A Devastated Metropolis
Ozer Khalid October 31, 2005
#89 Posted by pmishra2 on November 2, 2005 5:29:52 pm
Good article by Praveen Swami. Gives a careful analysis of likely background behind delhi bombings.
http://www.hindu.com/2005/11/03/stories/2005110302361000.htm
The Lashkar-e-Taiba, in theory and practice
Praveen Swami
Last week`s bombings in New Delhi necessitate a clear understanding of what the terrorist group wants — and what it will do to achieve its ends.
LYING IN his hospital bed in Srinagar`s Government Medical College, recovering from bullet injuries which ripped apart his upper body, Manzoor Ahmad Chilloo evokes pity. Fear, to those who know his story, would seem a more appropriate sentiment. Last year, the student of medicine had been a central figure in a Lashkar-e-Taiba operation to attack the Mumbai Stock Exchange using a car-bomb. Had the operation succeeded, the death toll might well have made the carnage caused by last week`s bombings in Delhi appear trivial.
Much commentary on the bombings has characterised them as a renewal of the Lashkar-e-Taiba`s pan-India war — a break with an overall de-escalation seen during the recent deepening of the India-Pakistan détente process. Such a representation is misplaced. Despite the growing vigour of the India-Pakistan dialogue, the Islamist jihad has continued apace. Few in India, however, understand the full scale and intensity of the Lashkar`s operations — or the hatred that drives them.
Chilloo`s story gives some insight into the workings of the Lashkar`s pan-India operations. A long-time Lashkar operative, Chilloo was detained by the Jammu and Kashmir Police in 2002 on suspicion of ferrying funds to the terror group but was released without charge. He subsequently moved to Pune to pursue studies in medicine. Much of his time, however, was spent on building up a pool of contacts for the Lashkar, drawing on young Pune residents who had been active in the proscribed Students Islamic Movement of India.
In early 2004, Chilloo was contacted by the Srinagar-area Lashkar commander Shahid Ahmad, a Pakistani national who operated using the code-name `Zulu`. First sent to Jammu and Kashmir to coordinate a joint assassination squad set up by the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen and Lashkar, Ahmad`s operation successes led to his being made responsible for operations outside of the State. He turned now to Chilloo, who already had a cell in place.
A carefully-crafted Intelligence Bureau operation — which also led to the controversial elimination of a woman Lashkar operative, Ishrat Jehan Raza, in an encounter in Ahmedabad — eventually led to the detection and exposure of the `Zulu` cell. Chilloo himself, however, remained at large until he was injured in the course of the attempted assassination of a Srinagar-based politician earlier this year. If the chance firefight had not led to his capture, Chilloo might well have been involved in the networks that carried out the Delhi bombings.
Similar networks have been active over the last two decades. All of them trace their ancestry to three key operatives — Abdul Karim `Tunda,` Jalees Ansari, and Azam Ghauri. All Indian nationals, the three were recruited by the Lashkar after the demolition of the Babri Masjid. Many others soon joined them, often individuals with SIMI connections. Among them was Amir Hashim, a New Delhi resident who carried out a series of bombings in Delhi, Rohtak, and Jalandhar in 1996 and 1997. Growing numbers of Pakistani nationals, such as Mohammad Salim Junaid, Amir Khan, and Abdul Sattar, also participated directly in the Lashkar`s pan-India operations from 1998.
In 2003, both the Lashkar and the Jaish-e-Mohammad attempted to set up cells to draw on the anger of Gujarat Muslims after the state-organised communal pogrom that tore apart their lives the previous year. Neither organisation had great success — most Indian Muslims seem to believe democratic institutions can address their grievances — but if the Lashkar did execute the Delhi serial bombings, it more likely than not drew on the services of local supporters recruited from regional Islamist groups.
What does the Lashkar want?
Tempting as it might be to see the Lashkar`s operations as driven by revenge — against communal violence or the conviction of operatives involved in earlier terrorist strikes — its objectives are more elemental.
