Scream

Umair:

…this in itself is a scream…albeit full of anguish and pathos…and screams have a short shelf life

…i fully agree with what you say…we in the diaspora should shove this in the face of our friends, acquaintances and politicians…am not sure of the four week window…but that is a minor quibble…

…however

…if we were to learn from past history…what we euphemistically refer to as ‘the world’ will largely forget this ‘quake in a very short time like it has forgotten equal or greater tragedies in its past...

…and again if history be the teacher…the locals can with grit and determination overcome this adversity...

…it is a long haul process…and our efforts and those of others with goodwill should be directed towards the long haul…and from within our (very limited) resources…

rgds

t

100,000 dead ?

Where did that figure come from?

I thought the # of dead was less than 20,000

Re: # 1
I`ve wondered, too, why the fairly muted response to such an awful, horrendous tragedy. Perhaps I`ve wanted to hear screams, perhaps in fact the response has been more vigorous than it seems. I didn`t know what to do. I wrote a poem, maybe Chowk will publish it. But then, and more practically, I clicked on the little blue rectangle at the top of this page and sent some money. Of course there`s always a risk that the money won`t get to the people who need it most, but it`s a risk worth taking. mirmir

Absolutely, and in addition, we should’ve humbly accepted India’s offer of sending it’s men over the line of control, we need to reach out to those busy blowing up innocent Iraqi shias to come to save a few of their Ummis. While we are screaming, may be we can also have a little whisper (as opposed to a long scream) in memory of 8 Ahmadis recently gunned down inside their mosque.

Send your precious contribution to American Cancer Society in lieu of flowers. Thanks.

The pain and anguish are real – not a shred of doubt about it – a scream would be fully understandable!

The sad reality of life is that those who suffer most directly from tragedies of such a magnitude are the ones who end up doing most of the rebuilding – all by themselves – the choice is either to do that or to perish!

And ANY tragedy – whatever its magnitude, will lose its resonating effect over time – starting with far-away places, then closer home.

Every life is precious – so every death is to be mourned – yet not all of us have the same length of lease on life – some of those leases terminate abruptly as the Landlord recalls what belongs to Him – and only to Him!

And therefore, life must go on! Because – as they say it – the alternative is worse!

So screaming itself does not help – action does – and that’s where the focus needs to remain.

Sincerely,
BeeJay.

The figures given in an article appearing in today’s New York Times are 53,000 killed, 75,000 injured. I suspect that these are conservative figures, and most likely both the death toll and the number of injured will rise - tragically the dying continues. I’ve posted a few paragraphs from the article, but the complete story can be found here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/23/international/asia/23quake.html

“Quake`s Aftermath: Second Wave of Death
By SOMINI SENGUPTA and DAVID ROHDE
Published: October 23, 2005 in The New York Times

PARAS, Pakistan, Oct. 21 - A full two weeks after the earthquake upended everything, the tide of horror here remains largely unchanged. That is perhaps the most frightening thing of all.

In this smashed-up village in the Kaghan Valley, now reachable only by helicopter, the able-bodied still wait for tents. The wounded continue to pour down from the hills. The Pakistani Army continues to airlift them to hospitals across the country. And though their numbers are lower than they were a week ago, their conditions in some cases are graver.

For two weeks, wounds have festered. Relatively mild injuries have worsened, infections have set in and, in the worst cases, so have gangrene and tetanus. In some cases, doctors say, limbs that would not have required amputation had they received immediate care will now have to go.

If a toll of more than 53,000 killed and 75,000 injured were not enough, doctors and relief workers say now the second wave of deaths has begun. The biggest hazards at the moment ``are untreated wounds,`` said Krist Teirlinck, the head of the Belgian mission of the medical relief group Doctors Without Borders.”

Below is a disturbing paragraph from an article, also from the New York Times, that you can find in its entirety here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/23/national/23donate.html

“Of greater consternation to relief officials is the tepid response of government donors to the crisis. The United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, known as OCHA, has received gifts and pledges totaling $91 million for earthquake relief, or 29 percent of the $312 million it has requested.”

Kulharee #4: ``Absolutely, and in addition, we should’ve humbly accepted India’s offer of sending it’s men over the line of control,``

One should not use such occassions to push political points.........

Could you kindly explain why Pakistan needs Indian soliders across the LOC? Have you ever seen the LOC? Have you been to Kashmir? Pakistan has plenty of its own troops deployed in the area. In fact, the problem, at the moment, is that there are too many people there.........There are Pakistani soldiers sitting on Pakistan`s side of the LOC. Why introduce Indian soldiers? That`s like saying Manmohan Singh should come in and replace Shaukut Aziz........

There are 450,000 Pakistani troops waiting to be deployed. The area can only accomodate around 50k, who are there are the moment.........Do explain what good Indian soldiers will do, other than make a political statement? Do they know the area better than Pakistanis? Can they climb the hills faster? Are they more sincere? Can they speak the language better?

What would help are supplies and money from India. But Indian soldiers? So could one request you to kindly refrain from scoring political points at the expense of a tragedy like this.......Including your comments about Iraqi Shias.........What do Iraqi Shias have to do with this earthquake............

Re: # 7

Romair, No, I have never been to the LOC, and have no desire to go there either. Here the writer is arguing about why NATO didn’t come to the rescue, but you don’t want Indians to come in? Is there something missing? You want NATO but no Indians?

Romair, have you ever been to NATO?

This is my latest despatch from the qake zone. I am depressed. My wife who travelled with me this time has not been able to sleep.

---

It is 0200 Hours 24th October 2005. I am just back from Balakot, the city of dead abandoned even before a concerted effort was made to rescue those that deserved it. The only activity seemed to be the hustle bustle of numerous national and international relief organizations looking for people they could feed. Tears have since dried and people move around silently with not a word to speak. They are broken down to every sinew and their wailings have since long given way to an eerie silence and resignation. As I stood photographing the cracked highway memorial, a small group from the mountains descended into the town. When they turned the last bend and took full view of Balakot, the awe and despair on their faces was noticeable. The man I met had walked for three days to reach Balakot to seek help for his family. He was shaken to see a city destroyed beyond recognition and collapsed with his head in his hands. I wanted to give him water but he refused saying that he was fasting. The brave but broken man had been walking for the past 13 hours with a very strong faith, only to see his hopes shattered. As Azan in the far distance sounded Iftar, I pretended to share those holy moments with him thinking, that if indeed this was the wrath of God then why on such simple people with such strong faith? As the sun set behind the hills a little child of three walked up to me in this ghost town. Uncle please search my shoes for me, he said as I looked down at his tiny feet stepping on the rubble. To him, he had lost his dearest possession.

