Church Lures Gujarat Tribals to Christ

#77

Holy Prophet (pbuh) has re-validated the Judo-Christian law on apostasy by his actions and spoken word - law that demands the death penalty for apostasy - through the manadate given to him by Allah himself through verse 6:90 (The Cattle v90: ``Those were the (prophets; refrring to atleast 20 prophets who are mentioned by name in the preceding verses) who received Allah`s guidance: Copy the guidance they received; Say: ``No reward for this do I ask of you: This is no less than a message for the nations.``



So Holy Prophet made it mandatory to ``Copy the Guidance`` of the Judo-Chrsitian law is it is stated below:


For following another religion: Exodus 22:20 states: He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed. See also and Numbers 25:1-15.

For proselytizing (conversion): Deuteronomy 13:1-10 states that a person who tries to convince an Israelite to convert to another religion must be killed.

the b1tch against conversions in indian is the fear of separatism. this is somewhat misguided imo. north-east separatism has reasons other than religion. e.g. bodos are hindus. in south, there is a lot of conversion to christianity, some from other forms of christianity (e.g. syrian orthodox)..there is no known separatism emanating from that. same is true of centra indian tribals.

in old days, when the modern indian nation was new, the converts used to have this sense of alianation because of language and the new-found ``skills`` assiciated with it. e.g. these converts would learn the guitar or piano, and not nadaswaram or the bharatnatyam. now, english is not that big a deal..and more christians are comfortble with learning whatever instrument they please. so the bogey of separatism is misplaced imo.

so, while i think all this conversion stuff is stupid and definately would oppose denigration of religion as a sales-trick, there is not problem with allowing conversions at all, and that is essentially the indian state and more or less indian society view...conversions are legal and happen all the time. commies are against hindu missionaries.

urstruly: I hope you are busy perusing the Quran to find support for your statement per my request, and that is why you have not yet come back with a response.

Thank you, harimau.

Also, I await your explanation on the other questions i asked in #79. Thanks in advance.

Ref Mullah32 #10

[...you wont find any pakistani on chowk berating christian missionaries in pakistan the way i see the ``educated babus`` like avkrishna in his post below, or the writer of this article.]

Of course not.

The missionaries don`t engage in conversion activities in Pakistan. The punishment for that is death by stoning.

As to accepting the freebie services, after all the dhimmies owe it to the People of the True Faith.

kaurasach #80 Do you have any basis for saying that hindus are converting to sikhism in pakistan since the environment is more hostile to hindus?

And how do you explain individuals like Dinesh Kaneria (popular cricket player, Pakistani hindu) and Bhagwan Das (Pakistani hindu, appointed acting chief justice of the Pakistan Supreme Court; judge responsible for trying and sentencing to a jail term on corruption charges a former Commander in Chief of the Pakistan Navy)?? And how do you explain the warm reception that thousands of Indian hindus received when they visited Pakistan last year?

78,

Tauheed Ahmed.


First let me tackle the sikh situation.

Most converted earlier due to appeal or conviction......Later most converted for personal interests.....It is still the case.....Many Sindhi Hindus in Pakisatan are converting because sikhs fare better - the environment is more hostile to Hindus.......

many hindus converted for individual interests during sikh rule.....the notorious Lal Singh and Tej Singh to please Ranjit singh and win favors......

These types of conversions has hurt sikhism..........

kaura: and furthermore, if the converted for the wrong reasons, how come they dont realize their mistake (as you obviously do) and undo it by converting back to hinduism?

kaura #75 ``MOST Indians coverted for wrong reasons.....and were victims of circumstances...... ``

is this true only for christians? or muslims too? or sikhs too? and if not, why not?

urstruly: ``In Islam, the conversion of a Muslim to another religion is strictly forbidden and Islamic polity imposes death penaly to the apostates.``

Kindly provide verses from the Quran that support your statement.

