The American Nightmare: No Exit, No Entry

Re: # 141

Saima Ji…there is plenty of descent and debate within the country. We don’t need Nazis telling us how to treat prisoners, nor do we need French to lecture us on race relations. If we need some help with pancakes or Maple syrup, we will ask for your help.

No one is personally attacking you. We are only attacking your point of view, which is neither pointy nor viewy. Trust me with such thin skin, you won’t last a day in New York City, and forget about working in a corporation.

ZahraJ #131: ``That`s a realistic and philosophical approach. Sweet. Let`s hope that it will provide some food for thought to the Canadians on board. They may be able to see beyond their cultural mosaics and health care benefits.``

Do you have any practical knowledge of Canada, or are you simply shooting from the hip? How long have you lived in Canada? I spent quite a few of my elementary school years in the USA. And quite a few of my college and professional days in the USA. Yet during all this time, I knew nothing about Canada. Not next to nothing. But simply nothing. And not a single American I met knew anything about Canada..........

Nothing wrong with that.........But one can only comment intelligently on a subject, if one has some knowledge of it. Otherwise, one ends up looking like a fool, amongst people, who do have knowledge of the subject.............So to have any kind of intelligent discussion with you on this subject, one would have to query you on your exposure to the topic you are commenting on.............For starters how much understanding do you have of the cultural mosaic and health benefits in Canada? Does the Canadian govt. pay for my massage if I want one? Can my kids study Urdu and/or Punjabi in schools? Why is it a mosaic to begin with? Why is health care so important in Canada? Who was Aaron Wilson and how is he related to health care in Canada, etc.?

Re: # 141

Please do not lay the blame on me for misunderstanding your write-up. Blame the convoluted article covering million bits and pieces to confuse the readership. The glitzy title was ready to make the readers believe, ``THAT`S IT! We found the answer to all the unspoken secrets`` :) As a writer, you were mocking your reader`s intellect. That`s my concern. Let`s move on. I hope to read a thorough and comprehensive piece next time. There`s always a next time. The world does not end here. We do not need to fix everything right now.

Take Care.

After reading this write-up, I am a Pardesi fan. I hope to see a thought provoking and illuminating analysis by him.

# 141, 144 by SaimaShah

You don’t have to be upset…but I felt that there is a lot that you need to know about American corporations and other facets of life that probably you are not familiar with due to various reasons including 1. You have not spent much time in the US and 2, You most likely have not worked for major corporations in the US.

Your inexperience often leaves you short of some coherent ideas on the role of the US corporations not only in US but also outside of the US.

No, I have no personal concerns about the job security. In fact, I don’t even need one.

I will wait for the second part...

Re: # 147

Thanks Zahra

Point taken. Article sucked and didn`t meet your standards.

The column perspective is holistic. I am fighting a monster--the ideas around globalization are vast, exploratory and interdisciplinary.

Btw, just an FYI, from what I read, the Canadian health care system also sucks. People go to India for surgeries.

Dost-mittar #143: ``I am hoping that some smart politician would campaign on the pledge of putting a ceiling on corporate compensations, maybe even a maximum ratio between the highest and lowest paid worker in the firm.``

I don`t think is possible or even recommended. The market has to decide this. Or it has to be worldwide. If USA puts up a ceiling on executive salary, and UK does not, then all the top executives will head for the UK.........

I see this daily in the Canadian IT industry. There is such a huge differerence in the skill sets of IT executives in Canada and in the USA that it is not even funny. I would not be exagerating if I were to say that the guys running the IT depts. of top Canadian banks etc. are quite incompetent. I have personally met quite a few CIOs and VPs etc. here. It has gotten to a stage, where I can almost say, as a rule, that unless the executive guy is a desi or arab etc., he will be a goof.

In the USA, it was certainly not like that. I found Americans to be the most competent executives............

It is the same at the senior technical level. There are very few Canadian born (gora) senior software architects, managers etc. who are worth anything. Most of the good ones are first generation immigrants from South Asia, China, Iran etc.........

This is despite the fact that Canada is the most (?) e-nabled large country in the world. It has excellent universities, which, unlike US universities, are all accessible to all finanical levels of the society. Just U of T, alone has 80 Comp Sci Ph.D professors.

Interestingly, I ran into quite a few competent Canadian IT people, in the USA. The reason is simple. Silicon Valley pays quite a bit more than Canada. As do the executive corporate positions in USA. So the top Canadian executive, technologists migrate out to the USA, temporarily, to make a lot of money. This is despite the fact that some huge % of Canadians (over 90% ?) say that they do not want to be any other nationality than Canadian. And Canada has been, on average, the highest ranked country on the UN`s HDI, in the world. It was no. 1 for seven straight years. And Canadian cities are easily ranked the best in North America, and second only to Switzerland in living conditions............

