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Khamosh Pani Crosses the Border Noisily
How come muslim population in India increases from 8% in 1950 to the present 16% while the hindu+sikh population in Pakistan decrease from 15% in 1950 to the present 1% ?
The film Khamosh Pani offers an invaluable insight into the mystery behind the decline of hindu+sikh population in Pakistan....and Mr.Yousuf Saeed wants this very relevant , important and critically acclaimed movie to be banned.
Posted by
saint
Dec 17, 2004 09:12 pm
If `communal disharmony is the hallmark of the Indian society` as HP says , then how come there is no mass migration of muslims out of India to the Land Of The Pure ?How come muslim population in India increases from 8% in 1950 to the present 16% while the hindu+sikh population in Pakistan decrease from 15% in 1950 to the present 1% ?
The film Khamosh Pani offers an invaluable insight into the mystery behind the decline of hindu+sikh population in Pakistan....and Mr.Yousuf Saeed wants this very relevant , important and critically acclaimed movie to be banned.
Khamosh Pani Crosses the Border Noisily
So a Pakistani journalist agrees that Uncle Veeru was telling the truth about Pakistan....
India rising
Kamran Shafi
(The writer is a retired army officer and a freelance columnist)
My second trip to India in three years ended last Sunday when I returned through the Wagah border in the company of some friends. We had spent ten pleasant most days in Delhi. Traveling on the comfortable Shatabdi Express train we also took a day trip to Jaipur, where we visited the famous Amer (popularly called Amber) Fort and lunched at the quite stunning Rambagh Palace Hotel.
But first, general impressions, and Delhi, and how it has become so completely different from the Pakistan of today. The moment you cross the border you know that you are in a foreign country despite the fact that the same half-clad farmer carrying the same kahi (hoe) can be seen watering his wheat crop exactly like his counterpart in Pakistani Punjab. The same plastic bags that fly about and blight our villages and towns fly about and blight Indian villages and towns too. The same putrid and smelly water ponds with buffaloes wallowing in them are seen in Chichokimallian, Pakistan as they are in Attari, India.
So what is the glaring difference that jumps right at you and tells you as nothing else could, that you are in a vastly different country? The moment you enter a town, you see women and girls moving about as freely as men. Young women walk in the bazaars with confidence; ride bicycles and motor scooters; everyone goes about their business without even noticing that there are women around too! You get the impression, most of all, that despite so many similarities, including the same mad traffic, you are in a more civilised country where women do not scurry about like frightened rabbits, eyes cast down for fear of being pilloried as they are in this The Land of the Pure. And this, one might add, is an aspect of life particularly hurtful to people of my generation who grew into college life in the 60`s, when girls used to cycle to college in Lahore and Karachi, Rawalpindi and even Peshawar, without being looked at lasciviously, leave alone molested by words, taunts and vulgar innuendo.
Back in Delhi, our arrival at the railway station had the same feel as at any large Pakistani train station, only the sheer numbers were greater: crowds milling about, jostling, forcing their way by elbowing others aside, just like in Pakistan. What stood out in Delhi was the complete absence of loud verbal fights and abuse. Is this because the presence of women gentrifies men who can otherwise be so boorish? In contrast, one heard the most vulgar abuse being bandied about by two loutish taxi drivers at the Daewoo Bus Station in Lahore, as one arrived there from Wagah for onward travel to Rawalpindi.
You should see today`s Delhi! It is a thriving city, hotels full to brimming with foreigners -- tourists, investors, importers, journalists; its shops have undergone a sea change in the three years that I was there last, now looking (and feeling) like shops in any of the great capitals of the world. Shopkeepers and sales people are exceedingly polite, greeting you as you enter, thanking you even if you leave without making a purchase. The quality of goods is excellent, and the prices cheaper than back home, even after discounting the fact that the Indian rupee is now almost 25 per cent stronger than ours.
Talking of foreign businessmen in India, India`s foreign exchange reserves shot by three billion US dollars last month - ALL of it in Foreign Direct Investment - to 135 Billion US Dollars. Indeed, there were at least six high profile Italian textiles buyers in our train carriage, traveling to Amritsar for negotiations with Indian counterparts. In contrast, one wonders about the last time that Faisalabad, the center of Pakistani textiles, last saw a foreigner...
You should go see Delhi`s pulsating nightlife. Go to one of the many smart bars and restaurants that have recently opened, say, Olive, in an area called `Qutb`. That`s right, the name derives from the nearby Qutb Minar. The ambience is something to behold, its clientele made up of 65 per cent locals and 45 per cent foreigners, all having the time of their lives wining and dining on the finest the world has to offer.