This is my second visit to the area. The last time I visited was punctuated with hope for survivors from the rubble, and I saw people anxiously poking around and listening for signs of life amidst a stench of death. The piles of rubble looked the same except where they are cleared to make way for vehicles. All those who survived the initial jolt and kept imploring for help are since dead. There are no visible signs that an effort was ever made to rescue them. The might of disaster and weight and size of concrete slabs was well beyond the limited earth moving plant available in the area. The stench has given way to the strong odor of formalin, a disinfectant sprayed in the area. The line of slipped mountains passes right through this road bend sweeping with it some of the most beautiful roadside tourist restaurants on way to Kaghan, a spot I had frequented in the past to photograph Balakot down below on both sides of the meandering river. The sheer force of the quake has broken the road at every yard and raised or lowered portions creating bumps reminiscent of the people who once inhabited this area. Close by, there is a multi story school building collapsed like an accordion with one roof on another. Volunteers of ZINDAGHI TRUST told me that not a single child amongst the odd 500 inside was saved.

ZINDAGHI like many other relief organizations is doing a remarkable job in the area. Seeing a sign of the Cross on their camp, I stopped to meet the volunteers. Most turned out to be Christian Boy Scouts from Karachi who had just returned after ferrying loads to distant mountain houses on their backs. They were in very high spirits led by a serving army officer on leave. I kept wondering how motivation had worked wonders for these sea level people to climb mountains with heavy loads. Likewise many industrial houses like Dewan Salman, Dewan Mushtaq and Pepsi Faisalabad have set up their own relief camps. Most remarkable is the military hospital set up by UAE. Close by there is a relief camp and hospital operated by the Chinese as well as a Women hospital run by Catholic Nuns of Pakistan.

Signs of order are now more visible. I failed to discern if it were more due to the organizational ability of the army or resignation on part of the local communities. But one thing is for sure. Help never reached them in time. Now there are too few seeking it.

Silence

---

Romair , Kulharee

Kulharee has a valid point about the Indian aid and Musharraf screwing up this issue as well. He visibly gets confused on such common sense issues and puts on his fauji goggles.

First, we dithered for two days about the Indian aid and talked about some `sensitivity`.

Then we accepted the aid.

Then Helicopters issue came - and we said without pilots. Wasn`t this a stupid condition to embarrass the Indians to say `No`.

As Sardar Qayyum of Azad Kashmir said, what secrets would those pilots notice - `destroyed towns & homes`.

And why did Army waste 72 hours and just sent in two Divisions.

And now that a considerable amount of aid has come, we continue to create a hype for more aid. Frankly, I feel ashamed. Why all those F-16s and other useless expenditure and not using the money for these people.

Pakistan should accept all aid that pours in voluntarily but not BEG for it. We can, especially the society, can do it through our own resources. These people lived a simple minimalist life of 1 or 2 rooms.

nhk

Hi Umair,

You have pretty much captured our collective sentiments here in the U.S.A.

But in spite of the lack of attention due to what I call ``Disaster Fatigue`` it seems

to me that our community is putting its best foot forward and is doing what it can.

The Indian community response thus far has been lukewarm here.

When the earthquake struck Gujarat a few years ago, many of us Pakistani-Americans

pitched in to help.


Ras

Nazar #10: One should not use these tragedies to push one`s political points. ........that is what I was trying to highlight. Kulharee has some pent-up political points he wants to make, and is using this tragedy to make them........To me that is sad.....He should make them outside this tragedy........

- There is no advantage of allowing Indian soldiers across the LOC. They were not needed. If there is one thing Pakistan has enough of, it is troops. India offered them, to score political points. Knowing fully well that Pakistan did not need them, nor had it asked for them. Pakistan would, thus, refuse and India would look good. Do keep in mind that India has Pakistani soldiers unnecessary deployed at Siachen. Perhaps Pakistan should have asked for Indian soldiers from Siachen. Would India have agreed? I doubt it......There was, infact, no need to India to create all this hoopla about sending soldiers across.......

What is needed is open access to all Kashmiris, across the LOC, so they can help each other`s relatives. Some famlies live half on one side and half on the other. This is something India has refused to agree to. Its defence minister stating that one earthquake cannot change 50 years of history. It will only allow a few checkpoints with official documents......

So one needs to keep everything straight on that part........What is the point of such political point scoring, from the Indian side.......Pakistan is already under so much pressure.......

- The only thing India could have helped Pakistan with is aid and helicopters. Pakistan should have accepted helicopters with Indian pilots. However, India should have sent them without pilots, if that is what Pakistan wanted.......Both played it incorrectly, there........

As for aid, Indian aid hasn`t been much. Hardly anything. A small fraction of what much smaller countries have sent. It was accepted and India was thanked. It is not going to be the make or break part of this tragedy.........It has gotten far more media attention than it deserved............There are neighborhoods in Pakistan that have raised more aid, than everything India sent..........Yet it is all over the media in India...........

It is in situations like this where one finds out who cares. And all the caring has come from the West of Pakistan, not the East..........

- The Army did not waste 72 hours to send two divisions. It spent that long to organize the divisions, and soldiers that were there. It did the best it could. Even the biggest critics of the Army are agreeing that it did and is doing all that it can. Far more than most other organizations. I suppose everyone can do more. But so can you and I.......Armies are not trained in disaster recovery. Yet it is the only organized group operting there. Its helicopter pilots are flying 12 hours a day.............

- As for begging for aid, it should be done. There is nothing wrong with asking for aid. No country, other than perhaps USA, could handle something like this, without asking for aid. Pakistan will need more aid, and should keep asking for it. It should ask for massive loan write-offs also.

At the same time, if ever another country needs aid in, God forbid, a similar situation, Pakistan should be on the forefront, helping them, based on the lessons learnt, from this earthquake.....One give aid and asks for aid in such situations..........Turkey, UAE, Saudi Arabia have helped a great deal. As has the USA..........

As for F-16s etc. I agree. Not only F-16s, but, all defence purchases should be stopped. The whole military budget needs to be cut down completely, and spent on social services. Pakistan yesterday, did raise the education budget from 2.7 to 4%. But a lot more needs to be done.

Similar steps need to be taken in other areas. You should mention those, as well. All govt. departments, including PIA etc. need to be downsized, and privatized.........But definitely the defence also...........However, I don`t think this will happen..........

Kulharee #8: ``Romair, No, I have never been to the LOC, and have no desire to go there either...Here the writer is arguing about why NATO didn’t come to the rescue, but you don’t want Indians to come in? Is there something missing? You want NATO but no Indians? .......Romair, have you ever been to NATO? ``

If you have not seen the LOC or the surrounding areas, then how do you know if Indian soldiers coming across the LOC would help. They wouldn`t, as far as I can tell. It was a political move by India, to put Pakistan down. What could Indian soldiers do that Pakistani soldiers could not do? Do tell me..........It`s like Manmohan Singh stating I offer myself in place of Shaukut Aziz.........

