Black Pakistan and White Pakistan

Ranger...

Dude, first law of the internet: Be skeptical.

Just because you saw the name ``Behram`` you assumed that it was Parsi !
Never make such a mistake.

Names mean nothing. You can have a Kanhaiyya Lal and be a flamin commie.
Always judge people on what they stand for and their ideas and opinions - not
by their names, wealth, race or anything superficial.

It is pretty obvious,from his postings, that ``Behram`` is the usual literate
Paki jihadi, masquerading as being peaceful after 9/11. He is in the same
class as tahmed, godot, ylh etc.

No way is Behram a Parsee. I personally know Parsees and they never indulge in the kind of talk that Behram does. It is easy on net to hide ones identity.

re: A woman to admire
It seems Allah has given Paki women more brains than he has given men.
Asma Jehangir proves it well. She literally has Mushy boy by his b@lls.
http://www.dawn.com/weekly/dmag/dmag17.htm
Some interesting allegations that paints a poor picture of Army and the nation:
1. The audience heard firsthand, Dr Shazia Khalid name her rapist, alleging the army captain went unpunished.
2. Asma made a strong case against America supporting the present government which she alleged had laid waste institutions in Pakistan. “The reach of the army is ridiculous today — from controlling the higher institutions of learning to hockey club to censoring Nafdec; from selling eggs to tanks; from dabbling in real estate to directing private, public and corporate enterprises, the only thing that the army is not involved in is beauty parlours.”
3. Having seen with her own eyes three banned religious organizations swiftly step forward with tents for the displaced, Asma asked: “How come these outfits were able to produce tents right away when nobody else could?”
4. She touched upon the thriving self-styled jirga system where mafias have emerged among the grassroots with connections to power in partnership with local thugs and mullahs. Taking the law into their own hands, they wreak the worst kind of punishment on the “guilty”, often making them stand naked in public and forcing their women and men relatives to view the spectacle of torture to the jeers of a frenzied crowd.
Sridhar

Re: # 130

Yea we are pretty spirited, the Pakistani women in Pakistan, we stand up and point at rot when we see it. Indian women have a lot to learn from us.

Aisha Sarwari

Satyamvada,

Behram Atashband is a rather well known zoarastrian, who is currently residing in the United States. He has also been on this website for over 6 or 7 years.

I know all Indians are quite proficient at these tricks... but we Pakistanis don`t follow Gandhi ji.. so please don`t ascribe such trickery to us.

#
He is an insult to the dignified and cultured parsees

Aman Sandhu`s definition of ``dignified and cultured``:

Those who accept BS and nonsense as is... and accept whatever Indians say as God`s gospel.

The author has presented a good analysis of Two Pakistans existing side-by-side, however, the piece lacks neutrality. The Black Pakistan, though the author accepts exists in majority, has been painted as a kind of stigma, a stumbling block. If we delve into a little detail, then first we have to examine the creation of Pakistan itself. Pakistan was created not because the Muslims had a kind of hatred against the Hindus or vice-versa. The Muslims of Undivided India knew that they would be better off in the Undivided India because it would offer them a larger scope. Another point we have to take into account here is that the 200 years of British Rule had badly broken the backbone of general populace, both Hindus and Muslims, and the people has nothing to lose economically either in staying together or separately.

The Muslims of undivided India opted for Pakistan because they had a fear that their Islamic identity will be lost in the Hindu-dominated India. According to Islam, A Muslim is a Muslim always. He has no other identity like Indian, Pakistani, American or so on and so forth. It was for this Islamic identity, Pakistan was created and it had also been accepted by Hindus in general. However, after creation of Pakistan, due to reasons atleast unknown to me (I shall be grateful if some one can throw some light on this aspect), Pakistan started asserting its identity as Pakistan as not as a Muslim country. Even Today( I understand) , Pakistanis would like to be known as Pakistanis more and Muslims less. These neo-nationalists control most of Pakistan i.e. establishment, army, media, philosphical sphere etc now and the traditional nationalists have been cornered or have been sidelined. The clash(if any) between Black Pakistan and White Pakistan is nothing but the clash between the traditional nationalist(who wants to be seen as Muslim) and the neo-nationalist.