This is the area where the USA excels, over all countries. It provides the most enabling connditions for the top x % (1-5%) of people to succeed and grow and create and become filthy rich and enormously affluent...............However, on average, for the remaining 95%, I would have to say, Canada is better..........

Re: # 149

Thanks for the reply.

To be frank this article had a tangential reference to corporations--global corporates, not just American. Freesoul defended the sense of empowerment and autonomy that workers feel in some corporate cultures, even though that wasn`t the point I was making at all.

Anyway, next time for more.

rgds

S

Romair:

I agree that it cannot be restricted to Canada. But the U.S, I think, is the leader in this area and, if it sets an example, others could follow.

Re: # 151

The reason for the incompetence in Canada is several fold:

1. Hiring is on very narrowly defined competencies unlike the US
2. There is a strong bias against foreigners with accents, so immigrants don`t get upper level jobs unless they join at low levels and prove themselves.
3. Whereas US doesn`t care where someone got certified, Canada does.

Re: # 143

DM,

``The issue of welfare is somewhat different in my opinion. I do not think that it is the job of a corporation to improve societal welfare, other than by doing what it is supposed to do, i.e., creating wealth by make efficient use of resources in delivering its product or service.``

I never said that corporations should maximize welfare. Nor is it`s job to maximize wealth or efficiency.....it`s job is to simply maximize profits. In maximizing profits it may or may not maximize efficiency (e.g. under negative externalities).

GT.

# 148 Zahra G – Thank you.

#136 Saima,

{There is a lot more than just the educational system as you understand it. Just fixing the school system isn`t possible. The problem goes deeper}

I just mentioned education system since to me that’s the foundation for any society that wants to keep its competitive edge. Yes, there are other issues, but then which country does not have problems. Ultimately, you are graded on relative basis and I think American system is still the best humans have developed so far. Let me give you some reasons why I am so bullish on this country knowing fully well all the problems we face.

- Which country adopted the “enemy countries” as equal economic partners after bitter war and helped them to stand again on their own two feet - Only USA after WW 2.
- Which country bankrupted its enemy (Soviet Union) competitively and then immediately helped it to set up true and tested market oriented capitalist system?
- Which country adopted its “totally different” (like black and white) citizens as their own after all the injustices done to them? We do not want to compare that to our own immoral desi attitudes with respect to minor shade differences. Do we?
- Which country adopts immigrants from various countries and allows them to reach as high level as possible (well, almost) that they could have achieved in their own native countries?
- Which country gets bombed by some religious fanatics and right after that tries as best as possible to protect its citizens who were being harassed by street urchins?

I can go on and on ..

All I am saying is that USA has that moral, competitive and open minded culture and toughness of character. If it could deal with those gigantic issues, our current problems are absolutely manageable. People are fully aware of the issues here. Unfortunately, lots of our resources are tied in fighting with an ideology that we have not figured out how to deal with. Other problems, we do not know how to fix yet our welfare and dependency culture. We are struggling with “democrats and their demagoguery” about how the government can do everything for everybody.

So please, be patient with us. And yes, on a higher level there is nothing wrong with our corporate world no matter how many nasty things you might have heard about Martha Stewart, Enron and GM.

() Now, Time For What I Thought Of the Interactions ()

Thanks to all posters:

I was touched at some people`s faith in America--somewhat blind I`d say but interesting (and highlighted in the article as the popular rationale). My viewpoint (as in the article) is that America is not positioned to succeed in the global realities of today because of various factors highlighted in the article, there will be more on this in the following months.

The replies unfortunately proved the points in the article. The dissenters and critics of the system tend to be outside America rather than from within--any dissenter is either labeled Marxist (I got that several times) or non American i.e., European/Canadian without US work experience (hilariously off) or a clueless FOB desi (points to a hang-up).

I got some excellent replies that went beyond labeling, tangential `facts`, defensive postures and personal attacks. These did not agree with me in many cases, however, they provided important feedback that I will consider next time around. Replies from GT, dash dash dot dash dash (man, it is hard to quote your nick), Inquirer, SaminaSha, kidbeegorilla, mirmir were educative. Pardesi, freesoul, and ZahraJ read into the article somewhat but the feedback was interesting. Their responses helped me understand just how sensitive this topic can be.

Btw, it isn`t like that in other comparable countries--this type of chasm between Left and Right is more often in less developed societies with strong income and educational disparity between the Haves and Have Nots. You guys might want to get out more in the world. May be things have changed in your countries of origin and elsewhere while you were in America.

I really don`t want to get pulled into a mine is bigger type of debate that some replies went into, so I`d rather not give my feedback about those. Lastly, the story of globalization is deeper and more interesting than whether America is the best place in the world or not blah blah.

