The Modernity Conspiracy

``he uniform message that legitimizes capitalism as the only way, that presents people`s problems as being caused by personal and not social reasons, a censorship that aviods giving equal legitimacy to alternative systems and a system that presents the US as a pargon of freedom when none exists.``

Same old logic.......tell me why overwhelming Pakistanis believe that OBL is not the ``root cause
`` of 9/11? Tell me why Paksitanis believe that they are the ``light of the ummah``? Tell me why many muslims have been made to believe that US is the ``evil empire``? Tell me why YOU believe that religious books are ``incredible`` source of TRUTHS?

THe same old NAZI political propaganda is being spread by you and many others in the name of some ``TRUTH``.

and the only way to counter is through counter-propaganda..................

Ballukhan writes <<< now, tell us now WHAT ``uniform`` message is being propagated............tell us now in plain english Dear Prophet what ``censorship`` is being done and BY WHOM ......give us NAMES and not imaginary DRAGONS out of your imagination............. stop acting as if there is a mysterious power that is guiding the western world which you are trying to communicate to us...... >>>

The uniform message that legitimizes capitalism as the only way, that presents people`s problems as being caused by personal and not social reasons, a censorship that aviods giving equal legitimacy to alternative systems and a system that presents the US as a pargon of freedom when none exists. There is no demon, the media puts out content, you just have to analyze and classify it and you can see the uniformity of the product. How come the US public, before the Iraq war came to believe that Saddam had a hand in 9/11? Or how come only those countries and thier leaders become famous in the US that are marked by the US elite, or the massive advertising industry effectively contours people`s lifestyle and aspirations driving vague tendencies into specific directions, there is a whole collection of social research on this. You mean to tell me that the world according to the media a sub microscopic part of the real world, out of the millions of events happening every day they pick a few here n there, is the actual real world? Just because you are ignorant of it does not mean its a ``dragon`` that I see in my ailing mind.

Re: # 117

Only if the humans USED the machines with compassion..............the world would have been a fantastic place to live..................the fault lies with the humans and not the machines......................

Saima Shah

An excellent article. But all this was expressed in such an intuitive mode of expression called poetry by a pre-modern Urdu poet Allama Iqbal in one of his couplets below:

He dil ke lie mout mashinon ki hakumat
Ehsaase murawwat ko kuchal dete hein alaat

(The dominance by machines is the death of the heart as the tools crush the feelings of human compassion?)

``Now if that is too far beyond your comprehension, may I politely ask you to take your snake charming, rain dancing, magic bean selling posts to another thread. ``

Masadi saheb.........now you can take your dukaan some where else.....at least I do not intend buying your ``true`` Islamic social order.......

`` They are the ``higher mullahs``, the ones who have dominated all media, ....while your petty village mullah who was reaching a hundred or two with his nonsense in the past, now reaches maybe 50. The mullah hasn`t lost much, he is still employed by this media when he can be used but those damn fools you are promoting have gained a whole world to propagandize. ...........What new ideas? hypocrisy garbed as democracy and freedom,......whose message is uniform and whose ``censorship`` though polite and invisible barriers (which you are too dumb to understand) ensures near uniformity of output......Study the modern media and its product and only after that can you bring your `magic bean` salesmanship to the table.``

Stop pretending as if you know some great secret which only you understand.........Come on now, tell us now WHAT ``uniform`` message is being propagated............tell us now in plain english Dear Prophet what ``censorship`` is being done and BY WHOM ......give us NAMES and not imaginary DRAGONS out of your imagination............. stop acting as if there is a mysterious power that is guiding the western world which you are trying to communicate to us......

``You are ignorant of the fact that in a village gemeinschaft, community individual consciousness and the collective conscience are quite similar and quite narrow so chances for ``freedom`` and resulting individuality much greater, there is less standardization of the kind that exists today in lifestyle: ``

I am glad that my farmer fore fathers moved out of their stupid village and out of their lowly Chattel life. You obviously belong to the feudal land lord Khandaan now pining for the ``12 khoon maaf`` social order, an unjust order where every virgin girl of some beauty is unflowered by the Lord`s graced organs.........an order which still exists in large parts of Pakistan . This is not stupid romanticism but sheer obscenity that is being sold by you in the garb of a romantic village life where every one ``enjoys`` pressing the feet of the landlord. What ``Standardization`` are you talking about...your village and tribal society was the most standardized and obscene of all the social order..............

