Kashmir United -- A Peek into a Luton Ghetto

I live just half an hr drive away from Luton...have visited the town only once.Had heard that there are lot of Pakistanis in Luton, but was not aware of what the writer has depicted. There seems to be fair amount of imagination involved and some `negative` aspects seem to have got exaggerated.

The welfare system is reinforcing the laziness in lot of people in UK,majority of whom are locals.It looks like a defence mechanism against internal threats to the socio-political/economical system,which is bound to crumble,because the working middle class is quite sore about it and UK govt. has already started looking for ways of cutting down the expences on welfare benefits.

But a very well written article;congrats!!

Yo!!!! you ``newly liberated `` low hangin indie.All this paki and kashmiri bashing isn`t going to make you apple of Yank`s eyes.Earth hasn`t produced greater ``chamchas`` (``ball lickers`` is the right slang) than you miserable indians ``the nouveau riche`` of South Asia.We Pakis are much much better when it comes to ``intellectual brilliance`` and ``aesthetics``.Have you forgotten your own Chandni chowks, Mumbai,calcutta ghettos or Chaar Minaars.
Wherever their is this majority vs minority or ethnic clashes ``natural alliances`` are born as a result coz people feel their identities or cultures and sometimes their dignities threatned.Examples are this ``muslim brotherhoods`` among European immigrants(though they are from different backgrounds like arabs,afroasians and brownies like Indo-pak), the so called Desi cultures or High caste, Low caste hocus pocus in India.
Pheewwwww!!!!!! Difficult job this ``Fire fighting``

Word of the day ``Hobson`s choice``.No compromise on standards.

Adieu

I think authour comes from `wanabe elite class of Pakistan` , who does think within a box and thinks words like `Paki` , `Villagers` etc.. make him cool ..
I come to England when I was 5 , my parents belongs to Dadyal , Azad Kashmir , Pakistan .

I hate when people starts generalize , Zarar wrote
`Laziness is inbred in Pakistanis` , although I think
we ( Pakistanis , Asians ) are one of the most hard working
people ( obviously , rich and elite in Pakistan and everywhere
can be easy but middle class and poor classes can not afford to
be) .
The impression , I am getting that if someone who wears a
shalwar kameez or kurta is backward and living in a stone age
while a person wearing wearing a suit is civilized and modern
( obviously , Karaar and like minded brothers, are confused and
ashamed of there own culture and religion ; people who are too impressed
with `gorays` )
Government Walfare Assumption ,
Karrar wrote `It was normal for Pakis to be on welfare` , could you
prove it ? I don`t know if authour knows how benefir system works ?
there`s income support, child benefits, dss, state pension ; we in
the family owns couple of super markets ( yes dukan walas to you ,
not a noble proffesion to you Karachi,Lahoire,Islamabad Elite Class )
what I had seen is English people are on benefits and not many Asians ,
Pakistanis . The old ( people who are 6o and above ) automatically gets
state pension ( which is not a benefit ) , the young ( very few in numbers )
get income support which is less then 3o pounds a week . Bottomline is
English people ( bigger percentage of Egnlish people ) are on benefits
then Asians ( specially Pakistanis , I only represents Pakistani British ) .
I agree that lot of Pakistani youths are involved in drugs and street crimes,
( best example is of Alum Rock , Birmingham ) and this is because of there parents
which are uneducated but things are getting better . Outside Pakistan and espcially in
a non-Islamic country parents encourages ( and not force ) children to read Quran and
offer prayers which makes them a good human beings ( at most occasions , there are always
good and bad people everywhere ) .
Somehow , authour thinks Karachi, Islamabad, Multan and Lahore is Pakistan and he thinks
everyone had been as lucky as him ( economically and socially ) but things are different
he has to accept that Urban Pakistan represents a few percentage of Pakistani whereas ,
Rural Pakistan is where majority of Pakistani lives.
Our parents migrated abroad ( UK ) because of economical reasons and yes they may look
uncultured to people from Karachi or Islamabad but they contribute more to Pakistan and
Azad Kashmir then many elite Pakistanis living in Pakistan . And once they die , they want to
be buried in Pakistan because they love there land .
a message to my brother who wrote this article , ` brother, don`t think inside a box widen your
thinking and yes, stop saying ` Paki ` its not cool `

#20 by Urstruly on December 6, 2005 11:39am PT


What caused this change in thinking is the recent ghetto riots in France, Germany, Belgium and Holland. England


What caused muslims to riot in France, kill Theo Van Ghogh in Holland, blow up subways in England etc etc...

Re: # 21

I knew it that Lalloo in the box will pop his head first. But connecting subway bombings and theo thing to riots in France is just pure hogwash. Ironically, a considerable number of rioters in France are Christians and not only that Catholics. That is the reason it gave the most trigger happy American propagandists an itch that they couldn`t attach religion to these riots as much as they wanted to.