While on the subject of recreation, Jaipur alone has five five-star hotels, all solidly booked months in advance. As noted in this same space some time back, `five-star` hotels in this country make India`s hotels of equal ranking appear at least seven-star. And they are expensive, VERY expensive. Still, the Rambagh has no rooms on offer until December 2005! We saw one bus-load of well heeled tourists leave and another arrive in the one hour that we were there.
India may not be `shining` as the BJP found to its cost, but it is certainly rising with every passing day. And where are we? Wallowing in self-pity; angry with the world; twisted in mind and spirit, looking for scapegoats for our own national failings. We`ve got to pull our fingers out if we are to get anywhere at all, and fast. We`ve missed the past few boats, could we please catch the next one that might happen along?
Back in Islamabad the Beautiful, an incident that may well not have happened in India -- on my way to my bank in the diplomatic enclave, I got caught at the check post at the enclave`s fenced and gated entrance. There were three vehicles ahead of me, at least ten behind, all waiting for the stream of mainly diplomatic cars from the opposite side to get by. A sleek Daimler Sovereign flying the Union Jack and carrying His Excellency the High Commissioner for Britain jumped the queue, trying to nose in front in typical taxi-driver style.
The stream of traffic from the other side was so solid that he could not get through and came to a halt directly to my right, blocking the road further. I saw red and began to blow my horn in the internationally recognised sign of annoyance. There was no reaction from the Daimler, save a casual glance from the chap sitting in the front with the driver. The Daimler then began to inch forward until His Excellency himself came alongside me. I continued to blow the horn, and said loudly ``Get back in line``. His Excellency studiously looked out the right rear window of his car, ignoring me, somebody whose space his car had violated. He quite rudely did not apologise as he jolly well should have done, but apparently it would have been below his station to apologise to a Pakistani nobody in an eighteen-year old little rattle-trap.
But then, why should he even think of doing the right thing by a common citizen, when he knows us for the grovellers we are? As a young diplomat posted here many years ago he knows how cheaply we sell ourselves - a drink now and then please, Sirji! More strength to you, Your Majesty; go break some more rules while you are here. Walk all over us for all you are worth, for there are few (who are more shameless than us.)
Posted by
saint
Dec 17, 2004 09:12 pm
There are a lot of puki losers on this site who questioned Uncle Veeru`s credibility...Guess what , a Pakistani joutnalist recently visited India and his story is a strong corroboration of Uncle V`s account of Pakistan...Perhaps Mr.Yousuf Saeed wants the below article to be banned as well , as it depicts a none-too-flaterring image of his beloved Land Of The Pure....So a Pakistani journalist agrees that Uncle Veeru was telling the truth about Pakistan....
India rising
Kamran Shafi
(The writer is a retired army officer and a freelance columnist)
My second trip to India in three years ended last Sunday when I returned through the Wagah border in the company of some friends. We had spent ten pleasant most days in Delhi. Traveling on the comfortable Shatabdi Express train we also took a day trip to Jaipur, where we visited the famous Amer (popularly called Amber) Fort and lunched at the quite stunning Rambagh Palace Hotel.
But first, general impressions, and Delhi, and how it has become so completely different from the Pakistan of today. The moment you cross the border you know that you are in a foreign country despite the fact that the same half-clad farmer carrying the same kahi (hoe) can be seen watering his wheat crop exactly like his counterpart in Pakistani Punjab. The same plastic bags that fly about and blight our villages and towns fly about and blight Indian villages and towns too. The same putrid and smelly water ponds with buffaloes wallowing in them are seen in Chichokimallian, Pakistan as they are in Attari, India.
So what is the glaring difference that jumps right at you and tells you as nothing else could, that you are in a vastly different country? The moment you enter a town, you see women and girls moving about as freely as men. Young women walk in the bazaars with confidence; ride bicycles and motor scooters; everyone goes about their business without even noticing that there are women around too! You get the impression, most of all, that despite so many similarities, including the same mad traffic, you are in a more civilised country where women do not scurry about like frightened rabbits, eyes cast down for fear of being pilloried as they are in this The Land of the Pure. And this, one might add, is an aspect of life particularly hurtful to people of my generation who grew into college life in the 60`s, when girls used to cycle to college in Lahore and Karachi, Rawalpindi and even Peshawar, without being looked at lasciviously, leave alone molested by words, taunts and vulgar innuendo.
