Why Doesn’t the World Care?

# 324,


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4134255.stm

Thats Sri Lanka alone for you! Why did nt the Paki media say that in `this` village alone, 20000 are feared missing and 20000 may die in the cold? Why does nt the Paki media make up its mind on what it wants the public reaction to be like?

Of course, the image of a 30 foot wall of tsunami water itself should have made an impression.

But look at what the US did to make a flood and a hurricane look like? It publicised FEMAs demand for 50000 body bags. After 9/11, it said some 20000 were `trapped` and missing.

And why does politics have to mix with religion, giving Pakistani religion a stink? Is nt that reason enough for a already anti muslim western media to cringe at talk of aid?

The more you listen to Islamic fundamentalists like Behram, the more you realize that there is only one way to deal with these people - as Britain, France and Germany are beginning to realize. I thought that the following post by Harimau on another Forum (Bomb blasts in Delhi) was very much to the point:

[Aha_Snark,

We have tried for 55 years (after the Republic of India was proclaimed) to mollycoddle Muslims. The net result is we have bombs in New Delhi the day before Deepavali. How about a few bombs in Jumma Masjid on Eid? (Pakistanis probably would be doing it in Shia mosques and imambaras.)

How about trying my suggestion for the next 500 years? Ban the Haj pilgrimage, saving tons of money that is being spent on Saudia Airlines. Save the Rs. 150 crore Haj subsidy. If any Muslim so much as says ``Boo``, lock him up for 30 years.

There are these terahertz frequency scanning machines. They see through clothes and everything. So, a pants-drop-down test to check for Muslimness is not necessary most of the time.

No voting rights for Muslims in India. If any Christian wants both the right to convert and reservations, nail him to the cross in a public place so that the Christians will learn to shut up.

Free-fire zone is a valid response in times of war. When the jihadis declare war on India, they should be prepared for the response. After all, all of India is Dar-ul-Harb according to Muslims. Let us show them what a true war zone looks like.

It is weak-kneed hand-wringing Hindus like you who are the bane of India. Did the Muslims try a bomb in Ahmedabad, Gujarat? No, because they know exactly what they will get in return.]

#336 by kaalchakra

`` So instead of dismissing the entire Pakistani approach as unfair, or deriding it as `dhimmitude,` Indians need to closely study it and implement it at home. ``

Hey I am all for that. Ending up with only 2% muslims in India is an attractive proposition. Where do I sign-up ?

re:kaalchakra`s post
(Pakistani minorities report themselves to be far happier and much more satisfied with their existing status than do the minorities in India. Culturally, Pakistani minorities are one with the Pakistani nation. A Pakistani Christian, Parsi or even Hindu who has learnt some Arabic or Persian is not half much a rarity as an Indian Christian, Parsi, or Muslim who has studied, say, Sanskrit or classical Tamil.)
Ha, ha, ha.
Man, u are funny.
I am sure Paki minorities are happy for the simple reason that they are still breathing!
And, are they to be admired for learning Arabic or Persian (since when have these languages become synonymous with Paki nationality?) when that is the more politically correct thing to do. My question is: can a hindu in Pak learn sanskrit if he wants to?
Get a life man. First let Pakis explain to me how 20% hindu population in Pak became a mere 2% or even less. Ever heard the word ethnic cleansing. It takes many forms: forcing to convert (as happened during and immediately after partition), making someone`s life so miserable that he/she is forced to convert or migrate out (as has happened and is still happening in Pakistan). A few are left as testimony that Pak too has minorities. Big deal.
Here is an interesting article from another forum for starters:
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/ISSUE6-2/sridhar.html
While on the subject of ethnic cleansing, u may want to revisit the horrors of ethnic cleansing of Bangladeshi men and women in 1071 by the Paki Army:
http://www.gendercide.org/case_bangladesh.html
Sridhar

re:#348 by dharma
(So this is what dimmitude does to parsees? everyday you learn something new)
Dimmitude does something more. Hence this guys last name Aatish-e-g@@nd.
Sridhar

