Kashmir United -- A Peek into a Luton Ghetto

#45, care to show me what`s ``idiotic`` in my post. If not, spare me your narrow minded provincialism.

#46 you said and I quote ``In Luton’s case, I believe the problem is the elders’ fear of living in an alien environment, their inability to adapt, their stubborn clinging to their past, their using religion as an escape and an excuse to make them feel better and shoving it down their children’s throats to satisfy their psychological needs are the culprit. It’s pure psychology that drives them, and their children are the victims. It’s a vicious cycle. ``

This is exactly what it is not. You are confusing a public issue with personal trouble of individual character, sort of a ``culture of poverty`` type of argument. Take the example of marriage: Inside a marital relationship, personal problems might exist between the couple which may lead to divorce, but when almost half of all marriages attempted end in divorce in a society, it has to do with the social institution of marriage and family, how it is changing and how other institutions are affecting or causing such change, in short it is a issue involving social structure.

Similarly the case with the ghetto is that regardless of individual character, for the vast majority there will be no escape simply because the structure created therein by the external society keeps them there. For public/social issues, individual solutions don`t work, we need a change in the social structure and that will not happen until the structure that perpetuates racism exists. Read #43 for fuller discription.

masadi: you sound like an idiot. you should fit right in here on chowk. :-)

Very well written

Institutionalized racism, and the resulting social exclusion leads to an ``oppositional`` social structure for the oppressed. In this case the Pakistanis in the UK in the US case the African Americans, in the France case, the Arabs; these structures, once created perpetuate themselves. The real blame lies not with the individuals who suffer the effects but on the powers that be, the elite whose arrangements, the economic and political institutions help maintain these structures and the resulting exclusion.

Expand this to a larger level and we see why there are a few, almost totally racially exclusive-as far as majority population goes- developed countries (before Japan entered the group recently, and modern Japan is a US satellite, they were totally white majority countries) within a sea of underdevelopment. This arrangement is kept in place by the US elite, who dominate the world system; racial oppression is an important tool in their world-view. You cannot blame religion or culture for the suffering of the ghetto dwellers either, for regardless of what religion they believe in or what culture they live by, the social status of the aggregates (not talking about individuals here) perpetuates generation after generation, and their condition regardless of who they are stays the same. The only thing that can fix these conditions is altering the social structure, but doing that will cut the exclusive privilage of the US elite so they do their utmost to keep the superior subordinate relationship going generation after generation. Human suffering, lost opportunities, shattered hopes and wasted talent is of no consequence to them- what matters is power and wealth. As recent empirical evidence of that look at what they did with Iraq, one of the most well developed countries of the middle east in the 1970s, now little different than a ghetto

Here is an article, http://www.geocities.com/globalghetto

#36 by Raw_Dust

well, the pakistani 1-st gen actually did OK in good-ol UK running their fish-n-chips shops, or working in the mills. the article is about 2-nd gen guys. the schools in the US kind of enforce americanism (citizenship) from hot-dogs in the cafeteria to baseball to a heavy OD of american history (for the book-minded).

also interesting is to exlore the contribution of the mother-ship. the political and other enviroment of the mother ship must have some influence since the older-gen is so stuck in the old-country.

mr. Said, I must say that I read your article with fascination and a smile. Your writing style is both honest and entertaining.
I live in Luton, and some of your observations are quite close to the bone! I see/hear a lot of british-asians complaining about being treated differently, but shunning strangers out with the vigour one would save for the nerd at school. During my shopping trips to the famous Bury Park (where I nearly always have some old man decide i`m his new best friend), I tend to see certain types of people............

.......although I doubt I have your wit, maybe I should write on a westerner`s view of british-asians! And also on Kashmiris in their natural environment.......

#32 by delhiwala
``Why is Chowk UP giving error message on connecting?``

Chowk UP has installed a chootiya filter. Sorry.

Urstruly:
Why in the first place, believing muslims should immigrate to Dar-ul-Harab? What is the Sharaee answer and what is the islamic ethic has to say about these young muslim workers coming in to earn and pay taxes to a system that is using that Ush`r/tax partially to run bombing campaigns and commit war crimes against hapless muslims around the globe?


What does that say about specifically You, how are you going to answer Allah mian and the dead victims of these bombs (funded by your tax-dollars) on the judgement day? You hoping these muslim men women and children will forgive you on that day?

jang:
it seems this freewheeling welfare system is just too open-ended for abuse. i mean if we discount the african american situation (which is totally unique and separate from fobs) out of the picture for a second, then all new immigrants regardless of their religion do prosper with time in usa. pakistanis without higher education background are successfully running gas stations and further expanding just like turks and greeks are into diner businesses. (purely from observation).

is there a pakistani ghetto or algerian ghetto etc. within usa? i dont think so.

zarrar sahib:
good article although the tone got condescending at points and could have been done away with.

the english sarkar have recognized the issue and have started applying amrikan solution. now they insist on passing a citizenship exam like the one you take in the US..so soon you will have to know about Sir Arthur and not just Sallauddin.

Re: # 34 Jang

The program would work much better if along with immigrants, those who are already citizens are tested on what they know about Sallauddin.

Why is Chowk UP giving error message on connecting?

It’s as disturbing as it is fascinating...to read about your compatriots...a world I have not known nor probably would ever know. It’s a script for a Hollywood movie.

This article should be made available to the press in England. It’s a must read for the England’s policy makers.

Thank you, Zarrar, for a good read.

#23 by Urstruly on December 6, 2005 11:52am PT


the fact that the vast majority of the rioters, all the subway bombers, the people who blew up the madrid trains, people who were arrested for terrorism in the UK and the dude who killed theo van ghogh were all from the religion of peace isn`t relevant...


Right...

Dutch terrorism trial opens in confusion as witness stays silent

The trial of 14 Muslim men accused of plotting to murder Dutch politicians began in confusion, when the first witness refused to testify - or even give her name.

They were heard speaking in tapped telephone conversations about slaying non-believers like sacrificial lambs. Several of them trained in Pakistan to carry out armed attacks, prosecutors said.

Re: # 27

You make a very compelling case. I think Muslims should be discriminated because of their religion.

strangley, i think of the movie full monty