Black Pakistan and White Pakistan

For an “average” Pakistani, the problem is a lack of opportunity and hope for the future for him/her and their children. The Pakistani Government should pursue policies that should provide hope for the future to the average Pakistani. No hope equals despair that leads to “blackness”.

I failed to see a point in this long-winded article.

Re: # 15
[... even though 50 years in the life of a nation are probably like 5 years in the life of an individual... if at all.. ]

Let us not forget that all foetuses do not evolve into adults. There is high mortality rate in infants. Pakistan has already lost one limb in early childhood. It is early days for both India and Pakistan to make tall claims.

Re: # 16

Dear Kulharee:

You ask Manto...[whatever happened to East Pakistan?] Yes, let us look at Bangladesh. A hot bed of events that you should be worried about. Should you not?

If I were you, I would not take credit on the misadventure in East Pakistan. Now, you have to contend with not only Pakistan, but with Bangladesh. How stupid Indian politicians can be?

You are incorrect to suggets that [I think we should get the rest of it over with sooner than later.] Then, just wait and see how fast your beloved India disintegrates into chaos and anarchy. And how fast those FDI`s run out of dodge.

Grow up, Kulharee. Please grow up.

Respectfully submitted,

Doesn`t anyone have a problem with the ``black`` and ``white`` characterization? Fanon, grave, rolling.

I think this article represents the author`s personal views, moreso than the reality..........For example, I don`t think expat`s hide their Pakistani identity. At least, not anyone I hang around with. People ask me all the time, and I tell them. And no one has any issues with it.......

The dividing line in Pakistan is between the economic haves and have-nots. There really isn`t any other major dividing line. The rest have been created for political advantages. There isn`t one between secularism and orthodoxy - both being foreign concepts to Pakistan. There isn`t one between Shias and Sunnis - other than in tiny little groups. There isn`t one between the average military person and the civilian - both belonging to the very middle and lower middle class of Pakistan......

It is the economic have-nots that never get a chance to say their word. They don`t get it through politics because of feudalism. They don`t get it through religion, because of the domination of the discourse by the orthodoxy and those representing western secularism. They don`t get it economically, because they are poor........

Chowk, itself, would have a completely different discourse if it were accessible to a majority of Pakistan. Even if we set aside the illiterate Pakistan, even if the remaining 40% literate crowd could participate here, the discussions would go in completely different directions........

The Black Pakistan is the rich and empowered Pakistan - doesn`t matter what ethnicity, profession, ideolgical mindset it belongs to. All of us on Chowk are part of this Pakistan. The White Pakistan is the poor Pakistan - people who are dependent on all of us more affluent people, and who have been let down by all of us...........

So the two qualities Pakistan needs are the ability to reduce poverty - doesn`t matter who does it, the military, the civilian or anyone. And the ability of the affluent group to accept blame and criticize itself, as a complete group............not only criticize sub-groups within this group.........

In that sense, Chowk itself, is a debating society for the Black Pakistan. Perhaps, as a first step, we should, somehow make Chowk accessible to the rest of Pakistan. Perhaps an Urdu section, with Urdu fonts should be introduced.........

Kulharee...

I am not comparing US to Pakistan... but Stephen Cohen, the darling of the Indians, does in his book on Pakistan ... ``Idea of Pakistan``... in fact he goes further and says there are three countries founded on the same principle... two of which are US and Pakistan. So go fight with him. Last I heard he was still a scholar who the US state department listened to and who Indians loved to quote...

As for East Pakistan... the idea of keeping Bangladesh within the Pakistan union was Congress` pre-condition to agreeing to partition.

It was an aberration that was quickly corrected.

And Romair represents the other end of the same spectrum of stupidity on which our dear Kulharee is hoisted, chest beatin` and all...

... Yes lets add an Urdu section... but wait ... adult literacy is only in 40s.. ... what about the rest of 50+ % of the population...

These divisions have created because we are unwilling to separate ethnic, religious and cultural divides from the state which must preside over all impartially... A secular democratic egalitarian polity will ensure that there is no division between the black and white... liberal and conservative... the irreligious and the religious...