Just last month, the Lashkar served public notice of its intentions. In its September 23 issue, the Lashkar-affiliated magazine Ghazwa editorially called for a renewal of Pakistani state support for the jihad in Jammu and Kashmir. India, it claimed, was working to divide Pakistani society by ``cunningly using the slogan of friendship,`` while at once supporting forces hostile to it in Baluchistan and Afghanistan. Ghazwa demanded that President Musharraf admit that the détente process had given Pakistan nothing and work instead ``to fortify the jihad.``
Of arguments that continued support for jihad imposed unacceptable costs upon Pakistan, Ghazwa was dismissive. ``Now is the right time for Pakistan to support the jihad in Kashmir,`` it said, ``because America has entangled herself in the wars of Iraq and Afghanistan and in addition is suffering from severe afflictions like Katrina and Rita.`` ``Pakistan should remember,`` the magazine asserted, ``that even a so-called superpower like the United States has been badly worn at the hands of the mujahideen. Remember what happened to the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and then think about India: how can it resist the jihad?``
Understanding the Lashkar position requires an engagement with its core position: that the jihad in Jammu and Kashmir is not a battle over territory, but a part of an irreducible conflict between Islam and unbelief. Committed to the eventual creation of a caliphate that would rule over all the world`s Muslims, the Lashkar asserts that a jihad-without-end must continue ``until Islam, as a way of life, dominates the whole world and until Allah`s law is enforced everywhere in the world.`` As the noted scholar of Islam Yoginder Sikand perceptively pointed out, the Lashkar`s vision of Islam is one that leads it to represent the Quran itself as a manifesto for jihad.
Indian rule in Jammu and Kashmir is, in this construction, necessarily evil and oppressive, because ``the Hindus have no compassion in their religion.`` ``In fact,`` Hafiz Mohammed Saeed who heads Markaz Dawa wal`Irshad, a seminary which runs a massive network of charitable and educational institutions in Pakistan, had declared some years ago, ``the Hindu is a mean enemy and the proper way to deal with him is the one adopted by our forefathers, who crushed them by force.`` India is, in turn, part of just a global system of oppression that must be overthrown by force. As the Lashkar spokesperson Nazir Ahmad bluntly stated: ``through the jihad that the mujahideen have launched in Kashmir, Islam will become dominant all over the world.``
Not surprisingly, some Lashkar-affiliated leaders have operated in Iraq and the United Kingdom; cells have also been detected in the United States. Despite considerable global pressure on Pakistan to dismantle the Lashkar, its infrastructure is largely intact. After British investigators found that terrorists involved in the recent bombings of the London Underground had visited Lashkar facilities, little doubt was left that its activities posed a global threat. Yet the Lashkar`s fundraising activities, as well as the recruitment of personnel and the military training of cadre, continue apace under the Markaz Dawa banner. All of this begs the obvious question: why?
Facing the future
Analysts offer several possible answers to the question. One explanation might be that the tail wags the dog: that Pakistan`s President simply does not have enough support within his military to act against those it gave birth to during the Afghan jihad and is tied to by links of ideology and faith. Another plausible theory, advocated amongst others by the scholar and academic Husain Haqqani, is that continued jihadist activity suits General Musharraf, allowing him to represent himself to the world as the last line of defence against an Islamist coup.
Either way, the Delhi bombings have once again made clear a stark fact: as long as terrorist groups possess the capabilities to carry out violent acts, they will sooner or later use what is available. Given past experience, it is unlikely that the tragedy in Delhi will force General Musharraf to change course. In key senses, Ghazwa is right: the U.S. is too preoccupied with events in Iraq and Afghanistan, and too dependent on Pakistani support for its counter-terrorism campaign, to make Jammu and Kashmir-related developments a central policy concern.
Without dispute, the Lashkar is well-positioned to capitalise on the situation. Set up with the support of Pakistan`s Inter-Services Intelligence and Osama bin-Laden aide Abdullah Azam, the Lashkar has emerged as an organisation of global reach, largely untouched by the U.S.` war against terrorism. Part of a sprawling political empire, the Lashkar is the armed wing of the Markaz Dawa. Although the Markaz denies it has any connection with the Lashkar, the claim has been debunked by a large mass of media investigation and scholarly work.
