Latin America on the Road to Democracy and Humanism
Najeeb Kazmi July 4, 2006
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#15 Posted by Netizen on July 9, 2006 1:10:36 pm
Re: # 14
dana..
i do think that poverty and class-disparity are two different things.
1. you can have the entire population 100% poor and no class disparity
2. whereas you can have 5% super-rich + 10% upper middle class + 35% middle class + 50% poor.
in case of #1 there is negligible class disparity but very one is poor.
in case #2, there is much more class disparity but relatively less poverty.
now who is right depends on which camp they belong to.
regarding india, the call centers are not sustainable for a long term. everyone knows it. as long as india will be productive and efficient it will work. but does that mean that we should not have them now when it is efficient and is helping people to come out of poverty?
india just liberalised a decade back, things were not really that good in the pre-liberalisation period. there weren`t many multinationals and things were still not good. atleast now things are better.
india has too many people working in agri industry. its just not efficient. we need to move these people to factories/services. hence govt shold develop policies to make this happen. but does mean that they have to throttle the multinationals which are providing other jobs.
regarding latin america, truthfilly i am not that hopeful about it. venezuela has oil and they will do good but as long as oill lasts (which it will for a long time). all the natureal wealth of latin america will be used for social sector. which is good for the people. the MN won`t profit much. but the question is: will they use the wealth of future challenges (for the raining day)/for developing newer technologies which will make them even more efficient or will they enjoy the benefits till it lasts without caring a lot about future generations. if the latter happens then they will be just pushind the current hardships over to the later generations.
dana..
i do think that poverty and class-disparity are two different things.
1. you can have the entire population 100% poor and no class disparity
2. whereas you can have 5% super-rich + 10% upper middle class + 35% middle class + 50% poor.
in case of #1 there is negligible class disparity but very one is poor.
in case #2, there is much more class disparity but relatively less poverty.
now who is right depends on which camp they belong to.
regarding india, the call centers are not sustainable for a long term. everyone knows it. as long as india will be productive and efficient it will work. but does that mean that we should not have them now when it is efficient and is helping people to come out of poverty?
india just liberalised a decade back, things were not really that good in the pre-liberalisation period. there weren`t many multinationals and things were still not good. atleast now things are better.
india has too many people working in agri industry. its just not efficient. we need to move these people to factories/services. hence govt shold develop policies to make this happen. but does mean that they have to throttle the multinationals which are providing other jobs.
regarding latin america, truthfilly i am not that hopeful about it. venezuela has oil and they will do good but as long as oill lasts (which it will for a long time). all the natureal wealth of latin america will be used for social sector. which is good for the people. the MN won`t profit much. but the question is: will they use the wealth of future challenges (for the raining day)/for developing newer technologies which will make them even more efficient or will they enjoy the benefits till it lasts without caring a lot about future generations. if the latter happens then they will be just pushind the current hardships over to the later generations.
#14 Posted by Dana-e-raaz on July 9, 2006 8:37:45 am
Re: # 11
Poverty is horrible and should be hated(not the poor). Having said that, if a country like India thinks it is following a path aimed at poverty ``reduction`` or ``elimination``, the path has to be a correct one. In my opinion, becoming lackeys of global muti-nationals, is not the correct path and in fact is the path towards economic chaos and more class disparity, something which Latin America has portrayed good enough for everyone to understand.
India and Pakistan and all other regional countries have to evolve an appropriate economic model, best suited to the needs of these countries and emphasize on south-south cooperation in all spheres of economic life of these countries.
India has just started to show the economic strain and the ``call centres`` have started to become ``cost ineffective`` and are actually being sub-let to even smaller countries like Bangladesh. Bangladesh might retaliate and deal directly with the multi-nationals, and cut off the link called India..........and it goes on and on.
I am writing an article on ``how multi-national`` corporations and globalization is a ``fools path to disaster. I hope you will read and comment. It will be released shortly to chowk.
Poverty is horrible and should be hated(not the poor). Having said that, if a country like India thinks it is following a path aimed at poverty ``reduction`` or ``elimination``, the path has to be a correct one. In my opinion, becoming lackeys of global muti-nationals, is not the correct path and in fact is the path towards economic chaos and more class disparity, something which Latin America has portrayed good enough for everyone to understand.
India and Pakistan and all other regional countries have to evolve an appropriate economic model, best suited to the needs of these countries and emphasize on south-south cooperation in all spheres of economic life of these countries.
India has just started to show the economic strain and the ``call centres`` have started to become ``cost ineffective`` and are actually being sub-let to even smaller countries like Bangladesh. Bangladesh might retaliate and deal directly with the multi-nationals, and cut off the link called India..........and it goes on and on.
I am writing an article on ``how multi-national`` corporations and globalization is a ``fools path to disaster. I hope you will read and comment. It will be released shortly to chowk.