India, perhaps, need to make up its mind in Kashmir. Does it want its soldiers to occupy Kashmir or to help Kashmiris. It cannot pull off both..........So you cannot compare NATO with India. NATO has not occupied any part of Kashmir, nor has it killed tens of thousands of Kashmiris.......India is now offering to cross the LOC to help the same Kashmiris, who have been shelled and bombed and killed by Indian soldiers for decades. At the same time it will not open up the LOC, to let their civilian relatives cross over from the Indian side, openly.........

Don`t you see anything wrong with this..........

I have been to NATO countries. If that is what you mean. And Pakistan has asked NATO to help. It has also asked India to help and all countries. Help in areas where Pakistan needs help. Not in areas where Pakistan does not need it, i.e. normal troops in Kashmir....NATO to the best of my knowledge, has never threatened Pakistan, nor does it have Pakistani soldiers locked up in Siachen or on the border. If India is genuinely concerned, it should, simply vacate Siachen. That would probably help Pakistan. It is keeping Pakistani high-altitude soldiers locked up on one front, and offering soldiers across the LOC. NATO is not doing that................

Anyways, I think in this whole affair, dealing with India, through unnecessary issues, has taken up far too much time from the Pakistan side. Both in the foreign office and govt. The govt. should be busy in far more important things than worrying about counter-statements to and from India.............

Oye Romair,

Take the Indian offer or leave it dude....we are not begging you to accept it.

Beautifully written. Very powerful and not that late.

Umair, well articulated, and spot on.

But one simple question - in any perception building exercise, you first need to provide access to credible front-ends, right?

This means the media, international and domestic, favourable as well as critical.

The population of the affected areas have been screaming at bigger injustices than an earthquake for the past few decades now. At that juncture their screams have been stifled. Did you, we bombard the media then?

Have you any idea how women in these areas may have been screaming even before the earthquake? That`s half the population, not just a million or so.

What were you, we, doing then?

It is heart rendering and Tragic !!! WE have made all the efforts to organize the aids from Indian side. But, I think like all dictators Mush would spread falsities and mismanage the entire relief work.............his bootlickers would give his glorious feedbacks and he would repeat those lies before the captive PAk media with none daring to question him .......the plight of people would grow worse day by day............and he would keep on building more lies around himself about the efforts his administration is making..............I think Amartya Sen may be right about the differences between the response from the dictatorships and democratic governments at the time of disasters..................

Mian Romair,

Make your mind up. You say there are enough troops in the so-called ``Azad Kashmir`` and there is absolutely no need for Indian troops. Then, in the same breath, you say India should withdraw from Siachen so Paki troops deployed there are freed up for rescue work. So which of it is true?

Moving, passionate and timely. thanku Umair, words can make a big difference, lets hope they get translated into action.

Yes scream.. Mushy told us that if we scream than he can scream louder. Why not scream at mismanagement of this crisis.. Read on ... comments from yuor unplugged thread..

#4 by friend on October 23, 2005 6:05pm PT
Is this umair khan same as Chowk`s Romair? Why one should scream at NATO`s refusal? Will not Pakistani army expect NATO planes without crew? Why will NATO agree?

Why not scream at wrong priorities set by Pakistani army where they keep buying F16 to bomb neighbours but won`t create infrastructure to help their own citizens.

Why not scream at Pakistani airlines which refused to carry relief material donated to NGOs? If you need to scream, scream at Pakistani government that is reportedly charging import duties on donated tents unless tents are donated to Prime minister`s relief fund and a receipt taken from embassyis sent along with material.

Scream at head of relief operations who one day says ``no joint operation with Indians - joint operation will be like rubbing salt to Kashmiri wounds``, and next day talks of ``Indians are not helping us.``

How can one help a nation that doesn`t know how to help herself? Scream for that nation!!


#6 by friend on October 23, 2005 6:29pm PT
Salim
I am sorry but I am not playing blame game here. I am tired of Shri Umair Khan`s peans in favor of Pakistani army and military government. And now he has guts to say scream ``for NATO refusal``. Shaukat Aziz the idiot was on CNN for full 45 minutes on first day of quake, perhaps basking in glory of airtime of given to him. He basically acted as a unpaid reporter for CNN.

Best thing Pakistan could have done was to open borders for any and every kind of aid. Pakistan would have got 10s of thousands of more volunteers with their equipment. There is nothing in Pakistan (or that matter in India) that is not already photographed through satellites.

Umair...

A brilliant article... let it resonate...

And welcome back after a long absence ...

Dispassionate views solicited.

The emergence of Bangladesh in 1971 was preceded by separatist movements that crossed the Indo-Pak borders. Natural disasters and denial of democracy in then East Pakistan were the next catalysts for refugee movements into India. These very refugees then formed the bulwark that removed Pakistan from the scene.

The current situation in POK is similar. Apart from a flow of Kashmiris from POK/Azad Kashmir moving towards the LOC for survival, where frankly they will end up living as refugees, reports of recently converted Muslims from POK/Azad Kashmir flocking back towards Hindu & Sikh relatives living in Jammu & Kashmir and elsewhere in India are no longer anecdotal or restricted to the now famous Tandon episode during this earthquake.

What happens next, does POK/Azad Kashmir shrug off the Pakistani saddle like East Pakistan did?

There is reason enough to think that this might happen with POK/Azad Kashmir.

There is absolutely no reason to think that this may happen with J&K, Ladakh/Leh.

What, then?

Why all this concern with what OTHERS may or may not have given? I hope that it isn`t to ease your own conscience for failure to contribute. It would be much more fruitful to ask yourself ``How much have I given?`` Every contribution, however small, would help someone. mirmir

One crocodile is missing from the pisture, guess which one.

Re: #16 by veeresh on October 24, 2005 1:32am PT

``Have you any idea how women in these areas may have been screaming even before the earthquake? That`s half the population, not just a million or so.`` veeresh

I note that Mukhtar Mai, a Pakistani rape victim who became a beacon for women`s rights, will be honored in the U.S.A. this week and that she was selected by ABC`s national news as Person of the Week last Friday. Incidentally, Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy, a man I much admire, also appeard briefly on a U.S.A. nightly news channel a couple of days ago.

mirmir

Vereesh #: Are you hoping that this earthquake will lead to the break up of Pakistan? Is that all that you can see in this tragedy?

I hope other Indians can see more than that. I think this earthquake has had exactly the opposite affect. I think people across the length and breadth of Pakistan have assisted and the Kashmiris will greatly appreciate that.

Hardly anyone from India has assisted. Most have caused more problems, and have tried to take cheap shots, like yourself. While many of Pakistan Muslim friends have helped greatly, like Turkey, UAE and Saudi Arabia. Without taking any cheap shots...........