It is not, of course, as if the Lashkar is the sole suspect in the Delhi serial bombings: others have demonstrated both the intent and capability needed to strike across India in the past. Bilal Beig`s Jammu and Kashmir Islamic Front, which bombed Delhi`s Lajpat Nagar market in 1996, has been showing signs of revival in recent months. Both the Jaish-e-Mohammad and the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen have carried out operations outside of Jammu and Kashmir in the past. Yet given the strength of its infrastructure and its deep links with Pakistan`s military establishment, it is without doubt the principal terrorist threat to India today. Abdul Karim Tunda, the Lashkar founding father in India, has been spotted more than once at the Jamaat ud-Dawa campus at Muridke, near Lahore. If Pakistan is serious about ending the Lashkar`s war against India, it could start by handing him over for trial.
http://www.hindu.com/2005/11/03/stories/2005110302361000.htm
The Lashkar-e-Taiba, in theory and practice
Praveen Swami
Last week`s bombings in New Delhi necessitate a clear understanding of what the terrorist group wants — and what it will do to achieve its ends.
LYING IN his hospital bed in Srinagar`s Government Medical College, recovering from bullet injuries which ripped apart his upper body, Manzoor Ahmad Chilloo evokes pity. Fear, to those who know his story, would seem a more appropriate sentiment. Last year, the student of medicine had been a central figure in a Lashkar-e-Taiba operation to attack the Mumbai Stock Exchange using a car-bomb. Had the operation succeeded, the death toll might well have made the carnage caused by last week`s bombings in Delhi appear trivial.
Much commentary on the bombings has characterised them as a renewal of the Lashkar-e-Taiba`s pan-India war — a break with an overall de-escalation seen during the recent deepening of the India-Pakistan détente process. Such a representation is misplaced. Despite the growing vigour of the India-Pakistan dialogue, the Islamist jihad has continued apace. Few in India, however, understand the full scale and intensity of the Lashkar`s operations — or the hatred that drives them.
Chilloo`s story gives some insight into the workings of the Lashkar`s pan-India operations. A long-time Lashkar operative, Chilloo was detained by the Jammu and Kashmir Police in 2002 on suspicion of ferrying funds to the terror group but was released without charge. He subsequently moved to Pune to pursue studies in medicine. Much of his time, however, was spent on building up a pool of contacts for the Lashkar, drawing on young Pune residents who had been active in the proscribed Students Islamic Movement of India.
In early 2004, Chilloo was contacted by the Srinagar-area Lashkar commander Shahid Ahmad, a Pakistani national who operated using the code-name `Zulu`. First sent to Jammu and Kashmir to coordinate a joint assassination squad set up by the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen and Lashkar, Ahmad`s operation successes led to his being made responsible for operations outside of the State. He turned now to Chilloo, who already had a cell in place.
A carefully-crafted Intelligence Bureau operation — which also led to the controversial elimination of a woman Lashkar operative, Ishrat Jehan Raza, in an encounter in Ahmedabad — eventually led to the detection and exposure of the `Zulu` cell. Chilloo himself, however, remained at large until he was injured in the course of the attempted assassination of a Srinagar-based politician earlier this year. If the chance firefight had not led to his capture, Chilloo might well have been involved in the networks that carried out the Delhi bombings.
Similar networks have been active over the last two decades. All of them trace their ancestry to three key operatives — Abdul Karim `Tunda,` Jalees Ansari, and Azam Ghauri. All Indian nationals, the three were recruited by the Lashkar after the demolition of the Babri Masjid. Many others soon joined them, often individuals with SIMI connections. Among them was Amir Hashim, a New Delhi resident who carried out a series of bombings in Delhi, Rohtak, and Jalandhar in 1996 and 1997. Growing numbers of Pakistani nationals, such as Mohammad Salim Junaid, Amir Khan, and Abdul Sattar, also participated directly in the Lashkar`s pan-India operations from 1998.
In 2003, both the Lashkar and the Jaish-e-Mohammad attempted to set up cells to draw on the anger of Gujarat Muslims after the state-organised communal pogrom that tore apart their lives the previous year. Neither organisation had great success — most Indian Muslims seem to believe democratic institutions can address their grievances — but if the Lashkar did execute the Delhi serial bombings, it more likely than not drew on the services of local supporters recruited from regional Islamist groups.
What does the Lashkar want?
Tempting as it might be to see the Lashkar`s operations as driven by revenge — against communal violence or the conviction of operatives involved in earlier terrorist strikes — its objectives are more elemental.