Re: # 22

Manto Yaar, I don’t need to read an American scholar about the Indian Sub Continent, just as I wouldn’t give a lot of weight to Abdul Rasheed about the civil rights movement of the 60s. But do you really think that it is fair to call it “quickly corrected aberration” when 3 million people paid for this `aberration` with their lives? I think that’s really sick.

Well... yes it is quite sick... but who insisted on it... it was the Congress Party in 1947 who would not hear of two Pakistans instead of one.

It was sick of Indira Gandhi, after having undone her father`s doing, to claim that she drowned something in the Bay of Bengal...

The Lahore Resolution is pretty clear... and so is the acronym Pakistan ... and for that matter the 1930 address of Allama Iqbal.

funny.. Indians don`t mind quoting Stephen Cohen when it comes to bashing Pakistan and now he is irrelevant?

And ... H M Seervai is irrelevant because he is not Hindu but a Parsi... hence ``foreign Iranian``... And Ayesha Jalal is irrelevant because she is Pakistani... and Raj Mohan Gandhi is irrelevant because he is gandhi`s grandson (this frankly is beyond me) ... and Sumit Sarkar is irrelevant because ... well I don`t why... and Irfan Habib is irrelevant because he is an Indian Muslim commie.. who is secretly a Pakistani agent... and Khushwant Singh.. well he is Sikh and therefore a Pakistani agent...

And so the list goes on...

Well with the exception of Swami pandit blah blah who wrote an insightful book on South Asian history ...

abey kulharee, hate to break it to you old boy but your whining dont elicit much sympathy among us pakistanis...in fact i am willing to bet that if this was 1947 and you were our parosee, we would knock on your door at 12:00 am one night and then insert a six feet dunda up your ass so hard that your grand children would be feeling the pain 57 years after the deed.

kaisa?

Hre goes another pathetic pak journalist talking about lack of reporting, she goes on to say that there is no reporting of local news in pakistan. Howmany times has she written about pakistan, the basic truths about pakistan. To write about local business and local acheivements implies that one writes about the hard facts of pakistan.

Has any one written about the legal reality of pakistan, that under pak law murder is not a crime agaist teh state.

Samia, the resons that prevents youy from writing about the pak legal system is the same reason why there is no reporting about pak successes, both relies on reporting on the objecive relity as it exists.

You talk of hoodood as an act of Zia, for the local business reporter pak problems are due to IMF.

Pak mind set is about the notion taht everything is in the book, it is not based on empirical reality.

So much has been written about the failure of world response to the quake. The most annoying is that no one has cared to identify aspects that the pakistanis can change.

Let us take the case of lack of tourism in pakistan. Is there any notion of pak identity. Have your ever seen a pak restaurent in the western world, it is always camofluges as indian. I remeber on restaurent in Australia, it is named Taj-agra. Is there any cultural shows by the pakistanis, any paintings by pakistanis, any movies.... well accept the truth that pakistan by hitching on to the book has denied and killed of any cultural linkages.

Tell me samia, why did the taliban destroy the bhumian budhas, because it came from a country without any sense of culture and history.

``Is there any cultural shows by the pakistanis, any paintings by pakistanis, any movies.... well accept the truth that pakistan by hitching on to the book has denied and killed of any cultural linkages.``

Really?

I suppose now Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, Mekaal Hassan, Raza Kazim etc are not Pakistanis but Indians...

Collin David, Sadequain, Gulgees etc have suddenly changed their nationality and become Indians...

Faiz Ahmed Faiz, Ahmed Faraz, Parween Shakir, Ustad Damin etc are all Indians..

These are world renowned figures... but I don`t expect an ignorant bigot fanatic to know this... because I am sure to Pakistani cultural shows... filth is not even invited...

A visit to the national college of arts would set this rodent right... but would we even give filth like him visa to come to Pakistan?

Re: # 25

Manto yaar, I agree, and I believe that we should have listened to the voices that insisted on not portioning the country. I think Jinnah made a huge mistake and we (including Indians) are all paying for it. He was not such a wise guy.

Re: # Faisaluno

Is taht all you dream about? Go chew a paan yaar that`ll make your lips darker so not to be mistaken as your butthole you idiot. Only garbage comes out of your mouth. Moron.

Re: # 22

I am curious to know what is that principle that is common to US and Pakistan and a third country. Obviously, I am not well read. Pl. don`t read any sarcasm here.