The Trial of a Nation

Re: # 77 HP

I think your information is correct. Kahuta Research Lab was never part of the PAEC which was headed by Dr. Munir. KRL, of all the places, fall (fell) under the Ministry of Finance instead of Ministry of Energy or defence. Ministry of Finance was headed by Ghulam Ishaq Khan and he remained the patron saint of the KRL program for decades.

The said meeting by Bhutto did take place, I have to check where. As the legend goes Bhutto inquired in that meeting from all the nuclear scientists whether Pakistan can produce a nuke or not. The scientists unanimously told him that it was impossible. At that moment Bhutto said that then he would find someone who would make it possible and nation will face this challenge even if it would have to eat grass.

#72

Well then why dont you tell us:

- do the missiles have uranium warheads. If yes how much weapons grade uranium does Kahuta produce?
- If not where did the plutonium come from?

- If it all comes from Kaushab, how large is Kaushab? also open sources say Kaushab started functioning only in the mid `90`s. Is this false?

janjua #64 ``the effort started in the 60s - this khota, a.q. khan made some contributions to the program but nothing compared to others - munir ahmad, samar mubarkmand - to name just two. why you guys never heard about the program itself? - because its never been politically correct to brag about these things.``

Very well put. But dont let facts stand in the way of Urstruly`s blind obedience to the half-brained maulvi ideology.

#65 by r.a.janjua on December 1, 2005 9:51pm PT
“re: hp
this guy AlephLull is an idiot of the highest order - if wiki, high school calculus and serber`s `delightful` book were all that was needed, this world would be one dangerous place - but its good when people say that pakistan does`nt have nukes.”

This dolt lives in a fantasy world…His claim is that the Chinese gave the nukes to Pakistan and Chinese conducted the Pakistani nuke test and the tests never happened in Chagai, Balochistan…Talk about clueless and delusional.

Chinese have a soup kitchen where they dole out nuke bombs to the countries of their choice and no one else in the world knows about it-Not even the Americans. Only A-dull knows about this dark secret…what a dolt.

His fantasies don’t just end there…Sometime ago he was claiming that the Pak Army was planning to conquer and occupy ALL central Asia and perhaps Russia too and start a Pakistani Empire.

His game plan works like this; he goes to the net, copies the info-rephrases that and post that as his own…I have caught him before and I will continue to that until this dolt gets in to his senses… I just marvel at these idiots and clueless from across the Borders.

Re: # 72 HP

I think we should talk to them softly and reasonably. They are our mortal enemies but not our oppressors.

It would be interesting to know what AQK`s brother who lives in India thinks of his nuclear terrorist brother living across the border.

A possible origin botched and forgotten..

kaka`s father studied physics under a gentleman who was sent by Jinnah himself to America to study nuclear physics even before the partition, saying, `You`ll be my nuclear man`.

kaka`s father, who never was a fan of Jinnah, said further, `You see, Jinnah Saheb had it all planned ahead`. After the guy came back, Jinnah was no more and nobody else paid any attention and he was reduced to tutoring kaka`s father.

kaka heard this anecdote in `89 or `88. Why kaka is telling all you chutyas, kaka doesn`t know..

Re: # 67 hamzad

I do not doubt what you are saying. Mohammad Ali Jinnah became Quaid-e-Azam (The Great Leader) not because he appealed to our emotions but because he made his vision became the reality - Just like Dr. Q has. The handling of refugee crisis in a moth eaten Pakistan, initiating Jihad to liberate Kashmir and in fact liberating a part of it, and most of all laying the foundation stone of Pakistan`s military industrial complex i.e. Ordnance Factories which became the forebearer of our nuclear program. It really takes a leader to do all this in a country where in government offices workers were using thornes for common pins to attach documents.

re: hp
this guy AlephLull is an idiot of the highest order - if wiki, high school calculus and serber`s `delightful` book were all that was needed, this world would be one dangerous place - but its good when people say that pakistan does`nt have nukes.

re: 27

the effort started in the 60s - this khota, a.q. khan made some contributions to the program but nothing compared to others - munir ahmad, samar mubarkmand - to name just two. why you guys never heard about the program itself? - because its never been politically correct to brag about these things.

Re: # 64 janjua

I don`t think, among people of Pakistan, it has ever become an issue as to who contributed more towards the program. There are millions of Pakistanis, including me, who would kiss the feet of a sweeper who swept the streets of KRL. The real issues is whether it is honorable for a nation to allow a dictatorship to use national heroes as sacrificial lambs for their own corrupt political expediency?