`` every aspect of your life, from birth to death is being colonized and circumscribed. ``

GAAWD what nonsense you have lifted from the critical theorists........ the old order was the worst form of slavery and compared to my fore fathers slavery and because of the western education and it`s beautiful institutions I have the economic as well as the social freedom to chose whether I want to be a musician or a painter, I can go for river rafting, or mountain climbing whenever I want to..I do things which my fore fathers could never do sitting at the feet of your fore fathers...............and you want to sell me the slavery again?

``You see the stick of the mullah but don`t see the maze constructed by the city elite that circumscribes every aspect of life ``

My man you need to se a shrink.because millions of people DO NOT SEE those monsters that you see. YOU suffer from a terrible ALIENATION from your surroundings...........you are living a duplicate life where you see monsters and robots out to dominate you...........YOU need a shrink man!! Go and get one before you start killing yourself and others with your hate......................

``Islam offers a more just a more moral and equity based setup of the institutions where people and not the elite are given importance``

Can you dear sir tell us WHICH Islam are you talking about as it is practised in different parts of the world..............or is it an imaginary land of honey and milk that is being offered while day dreaming..............tell us dear Sir which great social order are you talking about that is being offered in the name of ``true`` Islam??

``No, I rant and rave ......because ``real`` life has become so detached and drab and routine, in other words standardized beyond reason to the detriment of human development. We are not robots but the elite have converted us ``

My man I love the ``freedom`` I have compared to my forefathers. I would probably be licking the feet of Wadheras like you if not for the great Industrial revolution in India. I am glad that the landlords and their mullahs are decimated in India.....unfortunately Pakistan is yet to get out of this feudal mess..... .and you remain the last apologist for that social order.

``And idiot, don`t try to attack Islam, if you have read the book, the Quran``

I pity your claim to scholarship.....go ahead and call me names..... .When nothing works then mullahs like you can claim the right to issue fatwas and threats of apostasy............

masadi various posts:

yawn!!

In #112 ``uncaring and unselfish`` should read ``uncaring and selfish``

#110 ballukhan, I told you to take your snake charming, your rain-dance mantra, to some other thread. Why do you keep posting this BS here?

ballukhan: << You hate these technologies because the ummah is now open to new ideas of democracy, secularism and freedom from propaganda unleashed by mullahs like you......Becasue of this technology you also lose the inherent power to punish, censor and inflict violence over those who spread ideas that challenge your claim to the ``TRUTHS`` . >>>

Once again you talk like an infantile ignoramus who lives in the cocoon of his happy-world of flying cows and dancing pigs, fiction similar to that described by the powerful elite through media domination. They are the ``higher mullahs``, the ones who have dominated all media, concentrated it to ensure that their voice, backed by all the wealth that they possess, gets to the hundreds of millions and billions while your petty village mullah who was reaching a hundred or two with his nonsense in the past, now reaches maybe 50. The mullah hasn`t lost much, he is still employed by this media when he can be used but those damn fools you are promoting have gained a whole world to propagandize.

What new ideas? hypocrisy garbed as democracy and freedom, messages that commercialize every human emotion, that objectify all human relations? That bombard you with images and dreams that neither describe your life nor you will ever attain? Your tiny voices, high on this ``new freedom`` reaching 50 here 100 there are immaterial to those that dominate this new technology and the mass media whose reach is across the globe, whose message is uniform and whose ``censorship`` though polite and invisible barriers (which you are too dumb to understand) ensures near uniformity of output. Study the modern media and its product and only after that can you bring your `magic bean` salesmanship to the table.

ballukhan: <<< .................the villagers CHOSE cities to the supposedly ``paradise`` that the mullahs were offering..........just as the villagers rejected their lowly life in the so called village paradise as slaves to the mullahs..... >>>

Once again your response is that of an illiterate damn fool. Once the structure of the economy changed due to industrial capitalism, the villagers were ``forced`` through forces greater than their personal choice to move to the cities in order to survive and then we see the change in the family structure and the alteration of a community based society to one that is more dependency, need or use based.

