material donated to NGOs? If you need to scream, scream at Pakistani government that is reportedly charging import duties on donated tents unless tents are donated to Prime minister`s relief fund and a receipt taken from embassyis sent along with material.

Scream at head of relief operations who one day says ``no joint operation with Indians - joint operation will be like rubbing salt to Kashmiri wounds``, and next day talks of ``Indians are not helping us.``

How can one help a nation that doesn`t know how to help herself? Scream for that nation!!


#6 by friend on October 23, 2005 6:29pm PT
Salim
I am sorry but I am not playing blame game here. I am tired of Shri Umair Khan`s peans in favor of Pakistani army and military government. And now he has guts to say scream ``for NATO refusal``. Shaukat Aziz the idiot was on CNN for full 45 minutes on first day of quake, perhaps basking in glory of airtime of given to him. He basically acted as a unpaid reporter for CNN.

Best thing Pakistan could have done was to open borders for any and every kind of aid. Pakistan would have got 10s of thousands of more volunteers with their equipment. There is nothing in Pakistan (or that matter in India) that is not already photographed through satellites.

Moving, passionate and timely. thanku Umair, words can make a big difference, lets hope they get translated into action.

Mian Romair,

Make your mind up. You say there are enough troops in the so-called ``Azad Kashmir`` and there is absolutely no need for Indian troops. Then, in the same breath, you say India should withdraw from Siachen so Paki troops deployed there are freed up for rescue work. So which of it is true?