Back in Delhi, our arrival at the railway station had the same feel as at any large Pakistani train station, only the sheer numbers were greater: crowds milling about, jostling, forcing their way by elbowing others aside, just like in Pakistan. What stood out in Delhi was the complete absence of loud verbal fights and abuse. Is this because the presence of women gentrifies men who can otherwise be so boorish? In contrast, one heard the most vulgar abuse being bandied about by two loutish taxi drivers at the Daewoo Bus Station in Lahore, as one arrived there from Wagah for onward travel to Rawalpindi.
You should see today`s Delhi! It is a thriving city, hotels full to brimming with foreigners -- tourists, investors, importers, journalists; its shops have undergone a sea change in the three years that I was there last, now looking (and feeling) like shops in any of the great capitals of the world. Shopkeepers and sales people are exceedingly polite, greeting you as you enter, thanking you even if you leave without making a purchase. The quality of goods is excellent, and the prices cheaper than back home, even after discounting the fact that the Indian rupee is now almost 25 per cent stronger than ours.
Talking of foreign businessmen in India, India`s foreign exchange reserves shot by three billion US dollars last month - ALL of it in Foreign Direct Investment - to 135 Billion US Dollars. Indeed, there were at least six high profile Italian textiles buyers in our train carriage, traveling to Amritsar for negotiations with Indian counterparts. In contrast, one wonders about the last time that Faisalabad, the center of Pakistani textiles, last saw a foreigner...
You should go see Delhi`s pulsating nightlife. Go to one of the many smart bars and restaurants that have recently opened, say, Olive, in an area called `Qutb`. That`s right, the name derives from the nearby Qutb Minar. The ambience is something to behold, its clientele made up of 65 per cent locals and 45 per cent foreigners, all having the time of their lives wining and dining on the finest the world has to offer.
While on the subject of recreation, Jaipur alone has five five-star hotels, all solidly booked months in advance. As noted in this same space some time back, `five-star` hotels in this country make India`s hotels of equal ranking appear at least seven-star. And they are expensive, VERY expensive. Still, the Rambagh has no rooms on offer until December 2005! We saw one bus-load of well heeled tourists leave and another arrive in the one hour that we were there.
India may not be `shining` as the BJP found to its cost, but it is certainly rising with every passing day. And where are we? Wallowing in self-pity; angry with the world; twisted in mind and spirit, looking for scapegoats for our own national failings. We`ve got to pull our fingers out if we are to get anywhere at all, and fast. We`ve missed the past few boats, could we please catch the next one that might happen along?
Back in Islamabad the Beautiful, an incident that may well not have happened in India -- on my way to my bank in the diplomatic enclave, I got caught at the check post at the enclave`s fenced and gated entrance. There were three vehicles ahead of me, at least ten behind, all waiting for the stream of mainly diplomatic cars from the opposite side to get by. A sleek Daimler Sovereign flying the Union Jack and carrying His Excellency the High Commissioner for Britain jumped the queue, trying to nose in front in typical taxi-driver style.
The stream of traffic from the other side was so solid that he could not get through and came to a halt directly to my right, blocking the road further. I saw red and began to blow my horn in the internationally recognised sign of annoyance. There was no reaction from the Daimler, save a casual glance from the chap sitting in the front with the driver. The Daimler then began to inch forward until His Excellency himself came alongside me. I continued to blow the horn, and said loudly ``Get back in line``. His Excellency studiously looked out the right rear window of his car, ignoring me, somebody whose space his car had violated. He quite rudely did not apologise as he jolly well should have done, but apparently it would have been below his station to apologise to a Pakistani nobody in an eighteen-year old little rattle-trap.
But then, why should he even think of doing the right thing by a common citizen, when he knows us for the grovellers we are? As a young diplomat posted here many years ago he knows how cheaply we sell ourselves - a drink now and then please, Sirji! More strength to you, Your Majesty; go break some more rules while you are here. Walk all over us for all you are worth, for there are few (who are more shameless than us.)
Proud to be a Pakistani?
It really is silly of you to take a vicarious delight in China`s achievements. You have to decide whether you are a Pakistani or a Chinese - China is streets ahead of India , no doubt about that....But the fact remains that India is streets ahead of Pakistan and the gap widens every year.
Understand this. You make a big deal of a prediction of 8% growth rate for Pakistan from year 2006 onwards. You are probably ignorant of the fact that Indian economy has been growing at a rate of 8% for the past 2 years...and although India has 7 times the population of Pakistan , India has 11 times Pak`s economy. So which ever way you look at it , the gap between India and Pakistan , (which didn`t amount to much only a few years ago) , is already quite huge and growing rapidly...