Re: # 24

Turly, that’s a nice cartoon. It summarizes the international affairs of today. While Pakistanis are busy killing Shias, Christians and Ahmadis, it is no wonder that someone (EU or the US) will have to step up to the plate to claim the leadership to help the victims of the earthquake. Do you have any insight into when the next suicide attack against the Shais will take place in Pakistan. Do you think it will be on or around Nikki Eid?

Re: # 27, Romair/27.

No, I am not hoping that this earthquake will cause the breakup of Pakistan. I am aware of the track record of Pakistan going about breaking itself once in 1971 (and blaming India for it), and I am asking for dispassionate opinions on whether Pakistan may well be leading to a repeat performance (and blaming India for it again).

And my being an Indian has no bearing on what I placed as a dispassionate question.

I am sure the Kashmiris are appreciating whatever comes their way in this time of their need. Yes, we all know where relief aid from abroad goes, if even 10 paisa in the rupee gets to the ground level, it shall be a wonder from heaven. But heaven is not being particularly kind to Kashmir lately.

And since you are so much in awe of your ``Muslim friends``, I shall be indeed looking forward to seeing how many Kashmir refugees are rehabilitated in Turkey, UAE or Saudi Arabia.

You can, ofcourse, catch the latest on refugees from POK flowing into India on television already.

ironically, one of the things to keep the earthquake news in media is the controversial relationship with india and the aid from across the border. and al-zawahiris new tape requesting aid.

... yes now they are flowing into India... because Veeresh said so...

Re: # 31/Mantolives, no not just because Veeresh says so, but because the world media parked on the Indian side of the LOC also says so. And because the flow of refugee camp material as well as field hospitals from all parts of India towards POK is already ongoing as well as documented. And because this happens to be disrupting the ongoing Diwali/Eid festival season movements, which is also documented.

As far as we in India can see, we are readying for a fairly large refugee influx. I am not saying why this is happening.

And this ``like East pakistan/Bangladesh`` murmur is also not just because Veeresh says so, but because the world media says so.

I do agree, however, that it is difficult to make a person listen, who does not wish to hear.

And if shooting the messenger comes easily to you, well, so be it. Problem with that, Manto, is that I can see further from Jammu and Srinagar and Rajouri and Poonch and Uri and Baramulla than you can from cosy Lahore. I mean, you couldn`t even see the terrible mess on the Lahore-Wagah railway line, you couldn`t spot the jihad boxes at Lahore Railway Station and now what else is new, you can`t spot the refugees flowing in the natural direction for help.

I guess the POK refugees know that if they tried landing up at, say, `Pindi or Lahore or Multan, there would be people who would deny that there was a refugee problem.

Right, Yasser? What refugee problem in POK, no?

Re: # 29

Veerash, That’s exactly what I have heard from my relatives over the last two weeks as well. My relatives in Kashmir (including those in the Army) have said that they could care less who is helping them, and any help will be God sent. I have heard good things about the banned Islamic Parties (give credit where it is due) in providing medial assistance; but I have also heard horror stories about the inept Pak Army that only helps when cameras are present. The truth of the matter is that Pak Army is a bunch of thugs and sharks – you will only notice it in a few months from now when you see big villas of Army basterds going up in Islamabad and other cities.

If anyone is donating, please send your contributions to Oxfam or Edhi.

Veeresh`s World... where Kulharee is king:

World Media: Indian Media

Re: # 34

Manto, if you are looking for a job, I have a job open in media relations for you. You remind me of Saeed Al-Sharraf (Saddam Hussein`s Minister of Information) who made desperate statements during the war in Iraq to rally the regime`s followers (or to save his ass). My favorite was his claim that the U.S. bomb attacks in Baghdad were Hollywood trickery.

Manto, you really make me laugh.

Veeresh and Kulharee... you remind me of the former Iraqi Information Minister... he was quite given to making such outrageous statements as you chaps make... There has been so such report in the International media.. but then again just like the Iraqi information minister... you guys have a twisted sense of reality...

All because... Veeresh has taken his sorry behind- allegedly- to Kashmir now... and in wake of helping out the earthquake victims- has time to write long-winded ``dispassionate`` analyses of how Pakistan will now break up...


Yes... and American stomachs were supposed to be roasted as well... in Iraq...

Umair, excellent writing. The following analysis appeared in the Financial Times.

Political progress shaken by Pakistan`s earthquake
By Jo Johnson

That the west is failing earthquake-stricken Pakistan - and will pay a heavy price for doing so - there can be little doubt. The relentlessly mounting official death toll stood at 48,000 in Pakistan alone on Friday, with Jan Egeland, United Nations emergency relief co-ordinator, predicting the final figure could be twice as high. Many more are severely wounded:officially 67,000, but Mr Egeland sees up to three times that number. Some 3m people - six times the New Orleans population - are homeless and 500,000 have yet to receive any aid at all.

Within 48 hours of the earthquake it was clear that such a disaster would be beyond the capacity of any one country to handle. The international community`s response, however, has been glaringly deficient. The UN`s flash appeal for $312m (€261m) to fund its emergency operations has received barely a quarter of that amount. A similar appeal at the time of the Asian tsunamis, which killed more people but left many fewer injured and homeless, was fully funded within days. Some aid agencies were so deluged by donations that they turned money away.

With the Himalayan winter days off, resentment is mounting in Pakistan at the disparity in the west`s reaction to the two events. Two weeks on, aid has still not reached a fifth of villages and is inadequate in areas where it has. The UN, hindered by logistical challenges, on Thursday called for a second ``Berlin airlift``, saying it had distributed only 30,000 tents, less than 10 per cent of those needed, and that its warehouses were empty. Kofi Annan, UN secretary-general, said the spread of disease and gangrene makes a second wave of deaths more likely by the day.

Anyone who believes that this is just another earthquake in an earthquake zone, essentially the type of humanitarian tragedy that strikes vulnerable parts of the world from time to time, is mistaken. This has all the makings of a political disaster whose repercussions will be felt - not just in Kashmir and the two countries that vie for control over it - but also, in all likelihood, in western capitals that will become even more attractive targets for terrorists who believe Kashmiri Muslims were failed in their hour of need by a wealthy and heartless west.

That the peace process will end up a collateral victim of the earthquake when it could have received an important boost from it is one of the most unfortunate consequences of the inadequate relief effort. New Delhi and Islamabad have agreed small measures, such as the re-establishment of telephone links across the Line of Control and the sending over of food, blankets and medical equipment in an Indian military cargo aircraft, and more may follow. Pervez Musharraf, Pakistan`s president, has floated the idea of temporarily opening the de facto border to allow Kashmiris to visit relatives.

But on the most substantive question, that of Indian helicopter assistance, the two countries have butted heads and provided an object lesson in how to miss the bigger picture. With only 40 helicopters in theatre in the vital first week that followed the earthquake - there are now 60, with 19 more on the way - Pakistan lacked the airlift to reach millions in remote areas. Gen Musharraf at first flatly rejected the Indian offer, citing ``sensitivities``. After much criticism he said this week that he would accept them after all, but only without Indian pilots, a proposal New Delhi scotched.

