Withdrawing from Iraq: A Disaster Waiting to Happen?

Mr. Hamid,
I would tend agree with perseverance mentality. As former girlfriend of mine saying, first don`t get in when not wanted, but if get in, then not withdraw premature, but stay in till job totally finished. Also, good idea to clean up after one own mess.

#31

Hamidm,

That’s a great idea for the sake of muslims and non-muslims’ future.

However, better alternative would have been for POM (Prisoners of Mullahs) states to cooperate with Bush by sending secular muslim troops to help Americans to set up a model democratic muslim state. All muslim states are virtually POM states.

Looks like USA is loosing its will power. Look for bigger Sunni-Shia rift in that area if we pull out. Now, I am not sure we should have gone in.

Sometimes it makes me sad and humble. If we look at the history, the creation of United States of America is probably the only event in history when the Colonialism had had its absolute victory. The colonial invasion of Europeans brought the local population to near extinction and the occupation was so successful that it did not need any support from the mother country any more.

Ironically, as USA will depart Middle East, as it will, defeated and humiliated, it will be the final nail in the coffin of Colonialism. The world will be free of this scourge on humanity. Does it mean that strong will stop exploiting the weak? I do not think so. Man will invent other ways to subjugate and steal from other. But colonialism will be no more.

Much like banker lady say - Early withdrawal mean stiff penalty.

Re: # 35

Truly… does the killing (with an intention of extinction) of native Sudanese by the Ay-rab Sudanese also make you sad and humble? USA might leave the region soon, but how are you going to get rid of the Wahabis? Hain? Incidentally, Syrians are next; so keep your seat belts fastened, as there is no need to be humble and sad as yet. Later.

#36
Kamasutra… The other factors such as the size of the deposit also count.

Mujtaba Hamid = hamidm2 ?????

Re: # 10

Hello Mr. Axe. You are funny. Ha ha funny. Notice small sentences? We don`t want your brain hurting. (Thinking out loud: But that would be self-defeating logic. After all, you can`t hurt something if doesn`t exist.) Well, never mind the brain reference then. Just keeping saying silly things. We find them amusing. And congratulations! for climbing up the evolutionary ladder. A few million years and you would be competing with amoeba. Luego!

Sin-celery,

Ray

#32 Thank you, I recently posted a i-log entry, ``Declarations of Independence``- since the corporate media (as well as the CIA funded media in many parts of the world- their budget is tens of billions, more than the GDP of many poor countries combined) blocks all dissent, we need to network to get these messages to as many as we can.

Re: # 38

..... there is no hamidm but hamidm, and hamidm2 is his successor ..........

mujtaba is taking hamidm`s name in vain ...............

a long term project ...........

..........regardless of how iraq turns out in the next year or so, things have changed for the better and everyone will be better off in the long run ............. a tyrant is gone, people have cell phones, the political logjam has been broken and other rogues like the ayatollas in tehran and asad in damascus are beginning to take notice ..........

.............now america has to make sure it stays in the region for as long as it takes the bedouins to get their act together ..........let`s not forget that we were engaged in central america for the better part of a century before countries like panama, guatemala, honduras and salvadore were cleansed of the communist pestilence ...... islamic fundamentalism is a much bigger threat and it could take much longer to eradicate this disease........... this is a problem for the entire civilized world and, now that the soviet threat is not there, should be nato`s main focus ............ why should the american tax payer foot the entire bill for providing security for the french and the japanese ? ...........

Re: # 39


>>>>We don`t want your brain hurting.<<<<

Rizvi Sahib.. Salutations, Y tu mama Tambien. And Thankyou for your concerns about the well being of my brain.

Next time wait for a few days after coming out of a taco before addressing me as you register only today and the first thing you do is to speak on some group’s behalf. Who are these “we” you are talking about? Until I know who these “we” are for sure, I ain’t going to do you, monkeybrains.

Salutations,

Kulharee

To paraphrase Clinton ``It`s the oil, stupid.`` Here`re a couple of paragraphs from an article by James Kunstler. You can read the entire essay at the URL below. mirmir

http://www.alternet.org/story/28630/

Can You Spell Withdrawal without O-I-L?
By James Howard Kunstler, kunstler.com
Posted on November 24, 2005, Printed on November 25, 2005

Neither Jack Murtha, the congressman who set the cable news networks afire this weekend, or Frank Rich, the lead dog on the New York Times Sunday op-ed page, mentioned the word ``oil`` once. I only mention it myself because it would be nice if we could have a coherent public discussion about staying or going in Iraq, and you can`t do that without talking about the oil of the Middle East.