Just last month, the Lashkar served public notice of its intentions. In its September 23 issue, the Lashkar-affiliated magazine Ghazwa editorially called for a renewal of Pakistani state support for the jihad in Jammu and Kashmir. India, it claimed, was working to divide Pakistani society by ``cunningly using the slogan of friendship,`` while at once supporting forces hostile to it in Baluchistan and Afghanistan. Ghazwa demanded that President Musharraf admit that the détente process had given Pakistan nothing and work instead ``to fortify the jihad.``
Of arguments that continued support for jihad imposed unacceptable costs upon Pakistan, Ghazwa was dismissive. ``Now is the right time for Pakistan to support the jihad in Kashmir,`` it said, ``because America has entangled herself in the wars of Iraq and Afghanistan and in addition is suffering from severe afflictions like Katrina and Rita.`` ``Pakistan should remember,`` the magazine asserted, ``that even a so-called superpower like the United States has been badly worn at the hands of the mujahideen. Remember what happened to the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and then think about India: how can it resist the jihad?``
Understanding the Lashkar position requires an engagement with its core position: that the jihad in Jammu and Kashmir is not a battle over territory, but a part of an irreducible conflict between Islam and unbelief. Committed to the eventual creation of a caliphate that would rule over all the world`s Muslims, the Lashkar asserts that a jihad-without-end must continue ``until Islam, as a way of life, dominates the whole world and until Allah`s law is enforced everywhere in the world.`` As the noted scholar of Islam Yoginder Sikand perceptively pointed out, the Lashkar`s vision of Islam is one that leads it to represent the Quran itself as a manifesto for jihad.
Indian rule in Jammu and Kashmir is, in this construction, necessarily evil and oppressive, because ``the Hindus have no compassion in their religion.`` ``In fact,`` Hafiz Mohammed Saeed who heads Markaz Dawa wal`Irshad, a seminary which runs a massive network of charitable and educational institutions in Pakistan, had declared some years ago, ``the Hindu is a mean enemy and the proper way to deal with him is the one adopted by our forefathers, who crushed them by force.`` India is, in turn, part of just a global system of oppression that must be overthrown by force. As the Lashkar spokesperson Nazir Ahmad bluntly stated: ``through the jihad that the mujahideen have launched in Kashmir, Islam will become dominant all over the world.``
Not surprisingly, some Lashkar-affiliated leaders have operated in Iraq and the United Kingdom; cells have also been detected in the United States. Despite considerable global pressure on Pakistan to dismantle the Lashkar, its infrastructure is largely intact. After British investigators found that terrorists involved in the recent bombings of the London Underground had visited Lashkar facilities, little doubt was left that its activities posed a global threat. Yet the Lashkar`s fundraising activities, as well as the recruitment of personnel and the military training of cadre, continue apace under the Markaz Dawa banner. All of this begs the obvious question: why?
Facing the future
Analysts offer several possible answers to the question. One explanation might be that the tail wags the dog: that Pakistan`s President simply does not have enough support within his military to act against those it gave birth to during the Afghan jihad and is tied to by links of ideology and faith. Another plausible theory, advocated amongst others by the scholar and academic Husain Haqqani, is that continued jihadist activity suits General Musharraf, allowing him to represent himself to the world as the last line of defence against an Islamist coup.
Either way, the Delhi bombings have once again made clear a stark fact: as long as terrorist groups possess the capabilities to carry out violent acts, they will sooner or later use what is available. Given past experience, it is unlikely that the tragedy in Delhi will force General Musharraf to change course. In key senses, Ghazwa is right: the U.S. is too preoccupied with events in Iraq and Afghanistan, and too dependent on Pakistani support for its counter-terrorism campaign, to make Jammu and Kashmir-related developments a central policy concern.
Without dispute, the Lashkar is well-positioned to capitalise on the situation. Set up with the support of Pakistan`s Inter-Services Intelligence and Osama bin-Laden aide Abdullah Azam, the Lashkar has emerged as an organisation of global reach, largely untouched by the U.S.` war against terrorism. Part of a sprawling political empire, the Lashkar is the armed wing of the Markaz Dawa. Although the Markaz denies it has any connection with the Lashkar, the claim has been debunked by a large mass of media investigation and scholarly work.