Now what is the future of Pakistan?? Whether it is White Pakistan or Black Pakistan. The proponents of White Pakistan will always have to face the question that if white Pakistan is/was the real Pakistan then what was the need of Partition?? Because Undivided India would have been in a better position to meet the economic aspirations of Pakistanis. But while creating Pakistan, the Muslims had compromised on their economic benefits to their religous identity. So material success at the cost of religous identity ,perhaps, is not going to hold much water in Black Pakistan.

Just as there as two Pakistan, as brought out by the author, there are two Indias too. One is the real India-which lives in villages. The real Indian is not who works in Infosys or Wipro or Microsoft--but the real Indian is the one who toils in the village with a land holding of less than 1 Acre. So far the policy in India had been ``Gaon Chodo-Sehar Chalo``(Leave Villages-Move over to cities). It was on the faulty premise that cities(neo-India-let us say) will anyhow absorb the real India and will provide enough oppurtunities to one and all. The result has been a great disaster. The cities have collapsed, they failed to provide jobs to the millions and those who migrated to the cities became jobless. On the other hand, the villages were neglected, the meagure resources were pumped into the cities ,creating havoc at village level. No doubt the poverty in independent India increased by leaps and bounds due to this wrong policy. The correction is now being made(fortunately) though the pace is still slow. The correction is in the form of ``take cities to the villages`` ,you can say. The emphasis now is that instead of brining villages to the cities, let the cities be taken to the villages. This involves construction of roads, providing electricity, communication facilities etc. and more importantly shifting industrial bases to the villages. This way an attempt is being made to convert real-India into neo-India at the grass-root level itself. How far this i going to be successful, only time will tell.

Coming to Pakistan, the same methodology needs to be applied. Instead of cursing Black Pakistan, efforts need to be made to convert Black Pakistan into white Pakistan at the grass root itself. This will involve modifications in education curricula for the poor(I understand it is being done), land reforms( a difficult task but still achievable) etc.

The task in hand for both the countries is gigantic but it is worth trying.

Thanks.

No one has stooped to his level, not all Indians may be dignified but I have not come across a Parsee like him. If he has been on chowk for 6-7 years, does not mean he is a Parsee

Amansandhu...

Behram Atashband writes in various international and national magazines. I have known him for those many years as well... he is a zoroastrian but please continue to delude yourself.

As for not stooping to his level... I think he has been very respectful and dignified in face of the people like Ranger and rsridhar... two of the most abusive people on chowk.

Perhaps.. you are blind as well.

Re: # 38

Romair, that was quite an analysis. But friend, i think you are basically trying to satisfy a lot of Pakistani hearts. You make things seem hunky-dory from a Pakistani perspective. That just isnt the case. Reality is bound to hit you in the face sooner or later. PoK Kashmiris with no vote, no democracy, no constitution of their own, are better off than Indian ones eh? Well as I said, if it makes you feel good, be happy.

Black is beautiful

Saima ... I think you should see that we have proved that ... we Pakistanis are all the blackest of black... and proud of it. Call us Voldemort... call us anything else... but the fact is that the secular, the Islamist, the Muslim, the Non-Muslim... we are all black... and the world must learn to live with us black people... because we ain`t going away.

Here comes another expert on Indo-Pakistan affairs..

``PoK Kashmiris with no vote, no democracy, no constitution of their own, are better off than Indian ones eh``

Well for one thing... they have a vote.. they have their own elected assembly, prime minister and president... they have their own framework which can be described as a constitution... unlike the Indian Oppressed Kashmir (IOK), their voter turn out is always in double figures...

And.. guess what.. they have an added advantage... they are not being shot dead at will by Indians, looking for trophy...


``a group of soldiers killed four civilians in Kashmir and presented them as militants in the hope of securing military awards, an official said on Wednesday. Police have also joined the investigation into the allegations that a colonel, a major and 10 troops gunned down four men in the northern Kashmiri village of Devar on April 20, 2004 and claimed they were insurgents killed in a firefight.The probe was launched after the father of one of the slain men, Madan Lal, said he had received an anonymous letter alleging that all four were killed by the 12 alleged glory-hunters. ``

Another busy day at YLH Law Associates......

Hey ranger buddy...

You are up late...

What is it ... like 1230 at night?

So he is a Parsee, AMAZING.