But it does illustrate how deep the national denial runs and how foggy the debate gets. Even poor George W. Bush seems to think we`re in Iraq in order to turn the people into Jeffersonian democrats, so the only issue for his opponents is whether that is possible or not.

Maybe we ought to ask: what happens to the oil supply of the Crusader West when none of its representatives maintains a garrison in the Middle East? I use the term Crusader not to be cute, but to remind you how Europe and America are viewed by many people of the Middle East. They don`t like us. They have a longstanding beef with us. Some of them would like to punish us.

America is leading the current crusade because we are the society most desperately addicted to oil, and the Middle East is where two-thirds of the world`s remaining oil lies. The one thing that we apparently cannot bring ourselves to talk about is our addiction itself. The commuters whizzing around the (large) cities and metroplexes of this land probably got a big charge out of Congressman Murtha`s anti-war blast taking over drive-time radio last Friday. I wonder if they thought about how it might affect their commuting.

hamidm #42: ``..........regardless of how iraq turns out in the next year or so``

Hmm.........funny how time changes things. There used to be a time, when you were convinced that the Iraq invasion was the biggest success Bush would ever have........We debated it for quite a while.........Are you now wondering that it may not turn out the way you had predicted?.........

How about a novel idea. Perhaps its time for you and your Evangelical friends to give it a rest.............So other sane people can start making decisions............

``There has never been a just one, never an honorable one--on the part of the instigator of the war.

I can see a million years ahead, and this rule will never change in so many as half a dozen instances. The loud little handful--as usual--will shout for the war. The pulpit will--warily and cautiously--object--at first; the great, big, dull bulk of the nation will rub its sleepy eyes and try to make out why there should be a war, and will say, earnestly and indignantly, `It is unjust and dishonorable, and there is no necessity for it.`

Then the handful will shout louder.

A few fair men on the other side will argue and reason against the war with speech and pen, and at first will have a hearing and be applauded; but it will not last long; those others will outshout them, and presently the anti-war audiences will thin out and lose popularity. Before long you will see this curious thing: the speakers stoned from the platform, and free speech strangled by hordes of furious men who in their secret hearts are still at one with those stoned speakers--as earlier-- but do not dare to say so. And now the whole nation--pulpit and all-- will take up the war-cry, and shout itself hoarse, and mob any honest man who ventures to open his mouth; and presently such mouths will cease to open. Next the statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception.``

-- The Incomparable Mark Twain (1910)

As true today as it was then................

Here (from an essay posted on today`s Counterpunch) is a little of what Alexander Cockburn has to say:

By ALEXANDER COCKBURN

http://www.counterpunch.org/

``Would there actually be a power vacuum if US withdrew, followed by civil war, as is widely argued in the U.S.? The Sunni can`t take Baghdad. They can`t penetrate the main Kurdish and Shia areas. How exactly is the US military preventing a civil war at the moment? The refusal of the Shia to retaliate is the most important factor here and this is primarily the result of Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani standing firmly against it.

Now suppose Sistani calls for a withdrawal? Then the US and Britain will have little choice but to go, probably over an 18 month period. This very week, incidentally, a gathering in Cairo of Sunni, Shiite, and Kurdish leaders (under the auspices of the Arab League) called for a timetable for US withdrawal and also said that Iraq`s opposition had a ``legitimate right to resistance.`` The Sunni are not going to stop fighting while the occupation continues. The quid pro quo for the US leaving would presumably be a ceasefire by the Sunni and an end to suicide bombing attacks.

All those Democratic Party withdrawal dates are predicated on the idea that Iraqi army security forces will be built up and can take over. This scenario is as unrealistic as calls to ``internationalize`` the occupying force. All the evidence is that only an agreement on the departure of the US will lead to an end to the armed resistance, just as Murtha said. The idea that the Sunni taking part in the election somehow means a shift from military action is also baloney. It is clearly an `Armalite and ballot box` strategy.``

Re: # 46

Romair...

Thanks for this post from the visionary Mark Twain. For anyone interested, there`s a little more of Mark Twain`s commentary on this URL:

http://www.counterpunch.com/twain03192003.html