#13 Posted by Dana-e-raaz on July 7, 2006 8:16:03 pm
Re: # 12
I could not understand what was the purpose of presenting a huge list of articles from a web site. I presume you are the web master of this site and are trying to promote the contents.
Other than that I did not find any connection of your response with the contents of this article. This article is not about religion, but about socio-economic emancipation and awareness against globalization and neo-colonization.
Regards
I could not understand what was the purpose of presenting a huge list of articles from a web site. I presume you are the web master of this site and are trying to promote the contents.
Other than that I did not find any connection of your response with the contents of this article. This article is not about religion, but about socio-economic emancipation and awareness against globalization and neo-colonization.
Regards
#12 Posted by echoboom on July 6, 2006 4:41:11 pm
#11 Posted by Netizen on July 6, 2006 11:35:58 am
Re: # 7
dana...
``....unfortunately, both India and Pakistan are again racing towards too fast, too soon type of model by becoming ``cheap call centres``, ``assembly plants`` and ``garment factories`` of multi-nationals. Result...Mumbai appears picture perfect, outside Mumbai, is a factory producing poverty. Karachi has started to appear good, but outside Karachi, in nearby Baluchistan, people have picked up arms against the State, something which never happened before. ``
what according to you can alleviate poverty in the hinterlands of india?
its not that when there were no ``cheap call centers`` there was no poverty.
so can`t we reduce poverty in the hinterlands (by some other means) while keeping the ``cheap call centers`` in the cities?
dana...
``....unfortunately, both India and Pakistan are again racing towards too fast, too soon type of model by becoming ``cheap call centres``, ``assembly plants`` and ``garment factories`` of multi-nationals. Result...Mumbai appears picture perfect, outside Mumbai, is a factory producing poverty. Karachi has started to appear good, but outside Karachi, in nearby Baluchistan, people have picked up arms against the State, something which never happened before. ``
what according to you can alleviate poverty in the hinterlands of india?
its not that when there were no ``cheap call centers`` there was no poverty.
so can`t we reduce poverty in the hinterlands (by some other means) while keeping the ``cheap call centers`` in the cities?
#10 Posted by nasah on July 5, 2006 8:42:02 pm
``With 88 percent of the tally sheets recounted, Lopez Obrador had 36 percent, compared with 35 percent for Calderon.`` (AP -- 15 minutes ago)
#9 Posted by nasah on July 5, 2006 6:20:13 pm
``Leftist Mexican candidate takes lead in recount
Election workers at 300 district headquarters across the country were working around the clock to add up election-day tallies compiled by poll volunteers. With 70 percent of the tallies counted, Lopez Obrador had 37 percent, compared with 35 percent for Calderon.``(AP -- II MINUTES AGO)
Chavez-ism on the roll.....
there are a few sayings that come to mind:
for every vulgar Goliath a vulgar David....... in other words for every crazy Pharoah a crazy Moses.....what you sow George Bush you will reap as another Chavez...yet another Chavez and yet another Chavez....
.... in other words -- for every reactionary there is an equal and opposite actionary....
Election workers at 300 district headquarters across the country were working around the clock to add up election-day tallies compiled by poll volunteers. With 70 percent of the tallies counted, Lopez Obrador had 37 percent, compared with 35 percent for Calderon.``(AP -- II MINUTES AGO)
Chavez-ism on the roll.....
there are a few sayings that come to mind:
for every vulgar Goliath a vulgar David....... in other words for every crazy Pharoah a crazy Moses.....what you sow George Bush you will reap as another Chavez...yet another Chavez and yet another Chavez....
.... in other words -- for every reactionary there is an equal and opposite actionary....
#8 Posted by Dana-e-raaz on July 5, 2006 2:40:57 pm
Re: # 4
To assess what I said in my article, you might like to read articles as referred in post # 5 from Nabeel Khan.
In particular please see....``The End of the Beginning of Ending Poverty
By Joseph E. Stiglitz
Cheers
To assess what I said in my article, you might like to read articles as referred in post # 5 from Nabeel Khan.
In particular please see....``The End of the Beginning of Ending Poverty
By Joseph E. Stiglitz
Cheers
#7 Posted by Dana-e-raaz on July 5, 2006 2:32:50 pm
Re: # 1
Dear Raja,
Well said and I agree.
Indian sub-continent has been another difficult story, due to obvious reasons. India has the comfort of being in a direction which might take them towards real prosperity...eventually. Pakistan....not so sure, because the process has yet to take shape and flourish.....
I feel India and Pakistan both have a great potential to show the world a new sustainable system model based upon humanism and equality, in line with our original traditions. We should not settle for anything less...our people deserve it. Both should stay away and clear of `devilish` traps and should not relate prosperity to the wealth generation model of the neo-colonialists.
....unfortunately, both India and Pakistan are again racing towards too fast, too soon type of model by becoming ``cheap call centres``, ``assembly plants`` and ``garment factories`` of multi-nationals. Result...Mumbai appears picture perfect, outside Mumbai, is a factory producing poverty. Karachi has started to appear good, but outside Karachi, in nearby Baluchistan, people have picked up arms against the State, something which never happened before.