Re: # 346
dear besharam,
so let me get this straight.
``Parsees were invited to Karachi in the early 1800`s, by the British after they won the war with the Sindhi Talpurs. Parsees were employed in the railroad, and most of them stayed there in Pakistan after partition. Parsees are mono-theistic, and so are the muslims.
I will explain why Pakistani Parsees are 100% pro-Pakistan. ``

So this is what dimmitude does to parsees? everyday you learn something new

Re: # 343
[.... And we might be subjecting the majority to unnecessary, even greatly counterproductive, costs. .....]

Are you saying that minorities in India are NOT patriotic and loyal? .... Come on - just listen to yourself..... I mean - if the world is going to emulate pakis [and saudis and host of other bedouins] as the model for minority affair - then we are all doomed....

Never mind what Behram or Ijaz say here in chowk..... I am sure they are happy in pakiland... I heard there are even a few jews living in pakistan, Iran, Iraq .... and I am sure they are ``happy`` too.... and speaking of happiness, one study says - bangladeshis are happiest on face of earth - so are you going ask all countries be like Bdesh?.....

For every ``happy`` Ijaz - there are thounsands christians being persecuted, for every Kaneria - there are thousand hindus living in fear - afraid to have even hindu names.... paki hindus visiting India alomsot always stay back ......

++++

But I understand where you are coming from..... The muslim problem in India is not because of ``equal-rights`` .... it`s because of the ostrich mentality on part our leaders..... if you let mullahs and criminals represent muslims - then this is what going to happen... as our friends in UK and other europeans are findig out now.....

But these are separate issues.....

Re: # 344

Dear shameless:

I will explain why Pakistani Parsees are 100% pro-Pakistan.

Parsees were invited to Karachi in the early 1800`s, by the British after they won the war with the Sindhi Talpurs. Along with the Parsees, they also invited the Christians. Mostly christians from Goa came to Karachi and made Karachi a thriving business community. Parsees were employed in the railroad, and most of them stayed there in Pakistan after partition.

Even the Hindus who stayed, love Pakistan.

And if you really want to know the depth of it. Parsees are mono-theistic, and so are the muslims. Some might say that almost all of Zoroastriansm has been incorporated into Islam. We have no issue with their religion. Heck, Akbar, even invited the Parsees in his deen-e-elahi.

So there you have it in a nut-shell. I hope this has enlightened you somewhat.

BTW... Dogs are considered very noble in our faith. May be you did not know this as well.

Respectfully submitted,

Dharma

In general (not with regard to Muslim or Hindu or any other women), freedom, equality, individual accountability, etc are not at all universal values.

Submission to external forces, slavery to stronger others, dependence, followership, freedom from individual responsibility, and the resulting predictability and routinization of life are equally important and valued goals, for many much more desirable than freedom, ownership of responsibility etc.

The mistake we make is to believe that all want what we want. We need to forthwith get out of this flawed Nehruvian/Gandhian mindset, and start giving people what they actually value. That is the only basis for a fair, stable, and mutually satisfying relationship.

Better late than never, we need to learn about what makes different people happy, and keeps them satisfied. To the extent possible, that would be the goal of any state.

``So, by insisting on the `equal-rights` model for our minorities, we might be doing our minorities a grave injustice. And we might be subjecting the majority to unnecessary, even greatly counterproductive, costs. ``

This is at best a conjecture. Even if you assume that is plausible, there are lot of variables to consider. For example lack of what rights make the minorities most happy? Right to vote, right to practise religion, right to own property etc. Crazy as it sounds you might have some merit to it. I always wondered about women in islam, that is a disenfrachised group if there is any. And they seem to be bigger supporters of islam than the males atleast on the surface, just like our besharam is to the cause of pakistan. I have feeling it is all relative. If you have nothing even small things make you happy. So starve them of rights, then even talking to them on equal basis makes them happy campers.