It is not, of course, as if the Lashkar is the sole suspect in the Delhi serial bombings: others have demonstrated both the intent and capability needed to strike across India in the past. Bilal Beig`s Jammu and Kashmir Islamic Front, which bombed Delhi`s Lajpat Nagar market in 1996, has been showing signs of revival in recent months. Both the Jaish-e-Mohammad and the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen have carried out operations outside of Jammu and Kashmir in the past. Yet given the strength of its infrastructure and its deep links with Pakistan`s military establishment, it is without doubt the principal terrorist threat to India today. Abdul Karim Tunda, the Lashkar founding father in India, has been spotted more than once at the Jamaat ud-Dawa campus at Muridke, near Lahore. If Pakistan is serious about ending the Lashkar`s war against India, it could start by handing him over for trial.
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#88 Posted by hamidm2 on November 2, 2005 4:25:16 pm
Re: # 87
jay,
... stop it !......... it breaks my heart to see a grown man cry ........... i personally know some married paki women who ran off with an ``aashna`` and are laughing all the way to the bank ............. honor killing, like bride burning, is a horrible thing, and it happens, but i can assure you that it doesn`t happen left, right and center ............ nobody is denying that there is a section of paki society (represented by urstruly on this forum ) that is all screwed up, but they do not speak for all of us ........... i agree with you that the laws need to be fixed, but if you can`t implement a uniform civil code how can you expect us to beat some sense to our idiots ? ................ as for mukhtar mai, don`t worry about her - she is doing okay now and i am sure she would be willing to donate some money to set up a home for some half-burnt brides in india .................
jay,
... stop it !......... it breaks my heart to see a grown man cry ........... i personally know some married paki women who ran off with an ``aashna`` and are laughing all the way to the bank ............. honor killing, like bride burning, is a horrible thing, and it happens, but i can assure you that it doesn`t happen left, right and center ............ nobody is denying that there is a section of paki society (represented by urstruly on this forum ) that is all screwed up, but they do not speak for all of us ........... i agree with you that the laws need to be fixed, but if you can`t implement a uniform civil code how can you expect us to beat some sense to our idiots ? ................ as for mukhtar mai, don`t worry about her - she is doing okay now and i am sure she would be willing to donate some money to set up a home for some half-burnt brides in india .................
#87 Posted by jay on November 2, 2005 3:44:32 pm
Education in pakistan,
Pak president is advised by the bet educated of pakistan. It is they who told him to remove the passport of muktar mai. They insisted on having a police man when ever she was interviewed, and all her mail was searched. It is the educated of pakistan that approved the above process.
Little did they know that the world will not tolerate this. Now the president has been forced to change his decision. It is the educated of pakistan that decided that mai will bring disgrace to pakistan. One can see the same mind set on chowk. For tahmeds and godots talking about the legal basis of honour killing in pakistan is a disgrace.
The humiliation and disgrace brought on by the pakistanis is astounding. Education do not give the pakistanis a reasoning ability.
Tahmed and godot talk of human rights in kashmir, for them hoodood is no problem. They never admit that the only crime against the state in pakistan is blasophemy. They never admit that hoodood has changed the mindset of pakistan. Ant criticism of hoodood is bvlasohemy and ISI will be at teh tahmed door step. Even on chowk, no pakistani dares to criticise hoodood. Their criticism is limited to telling that Zia did it.
Pak president is advised by the bet educated of pakistan. It is they who told him to remove the passport of muktar mai. They insisted on having a police man when ever she was interviewed, and all her mail was searched. It is the educated of pakistan that approved the above process.
Little did they know that the world will not tolerate this. Now the president has been forced to change his decision. It is the educated of pakistan that decided that mai will bring disgrace to pakistan. One can see the same mind set on chowk. For tahmeds and godots talking about the legal basis of honour killing in pakistan is a disgrace.
The humiliation and disgrace brought on by the pakistanis is astounding. Education do not give the pakistanis a reasoning ability.
