Celebrating the Khalsa

#113 Pardesi Sahib: You are welcome. It is a shame that the greatest Indian leader, shorn of his writings and censored by modern protectors of SIkhi, is hidden from the other states in India. GGS was a living, breathing human being. His writing actually is like a bow tie on the closed chapters of GG. He states that Akal Purukh sent all the Hindu deities like Shiva etc., Vedas, Gurus, Pirs and prophets like Mohammad as the need arose, but he and only he is the big Kahuna, the only big boss.

Dulla Bhatti: I can visualize someone going crazy from reading the Var in one sitting. From what I remember, it was read only before joining the battle. I can not think of any other poetic work with such motivation.

Some of the Hindu deities mentioned in the Var have disappeared from North India, but are still worshipped in the South India. Please tell me about the Phd`s thesis on DG`s ChritrO_P, if it is available on the net. Yes it has soft eroticism, but some stories are funny like Pink Panther`s infidel Mrs. Clussauo juggling Peter Sellers and two lovers at the same time.

KS: Possibly 99% of Sikhs were Hindus at one time. It should not be a criteria to dismiss Tara Singh in my opinion. The revenge for 1984 should be conversions of Hindus to Sikhi all over India, not killing of more Hindus. Kripan is powerful but GGS`s pen is even more so.

Nietzen,

There has been always struggle for the throne of power......the struggle has been since Nanak......he disowned his sons whom he believed incompetent to preach his message....

the sore losers have always tried to usurp power.....some even changed the Granth or its meanings......to serve their purpose......

It is said that Gobind Singh ji killed a few mahants......they were notorious kanjars......

Read the Nankana Sb. massacre during British rule.....etc.

The same kanjars are now being supported by the India govt.....

They are basically Hindus in the sikh garb.....who entered the sikh faith for personal or their masters` interests..............


It is too large an issue to enlighten you on this board.....

if I were you and interested, read the sikh history..........

Re: # 117

kaura:

thanks.

one thing i havn`t understood is: how did mahants come into picture????

i havn`t read/seen GGS associated with mahants. so how come they controlled gurdwaras?

Nietzen,

The Hemkund story is absurd at best......some guy had a `dream`.....that THIS is the place mentioned in Dasam Granth......

rest is history ...... and crores of rupees for the UP govt....in tourist money........

[Mannyd: Until about 1900, there were idols of Rama and Krishna in Harimandir. They were thrown out with the upsurge in Arya Samaj in Punjab.

Simran #25: As far as I know there were never idols in the Golden Temple as Sikhism is against idol worship.

Kabuli Singh #27: As for the idols of Ram and Krishna in Harmandir Sahib, this was the legacy of the Mahants who came into control of the Sikh shrines after Ranjit Singh`s demise.

KS`s site: The Nirmlas from Brahmin scholastic fraternity, quasi-Sikh Mahants and Poojaries who virtually controlled the Sikh Gurdwaras for more than one and a half centuries, (from seventeen sixties till nineteen twenties),.....
http://www.sikhsundesh.net/antisikhism.htm

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Simran #74 and #75: I`m sorry i was uninformed about idols being kept in the Harmandir Sahib and about the Mahant movement....,,,,And yes, the assertion of a religious idenitity as being very distinct from the other is a recent phenomenon in Sikhism, more a reaction to the Arya Samaj movement in Punjab than anything else.
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Kabuli Singh #85: on April 14
I will give a reply to your paranoid babble shortly...have been busy with classes today... that you come across as a consummate liar and a fudger of history and I have no interest in humoring RSS pracharaks...but hey even after taking the Giani exam ... maybe you just ain`t the smartest cookie .......is the result of your thick skull...so I will humor you once more...
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+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++]

Simran Bibi: I am glad we agree on a historical fact at least. It takes a big woman to say sorry.
Thanks and by big I did not mean Moti.

Kabuli Singh: I am not interested in attacking, changing, learning more about Sikhism or having the works of GGS included for daily prayers in Gurudwaras. In my opinion, they are a historical fact and are not really in conflict with Sikhism. Read the following Singh Sabha report of 1897 or have someone read it to you. This predates RSS, VHP, Mannyd or any other boogymen that give you nightmares.

http://www.dasamgranth.org/dasamgranth/library/1897_report/1897report.pdf

The logic of ` Sikhs do not believe in idolatory, so SIkhs in 1760 did not have idols or GGS could not have prayed to Durga or Shiva` is flawed. If not, order some practise tests from the following site. That might help grow some neurones.

http://www.mensa.org/workout2.php?