Posted by
saint
Dec 17, 2004 05:40 am
Dear Mr.taqat-e-parvez ,It really is silly of you to take a vicarious delight in China`s achievements. You have to decide whether you are a Pakistani or a Chinese - China is streets ahead of India , no doubt about that....But the fact remains that India is streets ahead of Pakistan and the gap widens every year.
Understand this. You make a big deal of a prediction of 8% growth rate for Pakistan from year 2006 onwards. You are probably ignorant of the fact that Indian economy has been growing at a rate of 8% for the past 2 years...and although India has 7 times the population of Pakistan , India has 11 times Pak`s economy. So which ever way you look at it , the gap between India and Pakistan , (which didn`t amount to much only a few years ago) , is already quite huge and growing rapidly...
Proud to be a Pakistani?
explain this to me. If India was so messed up and Pakistan was so great as you say , how come pathetic India outperforms Pakistan on every socio-economic paramter ..i.e., how come India has higher per capita , higher human development indices , much higher adult/female literacy , much lower concentration of poverty than Pakistan ???
Wake up and smell the coffee my friend.
Posted by
saint
Dec 16, 2004 07:37 pm
Dear taqat-e-pervez.....explain this to me. If India was so messed up and Pakistan was so great as you say , how come pathetic India outperforms Pakistan on every socio-economic paramter ..i.e., how come India has higher per capita , higher human development indices , much higher adult/female literacy , much lower concentration of poverty than Pakistan ???
Wake up and smell the coffee my friend.
Khamosh Pani Crosses the Border Noisily
Posted by
saint
Dec 16, 2004 07:37 pm
Folks please dont mind Salim. He is just a poor eunuch looking for acceptance and love on the net....And Omar jeeee has evidently provided him that....
Proud to be a Pakistani?
This coming from a man who in one of his many foolish incoherant ramblings claimed that Pakistan is at the forefront of software development....
Posted by
saint
Dec 15, 2004 07:56 pm
GuruJEE :``By all means go ahead and live in your own illusions of grandeur like all your countrymen``This coming from a man who in one of his many foolish incoherant ramblings claimed that Pakistan is at the forefront of software development....
Proud to be a Pakistani?
Add politicians , leftist terrorists (naxalites , `journalists` , `human rights activists` , academics , bleeding heart liberals , `peace` ativists etc.) , bureaucrats , government employees to the list...
Rest of the country as you said , is rotting.
Posted by
saint
Dec 12, 2004 09:25 pm
``Unfortunately, in India of today, the only people who seem to matter are the movie stars and the cricketers. ``Add politicians , leftist terrorists (naxalites , `journalists` , `human rights activists` , academics , bleeding heart liberals , `peace` ativists etc.) , bureaucrats , government employees to the list...
Rest of the country as you said , is rotting.
Proud to be a Pakistani?
Posted by
saint
Dec 10, 2004 07:12 am
anil...you obviously overestimate manto-ji.
Proud to be a Pakistani?
even your cousins across the border are better off than your people...
adult literacy for Indian muslims hovers around 60% (against a national average of 70%)
adult literacy for Pakistanis is a pathetic 52%. Female literacy is even worse.
Posted by
saint
Dec 9, 2004 09:19 pm
Zamir1 ,even your cousins across the border are better off than your people...
adult literacy for Indian muslims hovers around 60% (against a national average of 70%)
adult literacy for Pakistanis is a pathetic 52%. Female literacy is even worse.
Caste and the City
By the way , Dr.Ambedkar was a smart man..and a great patriot. When he announced his decision to convert to a religion other than hinduism along with his followers , he was wooed like crazy by both missionaries and mullahs.
But he chose a religion that is actually a part of hinduism..refined hindusim one might say - buddhism.... and in the process saved India from another partition....
Posted by
saint
Dec 9, 2004 06:00 pm
Jang , Dost-Mittar....any conversion to Islam in India happened in the days of the 800 odd year muslim rule. Post independence , many hindus - dalits basically - have converted to Buddhism and Christianity. Hardly a couple of thousand dalits in India have converted to Islam in the last 5 and a half decade...which is understandable given the fact that the primary motivation in changing one`s faith is financial in nature and Islam does not provide that. Infact muslims are India`s most backward community...even dalits are better off than them. By the way , Dr.Ambedkar was a smart man..and a great patriot. When he announced his decision to convert to a religion other than hinduism along with his followers , he was wooed like crazy by both missionaries and mullahs.
