Kashmir United -- A Peek into a Luton Ghetto

Re: # 70
well, the amish get a year off when they`re in their teens or something when they`re allowed to go `outisde` and experience all that the world has to offer. they can behave as un-amish as they wish. at the end of the year they can either return or stick to their new life. everyone should be that lucky.

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#55, if you are ignorant of the concept of social structure and public issues and are confusing them as personal trouble of character, I cannot help you. Personal responsibility does not take away the effects of public issues, as a result we see that for social aggregates, groups as a whole things do not change, even if they do for a few individuals here and there. Your solutions, are the same as Bush`s recommendation that abstinence will take care of the AIDS crisis. It will not, UNLESS we take note of the institutional structure of soceity. All such personal responsibility solutions are based on ignorance and we have seen their results- absolutely zero. They merely help to keep the status quo of oppression in place and not much else

#70 or amish dont have the mother ship, feeding them with ideology ;-)

ahmedzai #66 good to hear from you and hope all is well. talking of time capsules reminds me of the Amish in the US - they chose to live in their own time capsule brought over from the middle ages in europe: in ``Amish country`` (originally in pennsylvania, and now also spread to the midwest), the standard mode of transport is the horse and buggy, the men sport beards like maulvis and the women all wear black (sometimes blue when they seek to jazz it up) dresses, and they all live and work on fields and even speak their own language (a low german dialect i think), and produce lots of babies (and so their numbers are in fact increasing, not dying out as one would think!). All this because they think this will make God happy with them.

The basic difference between these people and our mirpur brothers and sisters is that the Amish dont carry a chip on their shoulders, and realize that they have chosen to live in this time capsule and dont go around blaming the ``elite`` or the ``system``.

Kaura #67 {``, and my friend were well aware of the muslim ways.......long story short, they wasted their smooth talking and money on wrong persons......``}

I agree. It`s dangerous to generalize, but I have found Indians, especially Hindus and Sikhs, especially in the US, to be far more honest than Pakis. Just an observation.

Said Sahib,
Finally got around to reading it and what a well-written and captivating article you wrote. I found it to be informative, depressing, and very timely. I had no idea about this aspect of Paki diaspora life in the UK. Thanks for enlightening us - you write very well and I look forward to more of your talented work.

``...........No one these Pakistani-British kids completed their high school, but very extremely presentable and smooth talker........``

That is one of the most deceitful yet formidable trait in a muslim`s arsenal. That is how they succeed and survive when the circumstances are stacked against them. That is how they are able to seduce non muslim girls and men too......sweet and smooth talking....before stabbing in the back........

In UP, I was presented many such business investments....one of them suggested that I should give him 100,000 right there.....after they treated us to a nice meal at the best restaurant......

I, and my friend were well aware of the muslim ways.......long story short, they wasted their smooth talking and money on wrong persons......

Tahmed:

Re: # 62

I agree with you on the plight of Pakistanis brought about by ourselves.

I remember reading a very nice article by a British writer in Khaleej Times magazine. She had traveled throughout European countries and Asian subcontinent and had a very dissecting view of the situation. According to her, Pakistanis and Bangla Deshy youths are living a miserable life in Europe, and especially Britain, because of their parents. The parents migrated to these countries in the 50s and 60s and are frozen in that time capsule. According to her, the parent generation does not realize that the societies they came from have developed and are no longer frozen in the 60s.

Therefore, when I visited UK last year, I found that my cousins were actually prohibiting their children from going to a rock concerts. I told them that was totally unwarranted, because back in Pakistan, girls and boys of their (my cousin’s) children ages attend musical concerts and eat at American franchise outlets.

‘But that is haram’, came the reply.

Pakistanis need to be a bit more confident of ourselves. We need to go out, meet natives and intermingle with them a bit more on their turf. These days, being a Muslim is actually to our advantage in introducing to the natives. They want to know us much more than the other way round.

#57 by faisaluno on December 7, 2005 6:28am PT


also the onus of integrating immigrants falls on to the majority communnity


Right...Unless the brits make sure palestine, Indian Kashmir, Iraq and Afghanistan are liberated, a particular minority will continue to blow itself up in subways...

further on #62: that should be my post #55, not #45 referred to in my post below.

aslam: the language here (``infesting``, ``virus`` etc.) indicates a disgust with the ``pakis`` in luton - and thus takes away from the objectivity of the article. And (having never heard luton before this article, let alone been there), i will accept what you say about the population.

nevertheless, the article does provide insights that are ignored by too many pakistanis - e.g., notably the ``blame game`` that I refer to in my post #45 below. Thus (to use the example of Omar Sheikh there), UK in fact provided Sheikh with opportunities (notably admission to a top notch university) that he would almost certainly not have received if his father had not migrated to UK (in Pakistan, he would have probably grown up to be a tailor master like his father, making false promises to begum sahibs to deliver their shalwar kameez). One can either ignore this and continue the ``blame game`` of unfairly blaming UK for not providing opportunities. Or one can try to find an explanation in what is written in the article that I quoted earlier: ``Religion was forced upon them like a spoonful of horrible medicine. They swallowed it and were now intoxicated with it. The thought of going against the will of their parents never occurred to them because it was a forbidden thought. Almost like a thought crime, almost... Orwellesque. ``

Thus, while acknowledging the biases and incorrect generalizations apparent in this article, I would be interested in what you think of the ``Omar Sheikh Syndrome`` and how well the underlying reasons are provided by the above quote on ``religious intoxication`` combined with the ``blame game`` .

tahmed

``Turkish`s brother Bobby picked me up and we headed for Luton, an experience I will never forget. They were everywhere. Infesting the city. They had taken over like a virus. Pakis had conquered Luton. Downtown Luton could be easily mistaken for Kotli or Mirpur or even Muzzafarabad.``

how can pakistanis who are less than 10% of luton`s population take over, think about it.
i visit luton often you hardly see any pakistanis in downtown until you go into their specific enclave.

aslam and theo, please post your views.. abigail has promised hers. i checked out some images of Luton, and they looked just fine.

aslam: i dont see anything ``fake`` in this article. Does it provide a comprehensive view of the situation - of course not. But then, even Einstein himself struggled to come up with a comprehensive Theory of Everything and failed.

#56 by TheoVanGogh
thanks for those statistics.

i was the first one to point out this guy is fake, i don`t think has set foot in luton either.

one thing i am amazed with is how gulliable the chowk crowd is, they will believe anything.