You are ignorant of the fact that in a village gemeinschaft, community individual consciousness and the collective conscience are quite similar and quite narrow so chances for ``freedom`` and resulting individuality much greater, there is less standardization of the kind that exists today in lifestyle: the move to the city overwhelms all aspects of life by rules thereby restricting this level of freedom to develop. Just because there is no clear ``collective conscience`` you think you are free, even as every aspect of your life, from birth to death is being colonized and circumscribed. You see the stick of the mullah but don`t see the maze constructed by the city elite that circumscribes every aspect of life taking away all certainty from people, leaving them unsure, anxious, blasé and uncaring and unselfish, a maze that is more restricting than anything the mullah can come up with even in his wildest imagination.

ballukhan: <<< Tell me Mr. know-it-all........was SLAVERY of the middle ages a ``virtous`` social structure............is ``theocracy`` a virtuous social structure?...........is the Shariat bound society an example of ``virtous`` social structure????....tell me what Utopia do you have to offer where people live in a land of honey and milk? >>>

Do you know what a social structure is? Read my article on slavery, the slavery that exists today, globe over, polite though complete, is much worse than any chattel slavery of the past given its scope. A social structure represents the interrelationship between institutions of a society, nowadays the economic, political and military are dominant and we see the effects in the form of a permanent war economy in the US, the family and religion are subordinate, the family is crumbling and religion has become a dependent reactionary force being used by the economic and the military for its purposes. As this setup dominates the third world culturally, you`ll see similar effects.

Islam offers a more just a more moral and equity based setup of the institutions where people and not the elite are given importance. Yes it would be a much better setup and we can attain a much better and equitable distribution of wealth. Leave alone Islam, any system that has any semblance of reason can be better than this nonsense and the madness perpetuated by the American elite and their system. Look at the haphazard patterns of development/underdevelopment it has created the world over, regardless of people`s religion or lifestyles, generating forces that ensure that setup regardless of the mullah, and you can see how miserable this system is.

ballukhan: <<< ....... You rant and rave against technology because now it is difficult for you to hold claims towards special status that you tried as a Prophet of the ``TRUTH``............................ >>>>

No, I rant and rave against the USE of and priority given to, certain kinds of technology and their use as numbing drug for people to live vicariously through fiction and artificiality because ``real`` life has become so detached and drab and routine, in other words standardized beyond reason to the detriment of human development. We are not robots but the elite have converted us into such and applied all the technology at their disposal. And idiot, don`t try to attack Islam, if you have read the book, the Quran you would note that it reproduces every objection that disbelievers had when they challenged it and after reproducing it answers those objections. Bring me another ``religious`` book that does that. And you have the audacity to talk about hiding and censorship and control? There is no masking, there is no hiding. Time and again you read in the Quran `` They say: such and so``, ``Say to them:....`` and it offers reason as argumentation


To the author, I`m sorry for detracting from the topic at times, but these damn fools need to be taught a lesson.

#88 by tahmed32/#89 by Kulharee

You a$$holes ... you`re here for nothing else than feel-good stuff looking at your own posts. You don`t know anything.

So ... fcuk off.

Means of transport cannot be compared with instruments of cultural domination.

Sorry Masadi saheb...as usual you could not comprehend the lesson behind the story.....or rathar you do not want to look at these incidents as an evidence of the conservative mullah`s insecurity.........The incident was an example of the reponse by a conservative stratum within a community towards the introduction of new technologies within a community. The incident demonstrates how the mullahs get afraid of their ``flock`` moving out of their sphere of influence because of the ``freedom`` of phyical mobility that the new technology offered . The response towards new technologies like TV and internet bu mullahs like you has been identical. You hate these technologies because the ummah is now open to new ideas of democracy, secularism and freedom from propaganda unleashed by mullahs like you......Becasue of this technology you also lose the inherent power to punish, censor and inflict violence over those who spread ideas that challenge your claim to the ``TRUTHS`` .

`` The village paradise versus the city ghetto that is the choice that was given to the indians and I don`t blame the mullah for choosing the village paradise. ``

Wrong again..................the villagers CHOSE cities to the supposedly ``paradise`` that the mullahs were offering..........just as the villagers rejected their lowly life in the so called village paradise as slaves to the mullahs, the citizens of this planet are similarly going to reject your propaganda against democracy , liberalism and secularism................

``Technology can be a force for good or evil, the ``demon`` is in its use and how it fits in with the roles and stauses assigned by a given social structure. ``

This time you got it right......but we obviously strongly differ on the values of ``good`` or ``evil`` ............

``When that social structure is busy breaking up all human relationships, seperating people for extrating maximum surplus from them both as workers and consumers ........``

Tell me Mr. know-it-all........was SLAVERY of the middle ages a ``virtous`` social structure............is ``theocracy`` a virtuous social structure?...........is the Shariat bound society an example of ``virtous`` social structure????....tell me what Utopia do you have to offer where people live in a land of honey and milk?