Mohar, Dharma

This is an interesting issue that deserves more attention than we give to it. Consequently, we may be seriously jeopardizing our own welfare.

We Indians take it for granted that minorities in Pakistan would be unhappy, and dissatisfied with their `lack of equal rights.`` Few Indians can understand how a Parsi, or a Christian, or a Hindu could be loyal to or patriotic about a state that was made and exists for the benefit of its Muslims.

We have not carried out a reality check. Repeatedly, at least in interacting with the elite of Pakistani minorities, that Indian assumption does not hold: without a doubt, `equal rights` as we understand them, are nowhere as important to Pakistani minorities as we think they ought to be to all minorities.

Behram # 340 provides an eloquent statement. But the point has been made in the past by others, including by Ijaz_gul.

These are not stupid or brainwashed people. And if brainwashing people makes them happy, then what is the morality of not brainwashing people?

So, by insisting on the `equal-rights` model for our minorities, we might be doing our minorities a grave injustice. And we might be subjecting the majority to unnecessary, even greatly counterproductive, costs.

Re: # 340 #besharam

``And who has given you that right, may I ask? Do I need permission from Indian scums like you for the love that I have for my motherland? Or the lack there of? ``
Well i am a curious person, thats why i wonder why house dogs like you feel that they are lions when they are outside. You dont need my permission. That is your nature.

``It is only the Hindu in you who thinks in terms of class. I have never thought in such terms. I must admit, though, that I have always considered Indians as ugly. And that is because I am from the gorgeous Iranian race``

If i were you i would hide my face and dont get out of house much - A pathan may take a liking to your gorgeous body and kidnap you. Who will you complain to then, you little parsi dog?

``[If your country can not treat you as equal to it majority citizens, why i should treat you as equal to a pakistani. you are half a pakistani as far as i am concerned if that.] As if I consider your opinion about me valuable. Give me a freaking break. Don`t dignify yourself by having an argument with me. Please keep your opinion to yourself, I do not need it. ``

It is not a opinion about you per se. It is about all the second class citizen of pakistan.

``A Parsee belonging to the under privileged class must be the biggest joke of the year... ``
You are privileged class in pakistan? Do you have any political power? Dont delude yourself.

``Yes, please continue with your sympathy because that is the only way you would get your ego satisfied. I full sympathize with you and pity you``

We dont need a poor soul like you. We have regular full blooded, first class citizens, who dont take shit from any scum like you for satisifying our egos.

Re: # 340

Dear shameless:

Here you go again, with your selective and convoluted thoughts.

[I am not confusing your love for pakistan for love of islam. I am questioning your love for pakistan.] And who has given you that right, may I ask? Do I need permission from Indian scums like you for the love that I have for my motherland? Or the lack there of?

[You are second calss citizen of your country and so you should get second class status outside your country too. thats why i call you besharam.] It is only the Hindu in you who thinks in terms of class. I have never thought in such terms. I must admit, though, that I have always considered Indians as ugly. And that is because I am from the gorgeous Iranian race.

[If your country can not treat you as equal to it majority citizens, why i should treat you as equal to a pakistani. you are half a pakistani as far as i am concerned if that.] As if I consider your opinion about me valuable. Give me a freaking break. Don`t dignify yourself by having an argument with me. Please keep your opinion to yourself, I do not need it.

Your convoluted thought is that one`s love for its motherland should be questioned just because he can not become a President. Your token PM should be referred to the Sikhs who want Khalistan separated from India. And yes! who murdered your PM Indira Gandhi? May we ask? Were they not sikhs?

A Parsee belonging to the under privileged class must be the biggest joke of the year...
[And ofcourse since you belong to unerprivileged class I understand that you have to justify you existence by reading about similar injustices around the world.]