The jihadi groups that oppose the peace process have taken advantage of the administrative vacuum in parts of Pakistani Kashmir, stepping into provide medical supplies, clean water and food to some of the hardest hit areas. If this, as seems plausible, generates more support for the separatist cause among Kashmiris, militants will continue to infiltrate into India and find easy refuge among the families and friends of those they have been helping the other side of the Line of Control. India will find itself unable to scale down its unpopular and intrusive military presence.

Pakistan`s military establishment has therefore abetted the jihadi groups who feared the earthquake would be a political godsend for the Indian army by allowing it to reinvent its relations with a Kashmiri population used to seeing it as an occupying force with a deplorable human rights record. The thing jihadis in Azad (Free) Kashmir, as Pakistanis call their half of the territory, feared most was to see Indian pilots dropping manna from the skies like angels of mercy and undermining deep-held prejudices about the nature of ``Hindu India``. As a result, we are all victims of 8/10.

Re: # 36

Manto, have you heard the news in camp Delta that there were 3 huge bomb explosions in Baghdad this morning near the hotels where reporters are staying? Manto, only idiots will be worried about the Unity of Pakistan at this time, Victims of this tragedy in Kashmir could give a fk about the “Unity” of Pakistan. They need tents and medical attention. Take my word for it. What the hell does Unity of Pakistan has to do with the tragedy of Kashmir? Are you for real?

Someone has cleverly detracked the discussion from disaster to a hypotheses of breaking Pakistan. Its better we get back to the subject. The hypotheses can be deliberated in a seperate essay if the author wishes to publish it.

Ijaz Gul that someone : Veeresh/Kulharee

Thought I`d name them... they want to score their brownie points at the expense of poor earthquake victims.

ENOUGH of this BEGGING mentality!

Pakistan should spend money on disaster preparations than millitary. Break the vaults of millions of faujis and feudals to get the black money to pay for the relief.

The west shouldn`t give a penny to any of the beggar nations.

Most of the aid ends up in the wrong hands anyways.

(long post)

ijaz:

this is what i wrote earlier:

***

…this in itself is a scream…albeit full of anguish and pathos…and screams have a short shelf life

…i fully agree with what you say…we in the diaspora should shove this in the face of our friends, acquaintances and politicians…am not sure of the four week window…but that is a minor quibble…

…however

…if we were to learn from past history…what we euphemistically refer to as ‘the world’ will largely forget this ‘quake in a very short time like it has forgotten equal or greater tragedies in its past...

…and again if history be the teacher…the locals can with grit and determination overcome this adversity...

…it is a long haul process…and our efforts and those of others with goodwill should be directed towards the long haul…and from within our (very limited) resources…

***

to reiterate...in the months and years to come the brunt of the job has to be borne by us...we need clear and long term commitment and thinking... the task is daunting and arduous...collectively we can do it...will we? that is a question no one can answer today...

ijaz, from the diaspora screaming can only achieve so much...it can lull us into a false sense of misplaced thinking that we are doing something...that ius not enough...what we really should be doing (in addtion to some screaming) is to think long haul:

* continue collecting funds here
* channelising them to accountable groups with proven track record with the help of you and others who are there
* cut down on our excessess and flauntings ( shaadis/clebrations/hajs) and redirect the savings toward rebuilding
* start thinking in terms of helping those rebuild their lives...e.g. sewing machines for widows... and more

rgds

t

re Romair #12 ``It is in situations like this where one finds out who cares. And all the caring has come from the West of Pakistan, not the East.......... ``

I have no words to express my disgust. Romair, why don`t you just come out and say ``real pakistanis not mohajirs``.

btw umair, I`m not rich enough for my scream to be heard.

it`s more effective if people with ten abbreviations after their name, or ten digits in their bank accounts, do the screaming, and not on chowk... in the WSJ/WP/NYT/CNN etc.

re: #27 Romair: While many of Pakistan Muslim friends have helped greatly, like Turkey, UAE and Saudi Arabia.

Turkey is Muslim. Says who? Try saying that to someone from that country and see what you get.

#24 Urstruly. that cartoon is positively sick. you think the citizens of USA and UK are that hard-hearted to laugh over Pakistan`s tragedy? I wonder how many of your own hard-earned tax-deductible dollars you have donated to charities in this ``alligator-tears`` way?

Ehsan Faramosh.

Re: # 39, Ijaz, the disaster is, and no pun intended, about a Pakistan being broken.

The essay talks about screaming to bring a specific disaster to the notice of the world. Fair enough.

But should the world, which includes India, then ignore the other more pressing reasons for screaming in POK/Azad Kashmir? I mean, what were these ``screamers`` doing when the complete female gender, full civilisations and a variety of cultures were being wiped out under the earthquakes of fundamentalism and jihad camps?

Yes, there is a disaster currently causing grief in POK/Azad Kashmir. But it is not only the earthquake.

kidbeegorilla #43: ``why don`t you just come out and say ``real pakistanis not mohajirs``.``

I have no idea what you are talking about. What does my comment have to do with Muhajirs?

Gentlemen and ladies,

Who gives a s.... ? about breakup of pakistan etc. There are young children, women and men dying. Is chowk doing something to help these people ?

I am surprised at the mentality of umair khans on this board. They are begging for NATO planes. Will they ask NATO planes to also arrive without crew? Why not?

It appears that begging ``Goras`` for relief is ok. If neighbourstry to help than you will start putting conditions.

Romair saheb commented what will Indian soldiers do. India has one or largest pool of medical professionals in world. Indian army para-medics could have easily been para-dropped in remote areas. They are trained to walk long distances with all their medical supplies. How many life that could have saved? But it seems that Pakistan will allow its 100,000 Kashmiris to die rather than accepting help from India.

Pakistanis have themselves so far collected more than FIVE BILLION RUPEES in cash ie an equivalent of 833 Million $. This does not include the aid in medecines, food and basic nessecities of life dumped on the major road heads. There are over one hundred field hospitals with surgical units. The nation is galvanised manifested in north bound long lines of trucks from Hassanabdal and Murree. They come from every corner of Pakistan and from every segment of society. Just as a case in point, the entiore demolition works in Islamabad was done by the earth moving equipment of private contracters like SKB, HAKAAS and HASNAIN.

The measure of tragedy is perhaps still underestimated. The enitre world community owes to assist and not help. Specially those who call us allies must. If Indians wish to score a few brownies while representing a narrow segment, lets not be digressed and lets move on. There is plenty of work to do.