Re: # 110

mannyd:

thanks for replying.

i did know about Hemkund Sahib and its association with GGS, but only through internet.

After observing the reaction of some people towards DG, i just wanted to get their opinion.

i think DG is very controversial among sikhs, in general. and anything it contains. hence i would be careful about talking about it/hemkund/chandi di var with sikhs.

if they don`t think it belongs to GGS, then let it be so.

#111 sanjay

[quote]
Thats all about him. Great men are revered and not discussed.
[quote]

Hmmm, I dont get this one, my friend. What is the point of ``not discussing``
inspirational leaders like GGS?

Without discussion how can learn to apply their lessons to life today?

# 109

{it was scary, electrifying high drama .. He wanted to sacrifice a Sikh to Chandi, flashing the sword in the air. After some silence, one Khatri from Lahore offered his head. In the tent nearby, he was `sacrificed`. There was a thud, a scream and blood flowed out of the tent in a drain ..

.. unified the castes from different states of India as one fighting force. The path ahead for Khalsa was still bloody full of torture and being hunted like wild animals, but eventually Fateh came, thanks to Deg, Teg and Bir -Ras of his works}


Mannyd, that was very beautiful description of the situation. thanks.

i remember going to himkund sahib and saw large jatthas of sikh pilgrims. had a great stay at the gurdwara at the bottom and thanks to some rich pilgrim, had a good meal. washing the dishes was a prblem though since the plate grease was not easy to get off due to icy-cold water. nevere knew any controversy about the place though..the pilgrims looked like devout sikhs..many of them very old and frail, but able to do the 2-day arduous trek.

Guru Gobind Singhji was one of the greatest Indians, a true son of the soil. Though he started a separate sect called Khalsa which was different from conventional Hinduism but the Hindus of today need to learn from this great man.

Thats all about him. Great men are revered and not discussed.

``#68 by Netizen on April 14, 2006 12:19pm PT
can anyone tell me about Hemkund Sahib and history behind it. It is related to GGS?``

According to GGS himself, in his previous birth, he perofrmed MahaKal and Kalika Tapasya in a place called Sapt Shring. Sapt Shring is a place in the Hem Kund parbat, where there were seven mountain peaks. The Tapasya was so hard that he attained the Adwait form instead of Dwait Roop. On the prayers of his parents, Prabhu ordered GGS to take Kali Yuga birth. He agreed reluctantly.

Disclaimer: The version above is from the Dasam Granth, Bichitra Natak, Page 21. Non adult Sikhs should take it with a pinch of salt and a sprinkling of nutmeg.

http://www.gobindsadan.org/institute/dasam/pdf/v1_3.pdf

DB #107: ``guys, Dasam Granth issue is very insignificant in mainstream sikh communities...it is always brought up by few here and there and particularly with web sites evolution it looks bigger than it is..``

Good to know that. It was not even consdiered controversial at all in the sixties to connect GGS with these works and by inference to be a scholar of Punjabi, Braj Bhasha, Persian and a great writer of literature. As the Virsa site, which I stumbled on just a few days ago, mentions that there were nine mounds ( about 720 lbs.) of hand written copies of his works.

``..so take with a pinch of salt what these scholars tell you. ``
Of course that is applicable to scholars on both sides of the controversy.

``Most of writing in DG is at the most bir-ras literature...it has very little spiritual value unless we want to train some suicide bombers in near future. ``

Thank you DB, I agree. That was the immediate crying need at that time, in the near future like yesterday.

