Withdrawing from Iraq: A Disaster Waiting to Happen?

And, while I`m at it, you can click here for info on the recent Cairo conference and one man`s take:

http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=10662

Some excerpts:

Peace Talk
Shiites, Kurds and Sunnis are trying to sort things out in Iraq. Too bad the Bush administration isn’t in on the plan.
By Robert Dreyfuss
Web Exclusive: 11.22.05

``The fact that the United States is not trumpeting the importance of the Cairo peace talks, and the fact that Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and other top-level officials did not attend it, are failures of diplomacy. Not only did scores of Iraqi political leaders travel to Cairo to talk face to face in a manner that could not have happened in Baghdad, but the meeting was also attended by heads of state, including Egypt’s President Hosni Mubarak and Algeria’s President Abdelaziz Bouteflika and by the foreign ministers of Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Iran. After three days of talks, the attendees decided to convene a full-fledged peace conference in Cairo in late February or early March.``

``The significance of the meeting is that it brought together Shiite and Kurdish officials with leaders of various Sunni factions, including some of those with close ties to the Iraqi resistance. Waiting in the wings were people representing a spectrum of groups currently battling the U.S. occupation. According to Aiham al-Sammarae, who served in Iraq’s 2003-2004 interim government, several leaders of insurgent groups went to Cairo to participate on the fringes of the meeting. Opposition from Iraq’s main Shiite parties made it impossible for them to attend the conference itself, but that may be the next step. In a surprising statement after the conference, the attendees condemned terrorism but added that “resistance is a legitimate right of all peoples.” The conferees clearly intended to marginalize the forces associated with Abu Musab al-Zarqawi’s Al Qaeda in Iraq while encouraging opposition forces led by Iraqi nationalists, Baathists, and former military officers to join the talks.``

Here`s yet another interesting item from today`s ``Washington Monthly``:

``November 23, 2005
BOMBING AL-JAZEERA....This goes right to the top of the ``seriously weird`` pile:

President Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a ``Top Secret`` No 10 memo reveals.

But he was talked out of it at a White House summit by Tony Blair, who said it would provoke a worldwide backlash.``

Read the full story here:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/

According to news reports, the U.S. has pressured Iraqi leaders to call for a timetable for withdrawal of U.S. troops. This is seen as a cover - Bush doesn`t want the ``draw-down`` (already under way) to look like his administration is caving in to the Democrats. Now Iran has added its voice to that of the U.S. in calling for a timetable. These snippets from today`s news:

``Iraqi leaders have put persistent differences to one side and agreed on their first joint statement, calling for a timetable for the withdrawal of foreign troops from the country.``

``Iran`s spiritual leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, has called on Iraqis to demand a timetable for the withdrawal of US troops, stressing that the US is responsible for Iraq`s suffering.``

This article is just an example of the numbed, illogical and thoroughly illinformed view of the desi americans who are as ``dumbed`` up as the rest of the the US.

The Evils that are purported and the boogeyman aka US style listed out in this article are just on the verge of being benign albeit with a deadly rancour. So here is the ``EXPERT`` first world assessment as preached by Mr Hamid. We got in there, oops, but now we musnt get out as the boogeyman from the three sides will just make this area more susceptible to ``TERRORIZM`` the z would be the new US spelling of the word offcourse. This was a disaster long before the US got into the Iraq, this was a disaster when Saddam came into power backed by the CIA, this was a disaster when the US planted the Shah which eventually resulted in the frency full iranian revolution.

And now when the US is in there, it still remains to be a disaster, the most important thing to the US forces is there own security. Saddam was a monster many times over, but he was also a coward and divided and ruled iraq with full support of the western ``well meaning`` folk. So now it doesnt matter whether the US forces stay or leave, civil war is on the way, the ghost of islamic orthodoxy has been released because unfortunately we muslims tend to only find refuge in the most right of our islamic ``inspired`` idealogies. So I assure you Mr Hamid, your First worldly comfort levels with white men with guns ruling the unruly Arabs as being the only solution, was never a solution to begin with.

The only heroes in this case and the sole victims of this war by the west upon their former puppet dictators are the people of iraq. Who with all the onslaught still live on and manage to continue their existence in some shape and form. They did it before at the time of the Mad dictator, they will somehow manage to go through the rest of the their days.