Vereesh #47: `` then ignore the other more pressing reasons for screaming in POK/Azad Kashmir? I mean, what were these ``screamers`` doing when the complete female gender, full civilisations and a variety of cultures were being wiped out``

Your sympathy for Azad Kashmiris is neither required, nor necessary. We are pretty happy with Pakistan.............There seems to be a great desire, in you, to speak for Kashmiris. Is it for the well-being? Why not let them speak for themselves.

As someone who has close ties to the place (apparently not as close as you), I cannot see any truth in your statement. Azad Kashmir would be nowhere, had it not been for Pakistan. Azad Kashmiris realize that. I would be working as a bus driver in Indian Kashmir had it not been for Pakistan. Or I would be fighting for independence in Srinagar. Or I would be dead......

I say all of this quite seriously. Pakistani Kashmir takes far more from Pakistan than it gives back, economically. At the same time, Kashmir and the areas that have been affected, have a child literacy rate of 75%. As for women, those in Azad Kashmir villages are amongst the most liberated in any village area that I have seen in Pakistan. My family village in Azad Kashmir has a girls college. Hard to find one in too many other villages in Pakistan........

I regularly look for Indian Muslims and specifically Indian Muslim Kashmiris in IT in USA. I have found a few Indian Muslims. But have yet to find a single Indian Muslim Kashmiri. Not one My own family, apprently, has more Muslim Kashmiris in IT than all of Indian Kashmir.

So rest assured, no one in Azad Kashmir has been wiped out, nor are they screaming against Pakistan. Now if you want to create that myth, it only exposes you. But it is not the truth. In fact, on occassion, I feel embarrased at some of the advantages Azad Kashmiris take, vis-a-vis affirmative action in Pakistan. Also, sometimes I feel embarrased at the amount of money expat Azad Kashmiris, from UK, spend on building huge houses in Mirpur etc., while expecting Pakistan to look after the infrastructure development in Kashmir.

If that doesn`t convince you, you may want to look at the crime statistics. Azad Kashmir is the most non-violent place in Pakistan. Perhaps in all of South Asia. It is orders of magnitude safer than the rest of Pakistan. Northern areas, barring the recent violence in Gligit, have been even safer................

It is sad to see you try to score politcal points, at the expense of this tragedy............But if you are bent upon scoring political points, please try to come up with some valid ones.......These are almost as incorrect as your chemist in Rawalpindi theory.........

#51
I like your attitude - it`s the attitude of a practical person who wishes to accomplish something. Just a correction assuming you`re using the american notation: Rs. 5b = $83 m.

Re: # 37
//.....in western capitals that will become even more attractive targets for terrorists who believe Kashmiri Muslims were failed in their hour of need by a wealthy and heartless west....//

Let`a get this straight - ``West didn`t help kashmiris[not true]... so let`s go bomb their capital``....

I don`t who this guy who wrote the article, but this kind of articles should be considered an insult to the victims and people who are helping them..... according to reports there have been UK/French search and rescue teams that have pulled people from rubble, with their high-tec equipment which were not available in pakistan...

veeresh: after reading your comments, i lost all respect for you. shame on you!