Tahmed and godot talk of human rights in kashmir, for them hoodood is no problem. They never admit that the only crime against the state in pakistan is blasophemy. They never admit that hoodood has changed the mindset of pakistan. Ant criticism of hoodood is bvlasohemy and ISI will be at teh tahmed door step. Even on chowk, no pakistani dares to criticise hoodood. Their criticism is limited to telling that Zia did it.
#86 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on November 2, 2005 3:26:57 pm
#85, mannyd {quoting Zeena {``Her wounds are being mended with ointment of LOVE and care by USA.``}
Mannyd,
Is that the same ointment of love (discovered on a black dress) that Ken Starr was threatening to rub around Bubba`s neck?
Mannyd,
Is that the same ointment of love (discovered on a black dress) that Ken Starr was threatening to rub around Bubba`s neck?
#85 Posted by mannyd on November 2, 2005 3:19:47 pm
#75:
The brilliance of Zeena`s reasoning abilities and Mean Manny`s harrasment is all too clear from the following:
``Christians are better than Muslims-Doctor Zeena
on October 27, 2005 10:51am PT
Here is her full tribute to her brave heroine and USA:
``#12 by Zeena on October 24, 2005 9:28am PT
Tahmed32
Mukhtaran Mai is not only great,but, really blessed with God`s blessings. She has dedicated her self for the betterment of suppressed and battered Paki women.
Mukhtar Mai, is announced{{{PERSON OF THE WEEK}}},today by channel 7(ABC). All the reporters were so, very happy for her nomination. Everyone is preparing for Mukhar mai`s arrival. There will be a special wellcome program for her. She is declared (CELE, NOW. SHE WILL BE AWARDED a big sum of money, which she will spend in her schools for the betterment of Paki battered , and suppressed women.
Mukhtara Mai
I salute your bravery. I applaud Channel 7 for their projection of Mukhtara Mai as a HERO.
When I heard, this announcement, I started crying . Those were the tears of happiness for my dear and sweet heart, Miss Mukhtara Mai.
ABC will also arrange dinner in the HONOUR of Miss Mukhtara Mai, where she will be awarded with the badge of honour.
In Pakistan, Miss M M`s honour was lost and was degraded under the feet of her own countrymen, where Govt. did not support her , where her rapists were set free. Where she was put behind the bars in her own house, not letting her travel abroad. Head of Paki state even started accusing her of playing rape drama for immigration.
In USA, Miss MM`s HONOUR is not only given back to her with all the respect and grace, but, also with all the LOVE from American women, who consider her their HEROINE. Her name is being taken as a symbol of bravery, dignity and honour.
I hope Hollywood should air her with her story.
God is great, Muslims snatched her honour and raped her, Christians gave her honour back. Her wounds are being mended with ointment of LOVE and care by USA. Great. This is miracle. ``
To call the above foamy blather Abbotabadi Idiocy is way too generous.
#118 Christians are better than Muslims-Doctor Zeena
on October 27, 2005 10:44am PT
What did I say Zeena? Why is MM any more precious than the rape victims in USA?
Frankly my dear, MM or any other victim could do better without your convoluted logic or support.
But at least you are better than your cohort Samina.``
The brilliance of Zeena`s reasoning abilities and Mean Manny`s harrasment is all too clear from the following:
``Christians are better than Muslims-Doctor Zeena
on October 27, 2005 10:51am PT
Here is her full tribute to her brave heroine and USA:
``#12 by Zeena on October 24, 2005 9:28am PT
Tahmed32
Mukhtaran Mai is not only great,but, really blessed with God`s blessings. She has dedicated her self for the betterment of suppressed and battered Paki women.
Mukhtar Mai, is announced{{{PERSON OF THE WEEK}}},today by channel 7(ABC). All the reporters were so, very happy for her nomination. Everyone is preparing for Mukhar mai`s arrival. There will be a special wellcome program for her. She is declared (CELE, NOW. SHE WILL BE AWARDED a big sum of money, which she will spend in her schools for the betterment of Paki battered , and suppressed women.
Mukhtara Mai
I salute your bravery. I applaud Channel 7 for their projection of Mukhtara Mai as a HERO.
When I heard, this announcement, I started crying . Those were the tears of happiness for my dear and sweet heart, Miss Mukhtara Mai.
ABC will also arrange dinner in the HONOUR of Miss Mukhtara Mai, where she will be awarded with the badge of honour.