And they most certainly not as worked up about the white men with guns staying in order to have ``DEMOKRAZY`` as Bush keeps invoking the now redundant word in Iraq. Democracy is not a invocation that you can wish for another people and another place, it is an organic growth of a society which emerges in some ways from perilous times. However the West specially ensures that the Peril continues. Irar today, Iran tommorow and maybe Syria the day after.

#15 by Kulharee

[This is one funny logic,,, we killed a million people because you supplied us weapons.]

Yes, this is the same logic that caused Musharraf to lament the reluctance of donors to be generous with earthquake relief and aid, as if it was the West`s responsibility to oblige Pakistan.

#17 by malik99

[You will notice that of those 25, muslims were perpetrators in only one : The Armenian killings.]

Yup, the killings of Bengalis in East Pakistan doesn`t count as a genocide because apparently, the Bengalis weren`t humans to begin with.

Before people get too carried away in jokes, please reflect on the top 25 worst human killings of the last 400 years. You will notice that of those 25, muslims were perpetrators in only one : The Armenian killings. The rest of them, from WWI, WWII, Nazi holocaust, Spanish Inquisition, Khmer Rouge, Vietnam war etc etc, were all perpetrated by our gentle and civilized christians brothers.

So if we look at micro-level, then every bomb blast makes you feel that you have been living under siege because of Muslims. But if you look at macro-level, you will realize that the fathers/grandfathers of most of the wise-ass interactors on this board, who are cheering the killings in this world, were 2-bit slaves and ``babus`` serving their colonial masters not too long ago.

masadi #14

`` The U.S. went to ``liberate`` the Iraqis they say, ``liberate`` them from the face of the earth, killing over 100,000 and destroying the infrastructure of the entire country- that used to be the most developed out of all Arab countries in the 1970s before Reagan lured his ``man in Baghdad`` to start a bloody war with Iran that killed over a million- Of course, and then the U.S. tried to ``liberate`` both those countries by supplying both with weapons once the dynamic of the war had taken hold. ``

How can Reagan lure Saddam to start the war with Iran ? Even if Reagan could lure Saddam where does Saddam`s brain goes ? He is not dumb. He survived for 25 years before being deposed by US invasion. Iraq was a Soviet client state with Soviet equipped military. How does US have influence in such a country ?

Since the fall of the Shah the only weapons US sold Iran was the $50-100 million in weapons for the Iran-Contra deal.

# 14

Ladies and gentlemen, that was OBL reporting live from Rwanda where he is helping the oppressed as he did in Bosnia and Kabool. Last week one of his compatriots blew up a wedding party and sent some 50-60 Jordanians to hell, but the lady bomber is still available for future liberations without lubrication.

This is one funny logic,,, we killed a million people because you supplied us weapons.

No one stopped anyone from going and helping the Tutsi. Did someone stop someone?

I think all the anti-Americans should go and help the Tutsi to make themselves useful.

The U.S. went to ``liberate`` the Iraqis they say, ``liberate`` them from the face of the earth, killing over 100,000 and destroying the infrastructure of the entire country- that used to be the most developed out of all Arab countries in the 1970s before Reagan lured his ``man in Baghdad`` to start a bloody war with Iran that killed over a million- Of course, and then the U.S. tried to ``liberate`` both those countries by supplying both with weapons once the dynamic of the war had taken hold.

How about the U.S try to liberate its own oppressed folk, over 36 million in the U.S. suffer from chronic hunger, over 46 million in the U.S. have no health insurance or protection from catastrophic illness- Life expectancy for oppressed minority groups in several localities in the U.S. are worse off than that in Bangladesh, according to the New England Journal of Medicine- How come the U.S. didnt go and ``liberate`` the Tutsi when the Hutu in Rwanda slaughtered over 800,000 of them, or try to liberate the Iraqis when Rumsfeld went to shake Saddam`s hand shortly after he had used chemical weapons? This ``liberation`` business is a big farce. The Iraq adventure has backfired for the Bush administration, they still want a foothold in an oil rich region, and protection of Israel is a major concern for them as well. They don`t even hid these facts, they stated them openly in their letter written to Clinton in 1998- http://newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

For details on the illegality of the U.S. invasion and occupation (not liberation) of Iraq see http://iraq.rationalreality.com

Re: # 12

Dear Muj23, You haven`t seen me get angry yet. This is just a little appetizer. I am only warming up. Give me a little time.