After going thru the discussion below, it is easy to realize that as compared to other religions, Islam has the laws on conversion that resonates with very nature of man. In Islam, the conversion of a Muslim to another religion is strictly forbidden and Islamic polity imposes death penaly to the apostates. The prolystelization of another religion in Muslim politey is permitted but to the non-Muuslim subjects of the state. Islam thus goes beyond individual and establishes itself as a social responsibility also.

MOST Indians coverted for wrong reasons.....and were victims of circumstances......
They think conversion is easy way out of the bondage.......the Chrstns are refered to as `chooras` in Pakisatan and India......reason - their behavior doesnt change.......

Changing your name from ``Phato`` to ``Fleroza`` doesn`t work......

The `converts` are almost never accepted by the original adherents of the faith........and end up at the bottom of the ladder in the new faith.......``Mahzbi`` sikhs were never accepted amongst the equality of sikhs......BOTH sides are to share the blame.......`the mahzbis` thought that adding singh is sufficient.......they never gave up their `lowly` habits......

The `chooras` also were never assimmilated in Islamic S. Asia........

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While muslims use threat, force, and violence to convert most (It continues today in Bangladesh, Darfur, and PakiSatan)......the `civilized` West Chrstns use BRIBES to convert, they pay money, medicines, clothes, - luxuries to these poor........large number of `chooras` were bribed into Chrstnty in Punjab....

WHY are they never able to convert a middle or a higher class Indian?

Hindians are to share the blame......they are an EXCLUSIVE society.......foreigners take advantage of this......have done thru out history and will continue to.........

They should also have MISSIONARY work......``Hare Krishna`` and ``Bogi Yogi`` are not missionary works......

They should learn from Mormons and other believers........and if nothing works........go the muslim way.......``death or Izlam``.......

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Startus in a society is natural phenomena......but the lower castes and tribals shouldn`t be excluded or exploited.......i

Re: # 37

DM,

```` I should emphasise that a declared Islamic Republic should not be judged by the same criteria as a state which is proud of its secular credentials````

I might be even more to the right than you on this issue. I dont think Secularism as such is accepted by the majority of Hindus. We dont cherish it as much as we do about our democratic rights. Maybe it`s the practice of this principle which puts me off. Secularism in India had come down to appeasement of minorities and apathy towards the majority. We need to correct that even if that means we have to re visit this aspect of our constitution,

Thanks,

Religion is an identy,roots of the people,changing colour by plastic surgery wont make Michael Jackson white.Hinduism is one of the oldest religions of the world and the existing hindus may never know the torture their ancestors have gone through to stay hindus under islamic and christian rule over their country.To change religion by looking at miracles or because of free medicines is absurd.The hindus are themselves to blame for the state of the religion at present,there has to be more compassion and charity,more religious charity institutions are needed by the hindus and not the fanatic ones.Christian missionaries are doing a good job by doing so much for the people but in the end if their motive is conversion then it is not charity at all,conversion should come to an end by whatever means.
I may differ with a lot of readers but according to me religion is by birth,when a muslim boy is small since that age he is reading koran and is taught all about islam,by the time he is an adult does one expect him to convert,does he have a choice anymore,he is allready brainwashed completely.Only when the hindus dont practice their religion and teach their children properly then they are easy to convert,but if these church intitutions are converting they have to be countered ,not by violence but by mending our own ways

I agree with an earlier comment by tahmed -

Instead of applauding the missionaries of Christ for their work not only in India, but also Africa and the jungles of the Amazon - and trying to emulate them, (for India once had a horde of - to quote Shashi Tharoor - `Travelling Salesmen of Salvation` - the Brahmin preacher-priests), we deride them (the Christian misionaries) and remain bigoted (maintaining an outdated caste-system).

The Hindus are largely to blame for their own downfall. It is a bitter pill to swallow for any Hindu. But it must be done. Its the damned truth. Question is what is to be done about it? Often times, as now, to show their strength rioting is taken recourse to. What is needed is charity and goowill - the basis of any religion.