Yes, please continue with your sympathy because that is the only way you would get your ego satisfied. I full sympathize with you and pity you]

Respectfully submitted,

Re: # 338 besharam1

``You are absolutely confused in mixing my love for Pakistan with love for some religion. And that is the dilema I see with most Indians. Please provide arguments on the merits of the issue and leave religion out. ``

I am not confusing your love for pakistan for love of islam. I am questioning your love for pakistan. You are second calss citizen of your country and so you should get second class status outside your country too. thats why i call you besharam. If your country can not treat you as equal to it majority citizens, why i should treat you as equal to a pakistani. you are half a pakistani as far as i am concerned if that. The point is that whether you can win an election and become president or not, the question is where you can contest at all. Just because the chance is less, you want to close it to all the furtue generation of minorities who may dream of becoming the presidents and leading the nation. If that logic was followed we would not have seen a sikh PM in india. And ofcourse since you belong to unerprivileged class I understand that you have to justify you existence by reading about similar injustices around the world. I full sympathize with you and pity you

shamelessly submitted

Re: # 336 kaalchakra
Assimilation of the minorities by the majority by force is definitely one way to achieve uniformity and seeming lack of dissent as in the case of China and Pakistan. But the definition of majority changes. it maybe based on religion/race/ideas/... etc and if the solution is just assimilation/supression of minorities it is not a long term solution. You can see that in pakistan. Majority want sharia law, majority want religion in their govt and majority want madarasas,.. thats whay they get. It supresses the minority opinion. In the long term freedom not only unleashes creativity in people, it is also moral thing to do.

Re: # 335

Dear Shameless:

Thank you for a response.

If we take your thoughts (about religious minorities, being President of their country), a bit further then almost all 56 countries (that are muslim majority nations) is out of the question. According to your theory then, all minorities have [settle for less rights either because they believe they are lesser humans than the majority or because they are scared of the majority or for any other reason.]

Then, in the remaining 138 countries or so, we see in some countries, there are christian majorities. For example, in Latin America, we have almost 100% christian population. And I do not think that minorities stand a chance of being a President in those countries.

Coming to Africa, we see a constant struggle between two major religions, christianity and islam. And that also, leaves out the religious minority.

Coming to east asian countries, I do not see that the orientals are allowing any non-oriental (whatever their religion is....) or allowing a religious minority to be their President.

Even in the US, as you very well know, the naturalized citizens do not become President. In Britain, the head of the State is the Queen or the King, which is the head of the Church of England. In the communist block countries, one has to be a communist to be a President, which I am not. So I am left out over there.

So, what am I supposed to do? Do not participate in the construction of my motherland, because of your thoughts, eh! Is that what bothers you?

Or is it, that somehow your theory of denigrating Pakistani muslims is debunked, because a Parsi minority, a religious community that you have admiration for, is supporting his own motherland. If an Iranian Zarthushti supported Iran would you have the same problem? Have you ever talked with an Iranian Zarathushti with anti-Iran thoughts? My Iranian friends have called India as the garbage dumpster of humanity.

You are absolutely confused in mixing my love for Pakistan with love for some religion. And that is the dilema I see with most Indians. Please provide arguments on the merits of the issue and leave religion out.

In my opinion, it has almost always been the Indian Hindus who hurl the first insult about muslim religion. I am amazed that muslims have behaved with such dignity and admiration.

If you consider me to be a mouthpiece of a muslim majority country (Pakistan), so be it. I hope that you never cross my path denigrating Afghanistan or Iran, both of which are muslim majority country. But, you chicken hearted Indian, you will never be authentic and bold in your condemnation of a behavor which might be country specific. Instead you bring the dignity of a 1400 year old religion, and your convoluted thoughts only in reference to Pakistan.

Why do I always see the ugly looking, chicken hearted Indians, schmoozing to the glorius muslim Iranians, Afghanis, and Pakistanis?

As always, I shall remain dignified, and

Submit respectfully,