But he chose a religion that is actually a part of hinduism..refined hindusim one might say - buddhism.... and in the process saved India from another partition....
Proud to be a Pakistani?
Actually , India currently has forex reserves worth $130 billion....
Thats 10 times that of Pakistan`s. Remember India has 7 times Pak`s population. India also has an economy that is 11 time the size of Paksitan`s...
Also , as BBabu rightly pointed out , >> The primary factor behind the increase in Pakistani FOREX reserves is the temporary debt relief Pakistan obtained after 9-11. Pakistan did not have it any significant debt forgiven. What Pakistan got was a reduction in interest rates on the debt and waiver of interest for five years. India`s FOREX reserves are increasing due to increased exports of software, services and other products.
What good is the FOREX reserves if you cannot invest them in your infrastructure !!!
PS : I agree with everything the author has written. However a slight factual error. India`s forex reserves as I said are worth $130 billion....not $75 billion as the author says..
Posted by
saint
Dec 9, 2004 06:00 pm
Manto-ji says : ``BTW... a simple math would suggest that in order to match Pakistan`s forex Reserves, India would have to have 104 Billion Dollars.... since... its population is roughly 8 times the size of Pakistan, and Pakistan has 13-14 Billion Dollars in reserves....`` Actually , India currently has forex reserves worth $130 billion....
Thats 10 times that of Pakistan`s. Remember India has 7 times Pak`s population. India also has an economy that is 11 time the size of Paksitan`s...
Also , as BBabu rightly pointed out , >> The primary factor behind the increase in Pakistani FOREX reserves is the temporary debt relief Pakistan obtained after 9-11. Pakistan did not have it any significant debt forgiven. What Pakistan got was a reduction in interest rates on the debt and waiver of interest for five years. India`s FOREX reserves are increasing due to increased exports of software, services and other products.
What good is the FOREX reserves if you cannot invest them in your infrastructure !!!
PS : I agree with everything the author has written. However a slight factual error. India`s forex reserves as I said are worth $130 billion....not $75 billion as the author says..
Proud to be a Pakistani?
Further , you only betray your stupidity by making nonsensical comments about PPakistan apparently being at the forefront of software development (haha) and suggesting that westerners prefer Pakstanis to Indians because Pakistanis speak better english......HELLO!!!
Posted by
saint
Dec 9, 2004 10:04 am
Gurujee...what is the basis of your assertion that your Pakistan is a better country than India ? Facts state otherwise. Going by facts , India has the higher per capita , better human development indices , much better adult/female literacy , much less concentration of poverty.....indeed India outperforms Pakistan on every socio-economic parameter possible. India has a PPP GDP of almost $3 trillion and is the 2nd fastest growing economy in the world. There are 40 self made entrepreneurs in India worth more than 500$ million - 9 of them being $ billionaires. Not a single Pakistani even comes close to the $500 million mark...Further , you only betray your stupidity by making nonsensical comments about PPakistan apparently being at the forefront of software development (haha) and suggesting that westerners prefer Pakstanis to Indians because Pakistanis speak better english......HELLO!!!
Caste and the City
Why else do you think these pakistani shed tears for the dalit cause ? Stuff of their dreams...get the 200 million dalits to leave hinduism and convert to Islam...and booooom...before you know , the ummah will rule India like it did for 800 years.....
Posted by
saint
Dec 9, 2004 10:04 am
dost-mittar ...Why else do you think these pakistani shed tears for the dalit cause ? Stuff of their dreams...get the 200 million dalits to leave hinduism and convert to Islam...and booooom...before you know , the ummah will rule India like it did for 800 years.....
Caste and the City
First of all , get off the moral high horse. We all know you are only here to score some Pakistan vs India brownie points.Which is sad really - for no more than a couple of dozen people will take the trouble of reading the crap on this site....
However the points raised by you are relevant because they are raised day in and day out by the dalit lobby - clamoring for more quotas - including quota in the private sector.
Nobody is denying dalits jobs. All I am saying is why should they get a job JUST BECAUSE they were born as dalits ? Why should caste matter ?The selection of candidates for jobs or for seats in engineering/medical colleges should be strictly on the basis of merit alone - on basis of the score in PCM/PCB or perhaps the % got in an entrance exam.
In India ,atleast in the India that I live - urban India .... we come to know about our caste as soon as we approach the engineering/medical entrace exams. Till then nobody really knows or cares who among our classmates is a dalit or a brahmin or whatever....and it really is uncool and old fasioned to ask people about their castes etc....