``and offering them artificialities like tv and the internet as substitute, that is when technology becomes an instrument of oppression. ``

what do you mean by ``offering them artificialities like tv and the internet as substitute``.................mullahs like you rant an rave because the younger generation PREFERS to spend their time communicating with each other about their secular aspirations using internet than listen to your propaganda....... You rant and rave against technology because now it is difficult for you to hold claims towards special status that you tried as a Prophet of the ``TRUTH``............................

#108, ballukhan
<<< Re: # 96
``The internet fits into the same tradition of making all human relationships superficial and ``touch and go``, put into place by industrial capitalism, similar to the TV that played its role in breaking up community, fire side tales and social tradition. ``

I recall when the tracks were being laid for the steam engines in Indian villages..........the mullahs would rant about the fire spewing demon being invited by the British to rob the people of their ``village paradise``. >>>

Means of transport cannot be compared with instruments of cultural domination. Also, don`t raise the stature of the mullah by giving him that much insight, the British did rob the Indians blind. The village paradise versus the city ghetto that is the choice that was given to the indians and I don`t blame the mullah for choosing the village paradise. Technology can be a force for good or evil, the ``demon`` is in its use and how it fits in with the roles and stauses assigned by a given social structure. When that social structure is busy breaking up all human relationships, seperating people for extrating maximum surplus from them both as workers and consumers and offering them artificialities like tv and the internet as substitute, that is when technology becomes an instrument of oppression.

Now if that is too far beyond your comprehension, may I politely ask you to take your snake charming, rain dancing, magic bean selling posts to another thread.

Respectfully submitted,

Masadi saheb why do you not go and spread your good word amongst the Frethinkers than tryng to terrorize the faithfuls.......................Say what you can to refute the thesis provided in the article below:-

Do Our Values Come from God?
The Evidence Says No
Victor J. Stenger

Published on June 21, 2005



http://www.mukto-mona.com/Articles/vstenger/morality_god.htm

Re: # 96
``The internet fits into the same tradition of making all human relationships superficial and ``touch and go``, put into place by industrial capitalism, similar to the TV that played its role in breaking up community, fire side tales and social tradition. ``

I recall when the tracks were being laid for the steam engines in Indian villages..........the mullahs would rant about the fire spewing demon being invited by the British to rob the people of their ``village paradise``.

Remember, that those who have power, and who seem invulnerable are in fact quite vulnerable, that their power depends on the obedience of others, and when those others begin withholding that obedience, begin defying authority, that power at the top turns out to be very fragile. Generals become powerless when their soldiers refuse to fight, industriaists become powerless when their workers leave the jobs or occupy the factories. When we forget the fragility of that power in top we become astounded when it crumbles in the face of rebellion. We have had many such surprises in our time, both in the United States and in other countries.

Howard Zinn


The day is coming when the tyranny of the US elite will collapse, and collapse it will. That day humanity will rejoice for the slave masters will be no more. tahmed`s ``gods`` will abandon him and leave him in the lurch.

Wo din key jis ka waada hey
hum dekhain gey

#104tahmed writes <<< The US is the pace-setter for human progress towards everything that is right. The US haters (the rogue mullahs who are no better than common criminals) are the hurdles to human progress. You ignore the latter and try to defame the former. >>>>

Once again he is busy singing the hamd o naat of his ``God``, even as he lies that I ignore the mullahs, when I have condemned them and their relationship in this cycle of violence set in place by the US elite. The rogue mullah are the common criminals like you say but the US elite are the higher criminals whose crime and corruption has greater consequence the globe over

tahmed: <<< No amount of abuse and namecalling will change this fundamental problem. And that is why , as a muslim, I can tell you without playing God that you are headed for hell. >>>>

Yes, you are playing the same role that pharaoh`s conusel played or the elders of Mecca played or the Jewish elders played when the prophets talked against the evil perpetuated by the hegemonic powers of the time. They condemned them to hell, called them evil and plotted against them. Note here, since you are going to jump on this, that I am not comparing my role to the role of the prophets, but I sure as hell am comparing your role to the role of those thugs that rallied with the powers that be to perpetuate inequality and evil and accused the prophets falsely. You are a dispicable fool. Supporting the status quo and the hegemonic elite has only made problems worse, only the face of their alleged enemy has changed, everything else has remained the same and humanity continues to suffer even as they surround us with slogans and myths. The wealth and power of this elite continues to grow and the wealth controlled by the vast majority of humanity including the vast majority of Americans continues to dwindle, and you damn fool by supporting this are playing a part and will be responsible before God for this evil. I don`t think you should worry about others going to hell when you yourself are stumbling wildly towards it.