The nations who have self-respect do not allow others to disrespect their heroes, neither do they do it themsleves. They remain grateful to their heroes for the greater good they cause and they overlook their human shortcomings. By the time Jefferson was writing `All men are created equal...`` for the US constitution, there were 500 black slaves toiling in the plantation of George Washington. But no one calls Washington a slave master. By todays standards that Americans have set for their political opponents, there remains no doubt that Washington was a terrorist but no one calls him that either. But those nations who have to endure vassalge of another nation, their psyche changes. And when the collaborator class becomes the rulers, their psyche does not allow them to view something independently. They always see things from their masters` perspective. As it is evident in the psyche of Pakistan`s ruling class.


Dr. Qadeer is human being too and may committ mistakes but the two accusations 1. He stole the technology 2. He proliferated technology without the knowledge of corrupt Generals are absolute lies.

Here is the link that gives us some information as to who pardoned who in the USA.

http://www.watergate.info/

There are other links as well.

The important point like I said is that Pakistan is a declared nuclear state and an important country in the comity of nations. We can`t afford to be religiously emotional, although we should always be religiously focused because, like Israel, we are an ideological country.

Turd Blossom, A-dull,

I am not asking for something big…I am not even challenging revealed religions or screwed up religions or no religions or some fancy name religions and what not …all I am asking is this….
From my previous post
“I hope Indians have this information in public domain and if they do can someone print the URL to info from some official Indian government site. I would really appreciate that if nothing else, just to get an understanding of the process Indians used.”

You guys are the champions of search engines, can find any ref on the web and then post it here…All I am asking that you post some Indian official govt site that provides information about the Indian nukes like the one A-dull was looking for from Urstruly…That is all there is to it…Why are you crying and posting irrelevant stuff that pretty much anyone can find on the web or elsewhere?

Urstruly:

Dr. AQK is revered in Pakistan and will always be revered in Pakistan. Whatever folly he committed has been pardoned by the President Of Pakistan in the great national interest of Pakistan. This was not the first time in human history that pardon has been extended. This act has been fully accepted by our friends - USA, UK, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Malaysia, etc.

Dr. AQK is in house arrest in his own interest and in the interest of Pakistan.

The fact of the matter is that Pakistan is a country of 150 million strong people, which is also a declared nuclear state. This is a state that Israel wants to have full relations with. This is a state that has played a pivotal role in the laying down of the foundation of reformation of UN. It is critically important that we behave in the world in a responsible manner, not in an emotional one.

So let the brain-washed people react negatively. Sky will not fall.

I wish you well.

:-)

Re: # 59 Ahmadzai

So Dr. Qadeer is pardoned by the criminal who himself is liable to be hung to the next tree for violating the constitution of Pakistan. This shows the moral and mental bankruptcy of our ruling class. Being realpolitikally pragmatic in politics is one thing but selling ones own mother for political gains is other. As human beings we must appraciate this difference and we should be truthful rather than being complacent.

The least this criminal can do is is to apologize to the nation and to Dr. Khan and his family for all the wrong he has done in this sordid affair. I know that the oppression of the corrupt ruling class is so overwhelming and brutal that Pakistani nation could not stand up for Dr. Khan against this attrocity but least of the Jihad is to consider an evil as evil in ones heart. That is what we should do. Dr. Khan has done absolutely nothing wrong. Pray for the justice for the innocent.

That post wasn’t aimed at Hydrophobia – very few if any of my posts in the last year have been written primarily with him in mind. It was intended for people who might have read up on some of this in the past and who have at least a passing familiarity with the ideas of fissile material, critical mass and implosion. It’s a thumbnail sketch; explaining every part of the argument for the greater military utility of plutonium in excruciating detail would take way too much space.

IMO it’s not difficult to get a basic understanding of the issues involved. There’s a delightful little book by the late Robert Serber called The Los Alamos Primer. It’s based on mimeographed lecture notes prepared for experimental physicists and engineers at Los Alamos during WW II. It requires only high-school level physics and maths as prerequisites – the merest dash of calculus; an engineering education would be massive overkill. Wolfson’s Nuclear Choices is an excellent supplement – or complete substitute, for people who want a completely non-technical but still accurate and lucid explanation. The Wikipedia articles (on nuclear weapons design, etc.) are also very good. With that background, an alert, curious but skeptical person should be able to sift through assorted claims that appear in the media and separate the wheat from the chaff. For amateur fanatics, there’s a great deal more fascinating material available in the public domain.