Re: # 54

Mohar

````I don`t who this guy who wrote the article``

I figured you and your cohorts wouldn`t know. This analysis is not meant for the consumption of your type and level.

Re: # 52

Romair, what is this “Azad” Kashmir or IOK business? Why can’t it just be Kashmir? Do you know how stupid it sounds to outsiders referring to Kashmir as Azad or Makbooza? Take it from someone from Makbooza Punjab. And if you think that Pakistanis have more love for their Kashmiri brothers than they did for Bengalis, you my friend are sadly mistaken. Until you have your elementary school textbooks printed in Kashmiri language, have your own national anthem, your own democratic government, your own borders, calling it Azad is a bit of wishful thinking. From Pakistanis’ perspective, you are under Pakistan’s “control”. Don’t forget it. Thanks.

Godot #36

``.....in western capitals that will become even more attractive targets for terrorists who believe Kashmiri Muslims were failed in their hour of need by a wealthy and heartless west....``

What a logic! why will governments that spend more money in F-16s rather than basic infrastructure not be a more attractive target?
Governments will not accept readily available help and than beg for `white man`s` help - why are they not more attractive targets?

Re: # 52
Mr Romair,
How many people in your village actually speak Kashmiri, or for that matter in Pakistani Kashmir?

I have`nt found any Kashmiri from Pakistan who can speak Kashmiri, Punjabi-Yes. Their parents could speak Kashmiri.

Ijaz_gul #51: Good poinits. I agree with Soysauce that 5 billion ruppees = $83 million...

In the end, it is the economy of Pakistan, which will need to support this effort. So it is important that the economy keeps growing. I think the int`l community will come in with more money. $5 billion is not much for them. Pakistan should, hopefully, be able to get some loan write-offs, or loan payment delays........

Most of all, this is an opportunity for the Pakistan govt. to re-allocate its budget. Pakistan has frozen its defence budget, at around $3 billion, for a few years. But now it needs to reduce it, regardless of what is going on in the region, and regardless of any increases in other countries` military budget. Pakistan main deterence in, now, nuclear. It needs to downsize conventional purchases, for ten years or more. Also, it should move its defence budgets towards export-oreinted manufacturing of military hardware.

Most of all, it needs to downsize its military, from 600k to around 250k - combined air force, army and navy. And utilize the rest of the budget for infrastructure development, and social services. In one day, Pakistan, two days ago, raised its education budget from 2.7% to 4% of the national budget. That is a 35% increase, in one day!! However, more needs to be done........

This will be the real test for Musharraf. I think he has done well during the tragedy. I think he will do well during the rebuilding also. But will he have the vision, to use this tragedy to carry out massive social reorientation. Lets see. My guess is maybe not. The military-industrial-civil services complex in Pakistan is too well-entrenched to be broken up. Moreso than in most countries. If Musharraf does do that, he will have done more for Pakistan, than anyone in the past 50 years........

At the same time, I think this tragedy has laid to rest any claims about Pakistanis not caring for each other, or not being united. Or about Pakistan being a failed state. Even the extremely cynical Pakistani English press has come around. I think the outside world is in a state of shock in seeing how the Pakistanis reacted. I haven`t seen anything like that anywhere in the world. No one from Houston rushed to New Orleans after Katrina. Yet thousands of Pakistanis, of all ethnicities and religions, rushed into the aftershocks of this earthquake, which occured in an area, most of which, officially, isn`t even a part of Pakistan and has zero political influence!!

This reaction, alone has started changing Pakistan`s and Pakistani public`s perception in the world. In addition, the Pakistani fauji jawan is now as popular as he has ever been since 65. People are seeing, first hand, what I have seen for ten years, as far as dedication of the average Pakistani soldier goes.

That which does not kill me, only makes me stronger, is a good saying. Cities have been torn down and built up again, and torn down again. These cities will be re-built. This, I am sure of. Now, is there leadeship available, which can make big decisions, with impact, in the whole society, outside this earthquake. Musharraf is a well-meaning patriotic person. But does he have the vision?

Re: # 56 godot

Fine, whatever.... go bomb western capitals because they didn`t give you help .....

Bullsh!t is bullsh!t no matter who spews it.....

Kashmiris are fodder to the cannons in the ruling circles whereever they go.

Wheather it is Mughals converting people like Romairs(most likely Brahmin origin) to Islam or Mr Sapru AKA Mohammad Iqbal. Then Dogra Raja fighting over it. Then India, that does not know how to resolve the problem by not becoming like What Pakistan did to Sikhs/Hindus in Kashmir.

Meanwhile, Pakistani Kashmir has been Pakistanised, in term sof Language and culture, it will be another extension of Punjab.

How is that different from; when Hari Singh Nalwa ruled over Kashmir, it was still a province of Punjab. In fact, Pakistan should thank Sikhs for making NWFP and Kashmir as part of what is now Pakistan.

Romair #60

{{I think the int`l community will come in with more money. $5 billion is not much for them. Pakistan should, hopefully, be able to get some loan write-offs, or loan payment delays.}}

Pakistan was going to plonk down $3 billion for 80 late-model F-16s. They’ve also been talking of aquiring Swedish Erieye AWACS aircraft – the better part of another billion. They don’t need those expensive toys since their defense has become impregnable thanks to indigenous nuclear-tipped missiles. You said $5 billion, didn’t you? We’re already up to almost $4 billion. You can generate the remainder of the resources internally.

So there’s no need to go around importuning the international community for $5 billion in quake aid, and no need for more Mirpuris to blow themselves up in London tube stations if the baksheesh isn’t forthcoming.

Hi Umair

Good to see you on Chowk!

Out in Canada, the CBC and the local channels are quite active in covering the quake--in fact the first I realised the enormity was through Canadian media, radio and TV. Canada has sent its DARE: a highly trained search and rescue team that provides fresh water, food and medical care with special equipment. Indo-Canadians--have sent a lot of money to Pakistan-. The point is that this isn`t local news, it is international news--it does`nt involve the local people of our adopted homelands--, plus quakes and such never remain front page news because no-one can be blamed for them. UNLESS the press finds an enemy or some sort of people angle out of it--news about quakes slips to the middle pages. The Katrina was a perfect front page news. Pakistan`s quake is just pure tragedy--if Pakistanis had been obnoxious, if India had been threatening to invade, THEN it would be front page news in all papers.

So its is NATO`s job to airlift pakistanis while your generals build estates in Pakistan and all over the world?

Your goverment is willing to spend 10`s of $ billions on nuclear weapons and F-16 fighters and it is someone else`s problem to help with disasters in your country?

What a bunch of losers....

Besharmi ki bhi had honi chaiyya...

WEll Mr. Khan:

It is no use believing that that the rest of the world has a special obligation to quake-hit people in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (POK). It appears the fatigue has taken over donor nations and few are prepared open their cheque ooks.

Pakistan has occupied 1/3 of Kashmir since its birth and now should take the responsibility to help, feed and take care of the wounded and the dead. Let us see how fellow brethren tret their own Muslim brothers and sisters.

Re: # 65

Mishra Sahib, there should be no shame in asking for help from those who can. Poor victims (over 3 million homeless, and close to 60,000 dead – # expected to go higher with winter approaching) couldn’t care less who is helping them. Those Pakistanis who can are doing the best they can. Yes, our Armed forces are corrupt and yes they spend billions on useless weapons – I personally (not that it matters) can live with their wasteful spending on WMDs; but it shames me that they will turn down offer of help from our neighbor. I think that’s the most despicable act ever by any Pakistani government. People are dying, and these behnchood Generals are worried about their false sense of self-esteem.

IDRF is rasing money for the earthquake victims and have a press-release adressing some ``concerns`` of donors.

http://www.idrf.org/dynamic/modules.php?name=Hncontent&pa=showpage&pid=345

This is a great article and I hope efforts like this will jump start the much needed aid. I was also saddened by lack of adequate coverage in international media about this disaster, except for a few exceptions like BBC. I dont think it is because of any anti-Muslim bias thought it might and will be percieved as such. To be honest, there is a certain disaster fatigue in general which might be contributing to this...

Nevertheless, it is incumbent upon us to keep this thing alive, like this author is doing and hope that it amounts to something,

Thanks,
Avkrishna

Umair, a number of schools in the northeast -- including your successors -- are having a candlelight vigil tomorrow. And the House observed a minute of silence.

Well-written as always. I think all any of us can do is organize fundraising events and donate personally.

Its taken me a while to go through the article and all 70 responses so far. Ive been conviced and counter convinced on a number of occasions. Good intellectual masturbation. Does India want to score points? Who knows, who cares. Do Pakistanis need help. Yes. Do Kashmiries care where the help comes from? No.