Had I read this article a month ago I would have really enjoyed it but now I see it as the reflection of human tragedy. What caused this change in thinking is the recent ghetto riots in France, Germany, Belgium and Holland. England has also a long history of race riots. It has become abundantly clear from French episode that cause for this dilapedated of colored people in general and Muslims in particular is because of the institutionized discrimination, systematic aparthied, and inherent prejudice of the indigenous population. The riots were a reflection of the race riots of America between an apartied black community and a dominant white population, that started in 1917 and still continue until very recently. A couple of years ago Cincinnati was put under Martial Law.

It is a great injustice to even suggest that the cause for the dilapidated state of colored people in Europe is because of the inferior genetic make up of those people, or religion, or race, or color of those people. That forms the very basis of the institutionization of the dicrimination. It is the alibi of the dominant people, hiding behind which they try to get away.

Re: # 20
urstruly - i dont believe the author is making the point that ``the cause for the dilapidated state of colored people in Europe is because of the inferior genetic make up of those people, or religion, or race, or color of those people``.

He is instead saying that these young men make the choices that they make because of their nurture not their nature.

Re: # 30 amrita

Yes and I am making the case that I would have agreed with author (or you) hadn`t the recent riots in France and other countries not taken place. It has raised the awareness as to why the ghettos even exist in the first place.

Re: # 33
i dont dispute the fact that racism exists and that one of the reasons given for it is racial inferiority but i dont see why you would challenge the point the author is making based on that.

Re: # 30

amrita

``these young men make the choices that they make because of their nurture not their nature.``

Ditto. But the question is, how is it remedied?

Re: # 31
godot - when its a case of nurture, its something that needs to be remedied primarily from within. zarrar says that in the person of Turkish he sees a possible solution... young men who might make different choices because they have had the good fortune to see another side to the world than one that was presented to them in childhood. the struggle is to bring that world to the places where they live rather than hope that they can go out or be privileged enuff to go out and discover it for themselves.

and thats where the society in general comes in - and thats the sticking point isnt it? coz what do we mean when we say society? the people in the pub who left when they saw the group of `pakis` [in the epithet sense of it] or the govt which can possibly pass any number of laws about any number of things affecting individual choices but in the end is limited in its ability to actually effect changes in attitude across a spectrum? do we mean the parents who are operating out a fear that the desire to earn a good living is slowly robbing them of their identity and leaving their children as a species of cultural half breeds or do we mean the kids themselves who in spite of their possible frustration at the quality of their life, would still take unkindly to one of their number who did anything different or rebelled? i suppose that the answer would lie somewhere in between but frankly, i dont know.

i`m an indian hindu girl from a privileged background - i can suppose plenty but thats really about it. i`d be interested to know what you think.

Re: # 38

amrita

As you realize, it is a very difficult question to answer: how to remedy the ghetto-ness of those who are stuck in it?

From within is only exception-based. If you noticed, Turkish’s parents were wealthy enough to send their son to America. Not everyone is that privileged in a ghetto. Also, the realization along with a will to change has to be there as well. How many of them are like that in a ghetto?

From society is quite difficult. Individuals like you and I are too busy with our own privileged lives to make an attempt to change the mentality of a huge group. It’s a Herculean task. Their ``own`` society apparently is not capable or they wouldn’t be stuck in the rut for so long and for so many generations.

From the government is probably the only workable option. Government has to implement policies that encourage and train the youngsters for a better life. Shedding and overcoming inherent biases, prejudices, and insecurities have to be a major part of that policy.

In Luton’s case, I believe the problem is the elders’ fear of living in an alien environment, their inability to adapt, their stubborn clinging to their past, their using religion as an escape and an excuse to make them feel better and shoving it down their children’s throats to satisfy their psychological needs are the culprit. It’s pure psychology that drives them, and their children are the victims. It’s a vicious cycle.

Ghettoes exist everywhere and in all societies that I know of (they perhaps don’t exist in a very homogenous society such as Norway or Finland.) The problem is how to get them out of it. Realization is exception-based. Government can do so much. You and I can only nod our heads in sadness. And the world moves on.

Re: # 46

Godot, Saad, and abskii:

Luton brought back some memories for me. A little over 33 years ago, I spent a year in Luton, after finishing my education at University of Birmingham. I worked for a eletronic instrumentation company called Kent Instruments Limited on Biscot Road. I lived in Wensleydale area. At that time, Luton was still predominantly white, although Pakistani workers had begun to arrive to work at the Vauxhall (GM) plant. My manager was a very fine English gentleman, and his wife was a teacher in the school. They had invited me over for a dinner to their home, and were discussing about the school performance. His wife was quite surprised that the academic performance of Asian-Indian kids was better than the academic performance of the Asian-Pakistani kids. Apparently at that time, the school district had conducted study that concluded that home environment was lot to do. It was not the religion, as the study found both groups were equally religious in their own way, but among Asian-Indian kids, the emphasis to study came from their mothers more than their father. Their kids generation or even subsequent generation is what Zarr Said is talking about.