In Pakistan, Miss M M`s honour was lost and was degraded under the feet of her own countrymen, where Govt. did not support her , where her rapists were set free. Where she was put behind the bars in her own house, not letting her travel abroad. Head of Paki state even started accusing her of playing rape drama for immigration.
In USA, Miss MM`s HONOUR is not only given back to her with all the respect and grace, but, also with all the LOVE from American women, who consider her their HEROINE. Her name is being taken as a symbol of bravery, dignity and honour.
I hope Hollywood should air her with her story.
God is great, Muslims snatched her honour and raped her, Christians gave her honour back. Her wounds are being mended with ointment of LOVE and care by USA. Great. This is miracle. ``
To call the above foamy blather Abbotabadi Idiocy is way too generous.
#118 Christians are better than Muslims-Doctor Zeena
on October 27, 2005 10:44am PT
What did I say Zeena? Why is MM any more precious than the rape victims in USA?
Frankly my dear, MM or any other victim could do better without your convoluted logic or support.
But at least you are better than your cohort Samina.``
#84 Posted by mannyd on November 2, 2005 2:57:13 pm
I think that should be ok. It would make Sir Tahmed a self-made-man.
Self made men are more to be pitied than censored. Right Tahmed?
(let us see if he can read that through his half covered eyes)
Self made men are more to be pitied than censored. Right Tahmed?
(let us see if he can read that through his half covered eyes)
#83 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on November 2, 2005 2:48:22 pm
#81, mannyd {``like a man if he drank his mother`s milk, Similac or of a two teat water buffalo of an Ayya. If it was a she bear, I`ll forget it.``}
Manny,
Would an orange-haired one-legged multi-talented wild-eyed mustachioed haina (sic) do?
Manny,
Would an orange-haired one-legged multi-talented wild-eyed mustachioed haina (sic) do?
#82 Posted by mannyd on November 2, 2005 2:28:22 pm
#75: ``but this is the desi man for you. Ready to harass any female they can manage - even if on the internet.``
There is no Zeena here. The conversation is between you and I and you are no female unless you already have had the sex change operation. You are a compulsive liar besides being stupid. Put me on your ignore list or apologise like a `whatever you are`.
There is no Zeena here. The conversation is between you and I and you are no female unless you already have had the sex change operation. You are a compulsive liar besides being stupid. Put me on your ignore list or apologise like a `whatever you are`.
#81 Posted by mannyd on November 2, 2005 2:22:14 pm
``mannyd: i dont read your posts. but dont be disheartened. i count them on the interactindex. ``
So back to your old tricks Mullah sahib.
#79: The evil false rumors that Arjun_m and Sadhna were celebrating the deaths of earethquake victims was started by Mullah Omar, the mail room peon at Dawn. I personally never expressed the slightest joy ever at those deaths. Zeena is Tahmed`s student and psychotic admirer, who would believe President Bush uses Quran for toilet paper if Mullah Omar of dawn ever says that.
I am asking Tahmed32 to produce my offensive posts about earthquake deaths or apologise like a man if he drank his mother`s milk, Similac or of a two teat water buffalo of an Ayya. If it was a she bear, I`ll forget it.
So back to your old tricks Mullah sahib.
#79: The evil false rumors that Arjun_m and Sadhna were celebrating the deaths of earethquake victims was started by Mullah Omar, the mail room peon at Dawn. I personally never expressed the slightest joy ever at those deaths. Zeena is Tahmed`s student and psychotic admirer, who would believe President Bush uses Quran for toilet paper if Mullah Omar of dawn ever says that.
I am asking Tahmed32 to produce my offensive posts about earthquake deaths or apologise like a man if he drank his mother`s milk, Similac or of a two teat water buffalo of an Ayya. If it was a she bear, I`ll forget it.