It will take quite a lot to erase the decades of mistrust and latent hostility between our nations, but as individuals we can cover the distance relatively quickly if only we are prepared to make a start - and now is as good a time as any. So lets pls come back to the article and debate whether screaming makes a difference? I think it does but only if we shout in the right direction and Im afraid we are preaching to the converted.

FOLKS:

WHEN I LAMENTED THE LACK OF ADEQUATE COVERAGE ABOUT THE RAVAGES OF ERATHQUAKE ON CHOWK IN ONE OF MY POSTS, THE SELF-APPOINTED CHOWKIDAAR, MR. t QUIPPED: `` .. LIFE GOES ON...`` JUST LOOK AT THE ARTICLES PUBLISHED ON CHOWK SINCE OCTOBER 8.

Why do the Pakistanis on this forum feel obligated to respond to Injun interactors? I mean, do you stop and bark back at the mongrels that bark at you on your way home? Let`s not waste our energies here... let them gloat, celebrate, criticize whatever. We have more important things to take care of right now.

Re: # 64
it`s DART. canadian govenment will match dollar for dollar all earthquake relief funds raised by the indo-pakistani community till 24th october 2005. it is amazing to see the hardwork being put up by a large number of indians and pakistanis through chum fm, a local radioand tv program hosted by darshan sahota and his daughter. they are doing an amazing job through radio, tv and other media. i must be amiss if i do not mention the great work being done by volunteers from india, pakistan and bangladesh who have been working tirelessly for the last two weeks to gather as much medicine, money and other relief items, packing and freighting it to pakistan...

Re: # 73

ali:

you are so right.

BTW where do you leave that you encounter mongrels barking at you while going home?

Re: # 52, Romair/Ijaz et al, nobody is trying to score any points.

I am just stating ground level facts. And the facts are that:-

a) there is a fairly intensive mobilisation going on in India right now to accept the refugees that are likely to flow across the border/LOC in the next few weeks. The trickle is turning into a flow, with people landing up as ``Afghans`` into India already.

b) countries do not invade each other any more. Yes, Pakistan can hold the threat as a means of scaring and impressing its own population, but in this day and age, armies are not going to be used to march on to each other`s capitals and then take up residence there.

c) there is some sort of under-current of people who changed religions re-establishing family ties and reverting back to pre-conversion in 1947 family structures. It is important to note here that this is accompanied by some amount of tension on account of property issues, so expect the incumbents/occupiers to resist.

d) the rescue and post-disaster efforts are hampered by the simple fact that the Pakistani Government refuses to let a better prepared and experienced India provide assistance, apparently for the fear of the symbolism that Indians on POK soil would represent.

e) and here is the last one - even ordinary Indians including those from Jammu & Kashmir, Ladakh and others from the Indian end have been refused permission to enter POK to help. The devastated in POK are asking, is medical tourism from Pakistan to India restricted only to the people from the plains?

Shame on me? Look inside your own house first.

I am only here to point out that you have made a total mess of the house I vacated so that you could improve on it.

And then, you want to scream.

Sure, scream. But please scream for the larger picture.

Re: # 60

Dear Romair:

You want a reduction in the armed forces of approximately 58.3%.
[Most of all, it needs to downsize its military, from 600k to around 250k - combined air force, army and navy.] And what are these 350,000 or so going to do in the Pakistani economy. I have no idea as to what the current unemployment rate in Pakistan is? Do you know the current unemployment rate in Pakistan?

[But will he have the vision, to use this tragedy to carry out massive social reorientation. Lets see. My guess is maybe not.] Musharraf might have the vision, but can he implement it? And the answer is still out there.

Respectfully submitted,

My Dear Indian Interactors,

Indian soldiers are not needed on Pakistani soil. And that was the correct decision. There can be no ifs, buts, about it. Personally, their qualifications are no better or worse than that of the Pakistani soldiers. So please get off your high horse.

Respectfully submitted,

re: the article
A great article. Author speaks from his heart.
#9 by ijaz_gul
Great work Sir. You have been to the scene of devastation and given a vivid picture of destruction but also of hope. Was it not Dr Shahid Masood who sounded alarm (over a private channel) even before the Pak govt knew of the scale of destruction and the Minister of Information Sheikh Rashid Ahmed kept denying any vast devastation had taken place.
I salute people like you and Shahid Masood.
I also urge u to find ways by which Indian NGOs, doctors, paramedics can come across LOC to help the victims. More than a million face death due to weather, wound complications etc etc. India is a vast country and people are willing to help if Pak govt says yes. Wonder what u think?
Sridhar

re:#13 by Romair
Hey moron, when are u going to go to POK and help your Kashmiri brothers. Unlike Ijaz Gul, u are just sitting on your butt in Canada and talking about India`s occupation of Kashmir. Get a life, moron.
Sridhar

re:#12 by Romair
This guy keeps talking about Indian soldiers but Paki dictator has not allowed any Indian: NGOs, doctors, paramedics, into the Paki Kashmir. So, it is much more than just the soldiers. I can understand Pak dictator`s sensitivity in allowing Indian army personnel but whatabout civilian NGOs, doctors etc.
Romair is part of the reason why Pak stinks big time, even at this hour of tragedy. Sorry, i got to say what is in my mind even though it hurts.
Sridhar

re:#22 by veeresh
I think Kashmiris may decide to unite together and fight both India and Pak in future. Until now, the fight was against India`s real/perceived atrocities. But none of this will come about anytime soon. The real anger will be seen to come out of the closet after the rehab process is well underway. It is in best interest of both nations to slowly let the 2 Kashmirs merge and start giving each part substantial autonomy.
Sridhar

Re: # 13

Dear Romair:

I agree with you on this one....[It was a political move by India, to put Pakistan down. What could Indian soldiers do that Pakistani soldiers could not do?] This was all a political drama by the Indians. Good for Musharraf.

Respectfully submitted,

Re: # 78, Behram:-

a) In India, the Armed Forces are always the first line of rapid movement and assistance in times of natural and similar disasters. This is largely because they are not busy with ``ruling`` the people as in Pakistan. So any assistance from India for large-scale disaster will perforce involve the Indian Armed Forces, more often than not dressed in practical fatigues. Generals to Doctors to Soldiers.

And unlike the Pakistani Armed Forces, they will not change into Full Dress Brass and Monkey Caps or Western Suits or Razakar Pathan Suits when travelling abroad either.

So India and Indians are not getting on a high horse by offering assistance. We are, by nature, a helpful Nation. But we fly our own choppers, drive our own motor vehicles and most of all, behave like people on mercy missions and not as ``rulers``.

b) To the next part, about not wanting Indian soldiers, fair enough. But then why are your people going around bleating for American or NATO soldiers? Do your leaders think that they will visit and build your motorways again, or do they hope that they will leave their guns behind?

Anyway, another few days and the LOC will be wide open to accept distressed people. And I shall be there. Back to Chikoti, before the snows, at the wheel of a truck loaded with supplies.

Let me see how many Pakistani interactors will take the trouble?

Re: # 81

Dear rsridhar:

[Sorry, i got to say what is in my mind even though it hurts.]

Don`t worry about it. There is nothing in your mind. Just chunks of rocks bouncing around. That is why it hurts.

Respectfully submitted,

re:#37 by godot
It will be instructive to see how much of Pak`s GDP its Army consumes (just for the pretense of defending its borders, so much so that it failed to provide relief to Quake victims for the first 48h. Why? Of course, they were defending the LOC!) and if Army`s extravaganza should not be curtailed. Pak does not need aid from outside. It needs to prune down its Army expense and curtail corruption.
This tragedy also exposed another myth: that India is ready to gobble up Pak. This should have been the easiest time to cross the LOC and take over the territorry (if someone is sick enough to think of it) but India did not.
So, at the cost of repetition, it is worth repeating to my Pak friends here one important lesson: a democracy does not wage a war unprovoked.
It is now time to collaborate and help the victims.
Sridhar

Re: # 83, Behram & Romair, let me put it this way, the Indian soldiers would provide superior leadership and disaster recovery skills and then head back to their barracks, while the Pakistani soldiers would be busy ensuring that their rule continued uninterrupted.

And yes, ofcourse, many from both sides would continue with selective screaming.

Scream for the earthquake victims.

Do not scream for the women impacted by gender suppression.
Do not scream for the abscence of democracy.
Do not scream for religious and ethnic cleansing.
Do not scream for those impacted by the Mangla Dam.
Do not scream for theft of relief funds.

OK, I can understand, you would rather wail for US and NATO soldiers. But why are the Pakistanis making it so difficult for the world media to cover the truths?

Re: # 84

Dear veeresh:

Thank you so much with your response. I am not aware on the nuances of the Indian or Pakistani armed forces. What I do know is that we do not trust each other. And that is a fact. And until such time that some trust