I think societies should set up the following system:

- They should be Capitalist, in nature, with low taxes on business.....
- Personal taxes should be as high as required, increasing exponentially, as one gets richer. There should never be a situation, where one guy is a billionaire, while others are homeless
- Education should be carried out in a completely socialist manner. Everyone should have access to any school or university they can get into............

To a great extent, Canada is kind of like this. People may be surprised to know that business taxes, specifically for small businesses, are lower in Ontario than in California. I pay less taxes for my small business here than I would in San Jose

Personal taxes are higher in Canada, but not as high as many people think. The top Canadian tax bracker, after which taxes become consistent, is actually lower than in USA. On the whole, I pay 3-4% more personal taxes here than in California. However, other states with lower state tax than California have even lower taxes....

There is really only one area, where Canada taxes significantly higher. And that is sales tax. It is 15% on everything, except essentials. While in USA it is around 7-8%.......

In return, health care is free in Canada. People here are obsessed with free healthcare. Don`t know why. But what I like is that all university education is cheap, to the point of being free through state loans. McGill, the Harvard of Canada, costs about the same as any normal Canadian state university.......

Canada has been running a budget surplus for years. And will have a budget surplus for the foreseeable future. In addition, the Canadian dollar is predicted to reach 1-1 parity with the USA dollar. It is around 85 cents right now. When I moved here a few years ago, it was at 62 cents...........

USA is not going to just flop over and die. If it did, the whole world would collapse. But it is definitely not set up as well as before, for the long run, at the macroeconomic level. It has budget deficits for the foreseeable future. And its currency is tanking. I have sold everything I could which was in US dollars. And its housing market (the only thing keeping people rich) is going to collapse, like a bubble, anyday............

Most of all, no one in the US govt. seems to be willing to make corrections...........

Re: # 158

Dear Romair:

You are incorrect when you suggest .... [... And its currency is tanking....]. Actually, the dollar has appreciated against all major currencies.

Respectfully submitted,

Re: # 157

Saima,

With due respect, you have pulled yourself into a subject area that you had little or no knowledge. Obviously, you could not do justice with the scope. There is very little discussion in this article on globalization and the impact on the rest of the world. Each para hammers on ``the American this and the American that``. To top it all, you are constantly contradicting yourself in your interacts. Who is being sensitive? I thought you said that you were not talking about Americans/America, you were educating your readers on global trends and threats. I have put together a listing of your global views for your own reference:

[If people spend, the American economy will create jobs. If the American economy creates jobs, you will have money and then you can buy some nice things that will make you happy. Or as in the past few decades, the jobs will help you pay off your credit card, car, store card and loans for things you consumed today. ]

[American incomes have not grown in the last 4 years and in fact fallen steadily from 2000. This big fact is glossed over in mainstream media. Instead consumers are informed about the overall growth in GNP.]

[The American nation created amazing Universities that Americans don’t have the money or time to attend anymore.]

[An American’s life is a graph of lifetime earnings in which education is a terrible expense that reduces credit worthiness.]

[Why don’t we hear more about it in America? Apart from a few watered down, offbeat ‘opinions’, Alan Greenspan’s world-view rules. Just what has happened and who knows about it?]

[But, why aren’t welfare economists stepping forward to analyze the Development As Unfreedom of America? Why don’t we hear more voices of dissent? ]

[A central tenet of American life is that all problems are treated with the same solution; change the price and fit a model.]

[American democracy is founded in the volunteer association, the grassroots group that comes together and addresses an issue. But now those associations and community groups that were the backbone of the American system are not so active.]

[Mainstreaming of American life perpetuate. What this means that all the people in positions of power have the same values, otherwise they don’t get there. Thanks to a filtering process adopted by all corporations that weeds out all nay-sayers, the Corporate only hires its own kind.]

[Corporations succeed because of the world’s American dream of the good life. It will seduce with a house, a car, a mobile phone, a good life and the promise that if you work hard enough and if you are smart enough one day you can sell something to the world that makes you rich and solve all your problems.]

[At heart, the American is sure that others in the world are exactly like him with the same American dream. There is proof of that in the way so many people used to make their way to America to earn the right to be American. In his open generosity, the American just wants the whole world to be like him. Crack the same jokes, have the same concept of what’s fair and good, take the same responsibility for the good life that he does and just get on with it. To the American, this is at the heart of the democracy that he wants to world to have. America wants the world to be like America, and is unwilling for America to follow the same rules as the rest of the world.]

[Perhaps numbed by the American lifestyle, Americans cannot even think.]

The point isn`t that the article sucks. The point is that you cannot even justify your own perspectives and are changing gears. What`s the source of the above information and trends? You have thrown way too many spices in the pot and when examples are given to you negating your generalizations, you have no substance to add.

I recommend reading Pardesi.


Happy Thanksgiving!