Hijacking of Islam

Murad (#292),

I agree that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) would not have endorsed taliban/al-qaida –style terrorism. His life and teachings of Quran make this adequately clear.

Urstruly,

Your ullema support hatred and fanaticism, so their endorsements are really not needed for a person to reject hatred and violence.

Review #170 and #173 for details. If you still don’t understand “terrorism”, it’s probably because you support it. Add to this hatred and persecution of Ahmadi-Muslims, and it becomes clear where you and your ullema stand.

And that’s the point of this article. I hope you are not fasting … Ramadan was over a few days ago … you know …

Re: # 294

I think in the name of fairness we need to define the term ``terrorism`` first, but again nothing is fair anymore. This is a war and logical outcome of this war is that one of the combatants will lose and other will win. Propaganda is only one tool in this war. This war is being faught between forces of Tauheed (Monotheism) on one side and on the other side the confederate forces of evil aka atheism, secularism, liberalism, polytheism, animism, colonilaism, and state terrorism. Everybody has to choose sides.

Urstruly

It needs no death to trouble our thoughts and consciences and the subject surely is open to discussion.

What do you think?

Murad

Re: # 292

Mr Baig

Who died and made you the conscience of Islam or Prophet?

Thank you Sattar

I think your interact says it all except that I don`t believe The Prophet would have endorsed the terrorism of Al Quida or the Taliban.

Murad

Murad Sahib (#290):

... few rambling thoughts on what you wrote …

Who Wahabis follow is not relevant. They may (claim to) follow Quran, or the Prophet (pbuh), or whatever – the matter is best left up to them.

Whether or not Quran “endorses terrorism”, is a matter of one’s interpretation – interpretation of Quran, as well as interpretation of terrorism. If I recall correctly, it does say something along the lines of striking terror in the heart of enemies, picking up arms against the enemies, and slaying mischief makers. It is the context in which such commandments are to be understood and implemented that makes all the difference.

At the same time Quran professes that we should strive for peace and justice in our lives and communities. It emphasizes patience, steadfastness, and humility.

All this may sound mutually contradictory … but a life well-lived involves maintaining a balance between apparently contradictory impulses and forces, under varying circumstances and conditions. There is hardly a one-size-fits-all recipe. A life well-lived requires one to constantly evaluate one’s own self, one’s motives, one`s responses. A saying associated with Socrates sums it up nicely: ”Know thyself, and nothing in excess”.

It is perhaps for this reason that Quran emphasizes deep reflection and introspection, piety, patience, and prayer, to help one navigate his way through the maze of life in a graceful, thoughtful, just manner. At times circumstances demand that one take a firm stand and struggle with force against force, with violence against violence. Circumstances under which such drastic measures are allowed are severely, carefully restricted so that oppression is not carried out in the name of Allah. But then again, these are my views, and what one chooses to read in Quran depends upon what one is looking for in the first place. This outcome of one’s own bias affects not only the outcome of how one understand Quran ... but it applies to pretty much any document or philosophy one comes across.

After all is said and done, the (almost) universally accepted principle is that one should not force his beliefs on others. As long as Madrasses do not teach oppression and violence, I don’t see any reason why they should be restricted.

Just my $2e-02

Im back again.

The debate seems to have wandered far afield.

What about discussing the Wahhabis. Do they really follow The Prophet`s teachings?
Does the Qu`ran endorse terrorism?
Are the Wahhabis heretics?
Should their hold on Madrassas be restricted??

All Indians are thankful to Nehru and Patel for avoiding the pitfall of defining who a Hindu is. Pakistan and Muslims fell into the trap - by trying to define who a Muslim is - never to recover and be forever damned with the internecine denominational warfare.
Perhaps a fiiting punishment for the divisive nature that they adhered to, though they could escape it.
Indian Muslims still have a chance.

Urstruly (#285),

Let me add as you continue to ignore #271, and now #283 …

My belief is based upon Quran and ahadith. In response, you cannot even explain your faith that you go around forcing upon others. I reject your hateful interpretation of Islam. So deal with it …

The issue is not how you want Ahmadis to conduct themselves. The issue is how you are willing to conduct yourself as Ahmadi-Muslims practice Islam. I accept you as a Muslim, while your response is hatemongering and persecution of Ahmadis. And that’s the difference between you and me.