Dear Malik,

You will note that I refrained from any approval of moving into Iraq when the US did. That was, obviously, a mistake made because of being hateful, emotional and un-thorough. However, those are the same emotions that are leading us towards the mistake of moving out now. The biggest price being paid for the occupation is not by the American forces, rather the Iraqi people. A response driven by emotions will only cause further chaos.

Regarding your comment about Nejad stating ``its one thing to say and its another thing to do,`` what do you think his policy would be if he was the sole superpower... just say and not do? I doubt it.

Dear Kulharee,

The magnitude of anger in your postings are scary. Destroying and getting destroyed is a result that is not just a lose-lose for everyone, it also makes our lives while we`re alive that much more miserable and uncertain.

burpinder #7

`` Iranians aren`t Arab, stupid. ``

They do stupid things from time to time

Re: # 7


>>Iranians aren`t Arab, stupid.<<<


Burpinder, Same thing.. They are all the same. When George Bush gets into Ahmadinjad’s and Asad’s behinds, he is not going to separate Arabs from Iranians or vice-versa. As far as we Americans are concerned, all enemies of Israel and United States are bloody Arabs. They all have the same Allah and Hazballa. If you have an issue with that, that is your problem. Nothing can be done about that. Some while ago Texans whacked a Sikh mistaking him as an Arab. Good on them.


Re: # 9
........I think the Kurds maybe the only population in the Middle East, which are relatively pro-USA............

Romair Sahib… Israel is not in Europe contrary to popular beliefs. USA didn’t go there to get a foothold for the oil. They now get less than a ¼ of their oil from that region, and it is going to become even less within the next decade. USA went there to help liberate people of that region that have lived under oppression and misery for most of their lives (it also went there becuse some Wahabi mofos didnt know how to fly planes properly and stop on red light). I don’t know if anyone is counting or not, to date, over 200 mass graves have been discovered in Iraq. The Wahabi inspired Sunni mofos are now shytting in their pants but were dead silent when Shais and Kurds were being butchered by their daddy Saddam. The worst mistake that the US did was to go and liberate Kuwait. They should have let these Arbi Sunni Wahabi morons kill one another.

It`s a damned if you do, and damned if you don`t situation, for the USA, in Iraq. If they stay, things will remain bad. And if they leave, things could become even worse. Quite a bit like what happened in Afghanistan, when the Soviets invaded..........

From a realpolitik view, if the USA still wants to achieve its original objectives of controlling oil, and establishing a furthur foothold in the area, in my opinion, they only have one option. It will be disastrous for Iraq, but beneficial for the USA:

They need to let the country federate or divide into three parts. The Shia part in the South will be in control of Iran, through Islamic Iraqi party. Sistani, himself, being an Irani Ayatollah. The Sunni part in the middle will remain volatile and filled with violence. Americans will remain hated in both these parts........

However, the northern Kurdish part is where Americans have popularity. Iraqi Kurdistan is basically a semi-country of its own. And is quite peaceful. It has its own flag and its own Peshmarga army. The USA could set base here. Give the Kurds ownership of some of the oil fields on the Sunni border territory. And let the Kurds, unofficially, separate. The USA will, thus, get a foothold in the Middle East, and will get the oil it wanted.........

Turkey has threatened to invade any independent Iraqi Kurdistan. Since Turkey has an independent Kurdish movement in its area, which it has brutally suppressed. It does not want any independent Kurdish country, anywhere. However, the new Turkish govt. has approached its Kurds. And the USA could threaten Turkey with a boycot of its support in EU membership, if Turkey threatened Iraqi Kurdistan..........

My guess this is the strategy the USA will follow now in the area. I read that Israel already has its rep in Iraqi Kurdistan. The USA could eventually vacate Iraq and keep forces only in Kurdistan. And work out a deal for oil with a provincial Kurdish govt, through US and British oil companies, which are still waiting anxiously to sign lucrative oil deals in Iraq............The USA could also get the Kurds to recognize Israel........I think the Kurds maybe the only population in the Middle East, which are relatively pro-USA............

In the process, Iraq will be, for all practical purposes, three countries. With a civil war of sorts going on inside...............The biggest beneficiaries of this whole war will be Kurds and Iranis.............The USA has, basically, lost the Iraq War. Now it is trying to save the Iraqi peace.

My guess is Sunni Iraq will be the next long-term base and recruiting ground for Al-Qaeda, and will like much of Afghanistan remain unstable for the foreseeable future...............And Irani influence in the Middle East will grow significantly...............

I completely agree with you, America should not leave Iraq at this time.