GGS did not say `` Welcome Sikh Sangat ji. Glad you could make it. Hope you tied your horses, mares, donkeys and asses down properly. Now let us all recite the Mool Mantra together. Help your neighbor, if he or she has a problem. By the by, God and I need a few good men, heads only please``

No it was scary, electrifying high drama, something along the lines of `Temple of doom`. A true Sikh had to put his Sheesh( head) on his Tali(open palm) to approach the Guru. He wanted to sacrifice a Sikh to Chandi, flashing the sword in the air. After some silence, one Khatri from Lahore offered his head. In the tent nearby, he was `sacrificed`. There was a thud, a scream and blood flowed out of the tent in a drain.
Not satisfied, Chandi wanted another Sikh`s head, Guru said waving the bloody sword this time. GGS had really gone bonkers.
There were four more non-Punjabis from four different castes from all corners of India, one after another.
After seeing them alive as Panj Piyares, the audience just went wild. There were eighty thousand Khalsa converts within a few weeks. Each Khalsa was willing to die and not show his back to the enemy in battle.
GGS, the man had lost his father, his mother and four sons to tyranny. He himself died about eight years later in Karnatka after baptizing Laxman Rao, a Rajput Bairagi.
GGS, the Guru had unified the castes from different states of India as one fighting force. The path ahead for Khalsa was still bloody full of torture and being hunted like wild animals, but eventually Fateh came, thanks to Deg, Teg and Bir -Ras of his works.

this is all very confusing. can the gianis please answer these questions for us less giani sikhs ;-)


1. what is it in the dasam granth that makes it a heresy?
2. what is in the dasam granth that some like and would wish it to be revered? by revering it, what is gained ..for who?

guys, Dasam Granth issue is very insignificant in mainstream sikh communities...it is always brought up by few here and there and particularly with web sites evolution it looks bigger than it is....(every pakhandi superstitious saadh with his own website projects himself like a big scholar)... one can find `punjabi scholars` to support almost anything...these days there are more PhDs alive in this field than Giani graduates ever produced:-)...and believe me lot of them are on sale...for minor things as promise of promotion (many babas in Punjab have political links and can do that).. or a paid ticket to US for few weeks. so take with a pinch of salt what these scholars tell you.

There is certainly a confusion about some writings whether they are from GGS or not...but others are clearly not his or you can say it is not the GSS most sikhs believe in or know of. e.g I have read portions of Charitropakheyan and I can say there is no way GSS can write this trash...and if it is indeed from GSS, then hell with it it is very screwed up morality..I don;t care who wrote it, it looks and smells liek trash.

GGS was the last complier of SGGS and he wanted it to be one Guru - the Granth so that there is no confusion in future...so why would he keep, something he thought as gurbani, out of SGGS and give possibility of a parallel granth like it is being projected by some now? Most of writing in DG is at the most bir-ras literature...it has very little spiritual value unless we want to train some suicide bombers in near future. ..I remember when I was little, a guy in our village lost his mind...paagal ho giya si....whenever we youngsters asked people why did he go paagal, they would say he read whole of Chandi di War once and it has screwed up his brain.
even village folks had common sense.

Dost Mittar ji,

a sensible post.....

I don`t think that Santa/Banta is offensive, at least to me....sometimes, intentionally, insensitive and crude jokes are made to insult sikhs....

I remember 12 o`clock jokes - but I had a VERY befitting and KAURA reply.....none made the joke to me after the reply.......I will post it somewhere else.........

Khalistanis are a reaction to the interference and evil designs of Hinjra fundoos......

Sikhs were never known for diplomatic skills......and their plans and ideas were doomed to fail.......

I never support such idiots who do more harm then good thru their incompetency.......

Tara Singh was a Hindu......convert

#103 discover

[quote]
You INDI should start worring about your country coz as i see it, its right at the edge of a civil war sword. On you west INDI will find people demanding kalistan, on there east khokas are demanding NAGALAND. on there south is karela well, they don`t like to call themselve as indians rather they love callling themselve as karalites. Right at north Kasmiris who are also demandiong there own country. I honestly salutes your democracy which has contrlled and surpressed these BIG issues but it can be surpress for long. INDI LAND report are publish in sites like these.
[quote]

Thanks for informing us of these important facts. You have forgotten one important issue: in my neighborhood in Kolkotta there was a guy we used to call ``pagal da``, he lived in a box down the road and also wanted his own country as well. He used to come around and shout ``amra akdeen swadeen hobho`` and after a while we would give him a few rupees and he would move on.

Would you like to contact him? I think he would appreciate your interest and maybe a couple of bucks.