BTW, blessed month of Ramadam is over … so eid mubarak! I wouldn’t mind giving you an eid-hug … but only if you promise to use deodorant beforehand …

bulleya#282:

I did not pair you with myself as I agree with you as often as I disagree. Hamidm would have been an appropriate choice but I had already used him in opposition to urstruly`s viewpoint. As for who arjun_m is, you may check some of his messages on his profile to get an idea of where he stands.

Is not this whole debate like American English and British English?
I mean both are English, with some difference amongst them.
British do not insist that American stop calling what they speak English because it differs from British English.
Whole world calls what Americans speak English and what British speak
English and does not care if there are any differences because they
are very minute and insignificant.

Sattar #271

That is the point I have been trying to make all along i.e. our respective belief system is so diametrically opposite to each other, as if they are two different religions. And let me reitterate this that I have absolutely no problem with your belief system as long as you don`t call it Islam. I think you should give other people`s beliefs the same respect as you demand for yours.

Re: # 283

So the matter rests on the meaning of the word `Khatam`. This recalls to me the story of a senior advocate of Attock city, named Ain Fatmi, who had used his wakeelana logic to find a way to bypass this barrier to prophet-hood and had proclaimed himself not a prophet (Nabi), but a messenger (Rasool). He argued that their was a ban imposed only on `nabuwat` but none on `Rasalat`. Since none could produce any quotation either from the Quran or Hadees for `Khatamulmursaleen` it was thought expedient to kill that man to silence him. In fact, technically there is no ban even on claiming oneself as God. Pharaoh had claimed, ``Ana rabbakumulahla` but Moses had no technical argument against him except his miracles. Any military adventurer who is successful in conquering the Pakland also uses the same words and proclaims, ``I am your Chief Executive`` and no legal or constitutional barrier can check him. `Allah ho Akbar`.

Urstruly,

”I am the last prophet and this mosque of mine is the last mosque.”

In #209 you mutilated this hadith as you tried to explain it. Your explanation was an obscene attempt at reasoning. I negated your interpretation in #271 and will now explain this hadith for the sake of completion.

Here “last” means “the best model” and “the perfect example for believers to follow”.

Prophet’s mosque is the model mosque for Muslims. It is a place where Muslims gather for worshipping Allah, for marking Islamic festivals and events etc. It faces kaaba, there are separate areas for women and men, etc, etc. It continues to serve as the model mosque for Muslims.

Similarly, prophethood of prophet Muhammad (pbuh) will serve as the model for future prophets. Future prophets will be able to achieve prophethood by patterning their lives after the life of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and by following the message he brought.

It really is that simple …

++++

This interpretation is consistent with message of Quran where Allah calls the dear Prophet, pbuh the best model for believers (33:21), where Allah commands us to accept His prophets as they appear (7:35), and more.

Furthermore, this is consistent with meaning of “khatam-un-nabiyeen” (Seal of Prophets), as the most exalted prophet, whose message will bear witness to the propethood of other prophets.

++++

Now I know you’d rather have your teeth pulled out than admit your errors. But think of all this as me fixing your wisdom teeth. It hurts a bit, but will serve you well over time. I’ll give you a lobotomy next if your delusions persist …

dost-mittar #281: ``As regards arjun-m, his greatest claim to fame was constantly reminding romair``

I am simply trying to figure out who is arjun-m?.........ever since i have joined chowk, i only read the comments of ten or so individuals........i skip over everything else.......so i don`t even know who anyone else is, much less what they say..........after reading the comments of those ten or so individuals, i interact with maybe five or so, or a regular basis (you being one of them)........so i have no clue who anyone else, much less how they would have become attached with me!

had you said, to every romair, there is a dost-mittar, or a hamidm2, or an SR, or a hisexcellency etc, i would have some concept of the relationship...........but who is arjun-m?

anil#281:

I was not trying to ``mark`` chowkies, only suggesting that for every view point on chowk, there is a counterpoint. As regards arjun-m, his greatest claim to fame was constantly reminding romair of his advice to everyone to proudly wear a T-shirt with Pakistani flag in the US when that country was contemplating an attack on Afghanistan in the wake of the 9/11 attack.