#80 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on November 2, 2005 12:09:12 pm
{``#78 by chowk-staff on November 2, 2005 11:54am PT
Re: # 30
The spamming you did on all articles last week diminshed in your interact index to zero. Keep to the guidelines and your interact index will change back to a positive number and your comments will not be filtered.``}
Chowk Staff,
You mean that he still has a chance to step up to mediocrity? :)
Re: # 30
The spamming you did on all articles last week diminshed in your interact index to zero. Keep to the guidelines and your interact index will change back to a positive number and your comments will not be filtered.``}
Chowk Staff,
You mean that he still has a chance to step up to mediocrity? :)
#79 Posted by kidbeegorilla on November 2, 2005 11:55:34 am
Too cool writing style! I can just see the clouds...
actually, it would be nice if people took other people`s death seriously. whether it`s one dead or one thousand, it`s still nine months of terribly hard work for someone`s poor mom.
actually, it would be nice if people took other people`s death seriously. whether it`s one dead or one thousand, it`s still nine months of terribly hard work for someone`s poor mom.
#78 Posted by chowkstaff on November 2, 2005 11:54:23 am
Re: # 30
The spamming you did on all articles last week diminshed in your interact index to zero. Keep to the guidelines and your interact index will change back to a positive number and your comments will not be filtered.
The spamming you did on all articles last week diminshed in your interact index to zero. Keep to the guidelines and your interact index will change back to a positive number and your comments will not be filtered.
#77 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on November 2, 2005 11:44:57 am
#75, Janab, ek per qabr meN hai, or aap meN sachhai ke khilaaf muhim ki koi kami nahiN nazar aati.
Baatil se dabnay wale, e aasmaaN nahiN hum
So baar kar chuka he tu imtehaaN hamaara :)
Baatil se dabnay wale, e aasmaaN nahiN hum
So baar kar chuka he tu imtehaaN hamaara :)
#76 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on November 2, 2005 11:20:00 am
#75, tahmed32 {``hamidm: Zeena is a female poster that brave chowk warriors like mannyd fight with whenever they get the chance. She is perfectly decent (and posts some very nice pictures of gardens and things) normally, but some scumbags on chowk have found that she is sensitive to their trash posts and so take great joy in baiting her causing her to react. ``}
Tahmed, Sir,
Au contraire mon frere. Please do not say that she is merely reacting. I had never abused her or even had an altercation with her before. She noticed my joke concerning Asma Jahangir and immediately lashed out against me, my wife, and my mother. This is both shameful and quite the opposite of decent feminine behavior. I think that you need to check your moral compass. Your selective sense of fairness, justice, and moral outrage is not that easily explained by an excuse of senility.
Tahmed, Sir,
Au contraire mon frere. Please do not say that she is merely reacting. I had never abused her or even had an altercation with her before. She noticed my joke concerning Asma Jahangir and immediately lashed out against me, my wife, and my mother. This is both shameful and quite the opposite of decent feminine behavior. I think that you need to check your moral compass. Your selective sense of fairness, justice, and moral outrage is not that easily explained by an excuse of senility.
#75 Posted by tahmed32 on November 2, 2005 11:14:52 am
hamidm: Zeena is a female poster that brave chowk warriors like mannyd fight with whenever they get the chance. She is perfectly decent (and posts some very nice pictures of gardens and things) normally, but some scumbags on chowk have found that she is sensitive to their trash posts and so take great joy in baiting her causing her to react. I think it is disgraceful for mannyd to try and trash her on the front page...but this is the desi man for you. Ready to harass any female they can manage - even if on the internet.
#74 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on November 2, 2005 11:14:35 am
Mannyd #69 and #70, {``Of course you had a good Rajput base to begin with also compared to some arrogant cobblers.) ``}
{`` do not want to see anyone banned, but considering that you have spent more years in Chowk slammer than Gandhi in british jails, I have to request Chowk for equal treatment for the three genders; males, females and Mullahs.``}
Mannyd,
Yes, Prithviraj Dada was a very honorable and chivalrous man. I am fortunate to be related to that great man.
I accept the comparison to Bapu and reiterate that I will keep going to Chowk Slammer over and over until the tyrants quit and go back to their European land.
{`` do not want to see anyone banned, but considering that you have spent more years in Chowk slammer than Gandhi in british jails, I have to request Chowk for equal treatment for the three genders; males, females and Mullahs.``}
Mannyd,
Yes, Prithviraj Dada was a very honorable and chivalrous man. I am fortunate to be related to that great man.
I accept the comparison to Bapu and reiterate that I will keep going to Chowk Slammer over and over until the tyrants quit and go back to their European land.
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