But as soon as the seat selection process for engineering begins we all get know about each other`s caste. And the lucky ones are those lucky enough to be born as dalits/other backward castes ...for they are reserved a whopping 50% of the seats...which is no small matter , no matter how one sees it....
The two biggest regrets of my life have been that
1. I didn`t do well enough in my IIT-JEE
2. I wasn`t norn to dalit parents.
For had I been a dalit , I would be in the IIT easily with the score that I got.
For those who didn`t get into IITs , there is an exam called CET - for entrace into regional engineering colleges. I got a rank of 561 out of 25,000. Still couldn`t get the seat that I wanted - Comp. Science at JC College of Engineering , Mysore.
However a dalit classmate of mine (richie-rich-son-of-a-corrupt-bureaucrat) who got a rank of 2200 odd got that particular seat quite easily because of the quota system....
So my persoanl experience of the caste system is that I have been discriminated against by the Indian state. And I am what they call `upper caste hindu`.
Posted by
saint
Dec 8, 2004 06:04 pm
HP...First of all , get off the moral high horse. We all know you are only here to score some Pakistan vs India brownie points.Which is sad really - for no more than a couple of dozen people will take the trouble of reading the crap on this site....
However the points raised by you are relevant because they are raised day in and day out by the dalit lobby - clamoring for more quotas - including quota in the private sector.
Nobody is denying dalits jobs. All I am saying is why should they get a job JUST BECAUSE they were born as dalits ? Why should caste matter ?The selection of candidates for jobs or for seats in engineering/medical colleges should be strictly on the basis of merit alone - on basis of the score in PCM/PCB or perhaps the % got in an entrance exam.
In India ,atleast in the India that I live - urban India .... we come to know about our caste as soon as we approach the engineering/medical entrace exams. Till then nobody really knows or cares who among our classmates is a dalit or a brahmin or whatever....and it really is uncool and old fasioned to ask people about their castes etc....
But as soon as the seat selection process for engineering begins we all get know about each other`s caste. And the lucky ones are those lucky enough to be born as dalits/other backward castes ...for they are reserved a whopping 50% of the seats...which is no small matter , no matter how one sees it....
The two biggest regrets of my life have been that
1. I didn`t do well enough in my IIT-JEE
2. I wasn`t norn to dalit parents.
For had I been a dalit , I would be in the IIT easily with the score that I got.
For those who didn`t get into IITs , there is an exam called CET - for entrace into regional engineering colleges. I got a rank of 561 out of 25,000. Still couldn`t get the seat that I wanted - Comp. Science at JC College of Engineering , Mysore.
However a dalit classmate of mine (richie-rich-son-of-a-corrupt-bureaucrat) who got a rank of 2200 odd got that particular seat quite easily because of the quota system....
So my persoanl experience of the caste system is that I have been discriminated against by the Indian state. And I am what they call `upper caste hindu`.
Remembering Maqbool Butt
Gandhi - our `father` also wanted the jews to offer themselves to the Nazis and not to fight back....he fasted to force the newly formed Indian government to give away 1/3rd of its treasury to the newly formed Pakistan nation........ And no sir , we Indians of today dont like our `father` Sri. Gandhi too much.....so by invoking Gandhi , you only remind us of his various follies - which will never be repeated again.
Regarding Kashmir.....understand this very simple and basic fact. We won`t give it away come what may. Words serve no purpose. If you want it - give up your job , join some jihadi group and cross the LOC. Our troops (haha...all 700k of them) will be waiting...
Posted by
saint
Dec 8, 2004 10:51 am
Romair...Gandhi - our `father` also wanted the jews to offer themselves to the Nazis and not to fight back....he fasted to force the newly formed Indian government to give away 1/3rd of its treasury to the newly formed Pakistan nation........ And no sir , we Indians of today dont like our `father` Sri. Gandhi too much.....so by invoking Gandhi , you only remind us of his various follies - which will never be repeated again.
Regarding Kashmir.....understand this very simple and basic fact. We won`t give it away come what may. Words serve no purpose. If you want it - give up your job , join some jihadi group and cross the LOC. Our troops (haha...all 700k of them) will be waiting...
Caste and the City
Posted by
saint
Dec 8, 2004 07:17 am
HP...its none of your business .Get lost. Doesn`t matter what Rig Veda or any hindu scripture said or didn`t say - Hindus are not obliged to obey their ancient religious books unlike muslims who are expected to lead their lives according to some 1500 year old manual.. 
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