Kashmir United -- A Peek into a Luton Ghetto

re:#20 by Urstruly
People who are unable or unwilling to integrate into any society have always brought up this agenda of discrimination.
How come hindus in UK are not discriminated for their color and religion? How come study after study have shown that Indians (regardless of religious affiliation) have done better than Pakis, Bangladeshis?
I think the common denominator is the kind of Islam that both Pak and Bangladesh practice even in the countries they migrate to that keeps them from integrating.
Nobody asked u guys to migrate. You did it for economic reasons. Now, you have created new ghettoes everywhere and your newer generation of Pakis in UK, France etc are loathed, seggreated. It is time to ponder and see what went wrong rather than shifting blame on the host and labelling everything as discrimination.
Sridhar

mr. madani - dont worry about what the arjuns of india (or anyone else for that matter) think - they are not important.

the important thing is that we give up this habit of closing our eyes to reality. and the reality is that instead of taking advantage of the opportunities provided to them in UK (as so many other immigrants from around the world are doing), too many immigrants from pakistan are happy to bad mouth the same british people who let them into their country (or worse, as in case of omar sheikh and co). and in doing so, they are going to achieve nothing other than remain the underclass of UK while others move on ahead.

#78 i checked your link on ``aggragates``, and it refers to an article written by you that requires seeking your permission to access!! if you have any ``aggregates`` to present, i suggest you cut and paste them here.

and it is no earthshattering revelation that there are a few developed nations in a sea of underdevelopment. you merely add the term ``racially exclusive`` to the term ``developed nations``. Like i said you are playing around with words only - because you have no substance behind your assertions and (so far) have proved unwilling to acknowledge reality (of the omar sheikh kind that i pointed out to you and which you have been studiously ignoring).

Re: # 78 Mr.Arjun will be happy to read this and may even sponer such writing. Sorry writer. No need show advertise problems of community. This newspaper people think bad news is only news. sorry writer.

#76, I base my conclusions on REAL world data, world data does not mean ONE individual- it means aggregate data regarding public or global issues. You are again confusing it with personal trouble or personal issue of individuals. If you want real world data, read this article, http://www.geocities.com/globalghetto

When I tell you that there are only a handful of racially exclusive developed countries in a sea of underdevelopment, all backed by data, and social indicators, you don`t consider that real world data? Data sources are given on the top right hand corner of the site http://www.asadi.org

Good day.

amrita #74 yes indeed, everyone should be so lucky - having the option to live their life as they please (within the bounds of the law of course, and of that famous quote ``your freedom ends where my nose begins``).

masadi: kaalchakra makes a valid point in #75. one needs to look at ``real world data`` as he puts it, otherwise one is merely spinning things in thin air. i presented you with some very ``real world data`` in #55 the form of omar sheikh - you ignored that in your response. you have a scholarly writing style - i suggest you add a bit of scholarly substance to it as by focussing on reality, rather than ignoring it because it does not suit your pre-conceived notions.

masadi, tahmed32

Of course, both of you fully understand the issues involved: Individuals, groups, social structures, and their mutual interactions, all contribute their separate effects.

There really isn`t any basis to assume that any one of these multiple effects ALWAYS overwhelms all others. It`s best, IMO, to leave that as an empirical question - to be derived from real world data.

Re: # 70
well, the amish get a year off when they`re in their teens or something when they`re allowed to go `outisde` and experience all that the world has to offer. they can behave as un-amish as they wish. at the end of the year they can either return or stick to their new life. everyone should be that lucky.

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#55, if you are ignorant of the concept of social structure and public issues and are confusing them as personal trouble of character, I cannot help you. Personal responsibility does not take away the effects of public issues, as a result we see that for social aggregates, groups as a whole things do not change, even if they do for a few individuals here and there. Your solutions, are the same as Bush`s recommendation that abstinence will take care of the AIDS crisis. It will not, UNLESS we take note of the institutional structure of soceity. All such personal responsibility solutions are based on ignorance and we have seen their results- absolutely zero. They merely help to keep the status quo of oppression in place and not much else

#70 or amish dont have the mother ship, feeding them with ideology ;-)

ahmedzai #66 good to hear from you and hope all is well. talking of time capsules reminds me of the Amish in the US - they chose to live in their own time capsule brought over from the middle ages in europe: in ``Amish country`` (originally in pennsylvania, and now also spread to the midwest), the standard mode of transport is the horse and buggy, the men sport beards like maulvis and the women all wear black (sometimes blue when they seek to jazz it up) dresses, and they all live and work on fields and even speak their own language (a low german dialect i think), and produce lots of babies (and so their numbers are in fact increasing, not dying out as one would think!). All this because they think this will make God happy with them.

The basic difference between these people and our mirpur brothers and sisters is that the Amish dont carry a chip on their shoulders, and realize that they have chosen to live in this time capsule and dont go around blaming the ``elite`` or the ``system``.

Kaura #67 {``, and my friend were well aware of the muslim ways.......long story short, they wasted their smooth talking and money on wrong persons......``}

I agree. It`s dangerous to generalize, but I have found Indians, especially Hindus and Sikhs, especially in the US, to be far more honest than Pakis. Just an observation.

Said Sahib,
Finally got around to reading it and what a well-written and captivating article you wrote. I found it to be informative, depressing, and very timely. I had no idea about this aspect of Paki diaspora life in the UK. Thanks for enlightening us - you write very well and I look forward to more of your talented work.

``...........No one these Pakistani-British kids completed their high school, but very extremely presentable and smooth talker........``

That is one of the most deceitful yet formidable trait in a muslim`s arsenal. That is how they succeed and survive when the circumstances are stacked against them. That is how they are able to seduce non muslim girls and men too......sweet and smooth talking....before stabbing in the back........

In UP, I was presented many such business investments....one of them suggested that I should give him 100,000 right there.....after they treated us to a nice meal at the best restaurant......

I, and my friend were well aware of the muslim ways.......long story short, they wasted their smooth talking and money on wrong persons......