Dear Raja,
Well said and I agree.
Indian sub-continent has been another difficult story, due to obvious reasons. India has the comfort of being in a direction which might take them towards real prosperity...eventually. Pakistan....not so sure, because the process has yet to take shape and flourish.....
I feel India and Pakistan both have a great potential to show the world a new sustainable system model based upon humanism and equality, in line with our original traditions. We should not settle for anything less...our people deserve it. Both should stay away and clear of `devilish` traps and should not relate prosperity to the wealth generation model of the neo-colonialists.
....unfortunately, both India and Pakistan are again racing towards too fast, too soon type of model by becoming ``cheap call centres``, ``assembly plants`` and ``garment factories`` of multi-nationals. Result...Mumbai appears picture perfect, outside Mumbai, is a factory producing poverty. Karachi has started to appear good, but outside Karachi, in nearby Baluchistan, people have picked up arms against the State, something which never happened before.
#6 Posted by Dana-e-raaz on July 5, 2006 10:46:36 am
Re: # 2
Dear reader Rozaiba,
What you said is correct in its entirety. It has been seen that leaders start with a good note and as the time elapses, start behaving weird. Like Fidel, he was a great leader and should have prepared the nation for a more democratic setup, but unfortunately, he is also becoming irrelevant. Time for a change and new vision in Cuba
Having said that, it is however important that the countries continue to function and go on with a new democratic (democratic first), socialist, anti-global, anti-imperialist agenda and build the economies fast. If they fail to catch up and present a new, humane model to the world, they might become history and we start from ab-initio again. Too bad.
Najeeb Kazmi
Dear reader Rozaiba,
What you said is correct in its entirety. It has been seen that leaders start with a good note and as the time elapses, start behaving weird. Like Fidel, he was a great leader and should have prepared the nation for a more democratic setup, but unfortunately, he is also becoming irrelevant. Time for a change and new vision in Cuba
Having said that, it is however important that the countries continue to function and go on with a new democratic (democratic first), socialist, anti-global, anti-imperialist agenda and build the economies fast. If they fail to catch up and present a new, humane model to the world, they might become history and we start from ab-initio again. Too bad.
Najeeb Kazmi
#5 Posted by nabeel.khan on July 5, 2006 8:55:20 am
There is increasing disgust at the IMF from within the academic circles as well.
Joseph Stiglitz one of the greatest economists to date talks his mind about the IMF here. Mind that he was himself part of the World Bank at a time yet he realized this over time.
http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/bwi-wto/wbank/stigindx.htm#stigimf
Joseph Stiglitz one of the greatest economists to date talks his mind about the IMF here. Mind that he was himself part of the World Bank at a time yet he realized this over time.
http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/bwi-wto/wbank/stigindx.htm#stigimf
#4 Posted by jang on July 5, 2006 7:58:26 am
the author has made some arbitratry accusations against th4e evil IMF as an economic weapon. can he (or others) make a case connecting some really faint dots here? india too underwent economic reform with IMF pressure due to balance of payment crisis in early 90`s...but i would argue that imf is more like a voluntary drug-rehab to kick bad habits.
#3 Posted by drsohail on July 5, 2006 5:57:32 am
Dear Najeeb Kazmi.... a wonderful article. Let us hope the candles of democracy and
socialism keeps on burning in the dark night of oppression and imperialism and one day we
can see the morning of humanism. I hope you keep on writing and creating and challenging.
sincerely sohail
socialism keeps on burning in the dark night of oppression and imperialism and one day we
can see the morning of humanism. I hope you keep on writing and creating and challenging.
sincerely sohail
#2 Posted by rozaiba on July 5, 2006 1:14:21 am
I think the verdict on Chavez and the leftist tilt in Latin America is still out.
If Chavez can kill the personality cult he`s intentionally or indavertently built and allows a succession of leaders to continue his methods of redistribution of wealth, then something long-lasting could be constructed. Otherwise, Chavez could also go down the route of so many other leaders with potential but who fall into the traps of power-at-all-cost.
For the other regimes, they will have to show a viable alternative to the `American model` of economics. Perhaps Mercusor will provide an alternative. But it all remains to be seen.
If Chavez can kill the personality cult he`s intentionally or indavertently built and allows a succession of leaders to continue his methods of redistribution of wealth, then something long-lasting could be constructed. Otherwise, Chavez could also go down the route of so many other leaders with potential but who fall into the traps of power-at-all-cost.
For the other regimes, they will have to show a viable alternative to the `American model` of economics. Perhaps Mercusor will provide an alternative. But it all remains to be seen.
#1 Posted by RajaShekhar on July 4, 2006 11:06:14 pm
I sincerely hope that the people/politicians of the Indian Subcontinent learn from the latin americans and start to come together instead of being major clients for the US/Russian weapons. God bless. Khudahafiz
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