According to this teacher-wife about 33 years ago, I distinctly recall that she had predicted that the biggest escape velocity from Ghetto comes from empowerment thrugh education or through ability go out in the mainstream (I guess in case of African Americans Football and Basket Ball), and in the absence of which Pakistanit kids will form ghettos, whereas Indian kids will escape.

A couple of years ago, a friend of mine who is a busy doctor in Florida was approached by a couple these Pakistani-British kids from Luton. One of them was a very fast talker and was able to convince many doctors in America on investment opporunity, including this friend of mine, and raised about $3M to finance the purchase of vintage french wines for their sale in the U.S. This friend asked me at that time, if I would like to invest, I politely told her that I do not invest in something I cannot get involved, and in fact I invest my time first and then money later. No one these Pakistani-British kids completed their high school, but very extremely presentable and smooth talker. These kids were from Luton, and she had even flown to Luton to check them and their project out. Last night she called me to tell me that nothing of the project materialized, the complaint by the ``conned`` doctors to the FBI resulted in the arrest of these kids from Luton, and their Irish partner by the Scotland yard. I had asked her, why did she invest money so blindly, she and some of her other doctor investors told me that they saw that these kids were smart, like their own kids, and had a dream to succeed, and they were able to pursuade doctors to invest. According to her, sadly they did not know how to realize their dreams, and now have ended up being criminals. As an aside, she mentioned that these kids were very passionate about liberating Kashmir, and used to visit Pakistan and PoK. This doctor friend of mine is an Indian.

Anil

#15 aslam, pls do a post from your impressions, thanks.
any southhall stories?

in US, demographic info is generally found for school districs like graduation-dropout rates, college rates, what kind of colleges etc, which gives some picture. Do UK councils publish such info?

British Pakistanis bring fish and chips to Kashmir`s `Beverly Hills`
By Isambard Wilkinson in Mirpur
(Filed: 05/12/2005)

A construction boom fuelled by money from Britain is transforming what was once one of Pakistan`s poorest towns into its ``Beverly Hills``.

The skyline of Mirpur, in Pakistani-controlled Kashmir, once boasted nothing more than two-storey brick houses and mud huts.


Mirpur: ‘The boom has changed the face of the town’
All that has changed since British Pakistanis returned to invest money earned in the UK in their ancestral town. Now soaring doric columns jostle with gilded porticos at the entrances of huge houses.

The result is the region`s most spectacular mix of architectural styles since the British Raj introduced ``disappointed gothic`` to the subcontinent.

And, in a striking example of reverse cultural influence, returnees are bringing such British institutions as greyhound racing and fish and chips back to Mirpur with them.

``The United Kingdom has greatly helped improve our economy``, said Mohamed Chaudhry Saeed, the British honorary consul in Mirpur and the owner of three car showrooms.

Noor Hussein spent 25 years in Birmingham working as a taxi-driver but is now a Mirpur estate agent.

``The boom has changed the face of the town,`` he said. ``People are building bigger and more decorous houses. It is a sort of status symbol. Property prices have gone up like in London. But compared to terrace houses over there, the houses here are luxurious.``

Mirpuris form about 70 per cent of the British Pakistani population of 800,000.

When David Blunkett, the former home secretary, lifted visa restrictions last year he made the announcement in Mirpur, the home town of the Labour peer Lord Ahmed.

Migration to Britain from this poverty-stricken area, known as ``Little England``, began in the 1880s when Mirpuris worked as stokers on British merchant ships.

Another wave of migrants from the district headed to England when the nearby Mangla dam was constructed in 1969. The project displaced 100,000 people and 5,000 took up a government offer to move to Britain.

In the 1980s remittance wages began to flow into Mirpur, starting an explosion in demand for electric household goods such as televisions and fridges.

Today`s housing boom is accompanied by an increase in internet cafes, satellite dishes, microwaves, car showrooms and shopping malls.

At a rough-hewn dog-racing track, Mohamed Tabariq, 54, said he moved from the area to Preston when he was 15. He owns a take-away restaurant and two hotels in Lancashire but has moved back to Pakistan.

``It`s an easy life here, no stress,`` he said. ``We have built up a farm on 20 acres and I have imported these greyhounds from England to keep me busy``.

On one Mirpur boulevard stands Qureshi Palace, a garish medley of towers, tiles and columns. Its owners seldom visit. Like most of the ostentatious houses, it is used mostly for only three months of the year when British Pakistanis take extended holidays.

Nevertheless, according to the World Bank, the remittances from Britain have not filtered down to local farmers and the young will continue to migrate to the UK.

``In the beginning people had the idea that they would earn money in the UK and then retire here,`` said Mr Saeed. ``However, people are staying there now because of pensions schemes and the health service.

``The next generation, which has less attachment to Mirpur, does not want to come back as their social lives are now different to ours.``

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/12/05/wpak05.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/12/05/ixworld.html

Brilliant.