What is it going to take to have a Clean Bombay?

Re: # 93
Jango
We`ll start with the spit and go downwards from there ....whaddya say.. -)
Remember the old DD cartoon ``Skin in the bin``.

warrierji, in my defense, i was a good bambaiyya but then i did my stint in up where i got introduced to the parallel universe of pan eating (the joda with pili-patti and kali-patti..). now when i go to bambai, i feel more like a bhaiyya than bambaiyya. i heard about the no spitting ordanance which was enacted a few years back and initially i was a little nervous..so on my recent visit, i stood chatting next to a cop doing ``bandobast`` because some VIP was going from airport to mantralay and let out a nice spit (offcourse into a gutter). he seemed oblivious to my spittting..perhaps he was distracted by the gajrewali sitting at the corner.

overall, i am willing to give-up spitting in the spirit of civic support, if bambai has no emmisions, does not smell of raw sewage (as it does these days even in some plush town areas) and has public toilets which dont need a scuba machine to avoid fainting from ammonia...no need to beat me up.

Re: # 91
I do agree with some of your points and so would people who lived in Bombay. I do think people will make a difference slowly. The only issue is that the influx of people who came into the city to earn a living strained the already creaking infrastructure. To use an engineering terminology a step impulse can only be controlled over a exponential time period. Since the influx took most of the seventies and 80`s (immigration started coming down a bit in the ninties) I think we shall take more than that period of time to accomodate things. Perhaps thirty years.

Now you may say that is too long , but it takes what it takes. Our governments are always reactive. Nobody plans for the future and I do believe it is time that development funds should be a percentage of what a city contributes to the centre.

Perhaps the knee jerk reaction against criticism is always directed at somebody who is seen to be a stranger to the city. If a Bombayite criticised the infrastructure it would be less of a problem, perhaps. Not the best thing, but it happens.

But I promise as soon as I find Jang wherever he lives in Mass I`ll read him the riot act for spitting in the gutter, biodegradable spit or not.
In fact I should say I`ll beat the spit out of him, but then he may be bigger than me so I`ll play it safe.

Re: # 89
I remember that story. I agree that you or I cannot find a pucca house for a bai. What I am talking about is the fact that these issues are not important enough for the middle-classes to protest or act on it, simply because they are too busy eking out a living and trying to get ahead. There is nothing wrong with that either, but then we cannot blame the people who work for us for messing up the city just because they exist and when they exist they will urinate and defecate and spit, on the road if there is nowhere else. I am blaming the middle classes on a macro-level. And that goes back to my central premise, that most people just do not care or make it clear that they care, because as I have said earlier and has already happened on this board, if you complain, people will tell you how lucky you are to live in Bombay and of course, if you don`t like it you can leave. That does not solve the issue but does sometimes silence critics. if you are satisfied with your situation, you can never improve.I have heard it all before so it cannot affect me. I hope you see what I am saying.

Re: # 86
I got my seat through an all-India thing...I just got Bombay, could have been Udaipur or Trivandrum for all I cared. I worked long hours for 3 years in a municipal hospital on very low money, because in India junior doctors only get a stipend, not wages. BMC hospitals even so had lower pay than most all across the country. So no, I don`t believe I have taken benefits as you so delicately put it. I thought this would come up, because this response too is typical. It is ridiculous to say I can`t criticise just because I worked there. I believe for instance that India is an incredible country because of several of its characteristics and not just because I lived there. People live in the UK and criticise it all the time, and you know what? That`s what makes it a great country. Learn to look at things dispassionately, it will do us all good.In the meantime, have fun with your spitters and litterers.

Re: # 82
nb
[ the poor actually work for the middle classes and the wealthy. If we want their work, we need to think of where they live as well, don`t you think? I want a bai, but I don`t care where and how she lives, this is the result.]

Not wrong, but not entirely feasible for all. When Bombay was smaller and domestic help was more local it was possible. We don`t live in Bombay anymore but have a flat there still and we know where our bai lives. She has a flat now no longer lives in a chawl. But all help today is not local. People commute from Kandivili to do domestic work in Andheri.

But it is not possible for all to do so. When you get hired for a job unless nobody asks you about the size of your home and accomodation. Mostly all they want is your address. There was an article in some magazine a long time ago about Bombay`s housing problems and they interviewed an Air India purser who lived in Dharavi. Maybe things have improved so that people can live in New Bombay and still commute easily enough to the airport.

If you were to find a good honest person for a bai who lived beside the highway in a hut how would you go about finding a (pucca) ouse for her? It isn`t that easy. For most harried people finding a bai is tough enough.

I believe if travel in Bombay were to become easier and the city itself were to become more distributed things would improve. People would be more willing to settle a little futher away if the city centres became more accessible. But for a long time the politician-builder-criminal (that seems tautological) nexus ensured that there would be no development in New Bombay and links to the main city to get returns on their investment in the western suburbs.

#84
About Delhi I think use of CNG itself has made an improvement in air quality, though being a landlocked city it will still have pollution issues. In Bombay too, most taxis have become CNG and I think something is going to be done about the buses.

I don`t disagree with what you say mostly, I have seen my city degrade over the years but the blame cannot be attributed only to the middle class who live there.

Re: # 78

This will work if the people collecting the fines don`t take bribes. If these guys work like pandus at traffic signals in the city then they may just take 100 rupees and let the person go.

Re: # 86

God.. I can`t believe that I am getting involved in this cat-fight.. 6 years in the city and I am talking like a Shiv Sena spokesperson.

Re: # 81

I would rather have people who do something constructive for the city than those who come and take the benefits from the place and then slam it.

I am glad that the BMC has started this ``you litter or spit-you clean policy.`` This is some common ground for us. Let`s hope it works and we have a cleaner Bombay.

Re: # 74
I don`t agree, but this article is about cleanliness, and I will not go off topic.

Re: # 77
I was impressed with the improvement Delhi has made when it comes to pollution when I last went there 2 years ago. What on earth have they done?It is still polluted but way better than it was 10 years ago.

Re: # 73
If the purpose of Bombay being dirty was to drive me away, it was a wasted effort-I was never going to live there and I never realised I was so important.... :)
Think of how ridiculous your arguments are before you post them...

Re: # 77
the poor actually work for the middle classes and the wealthy. If we want their work, we need to think of where they live as well, don`t you think? I want a bai, but I don`t care where and how she lives, this is the result.

Re: # 73
It drove you away too! I would never have lived there forever anyway, I have a strange attachment to clean air and open spaces. I lived there while I was training. I would have gone back to my hometown anwyay, instead of which I live overseas! I`m sure you`d rather have the sort of people who litter than me?
Your attitude is typical, and this is why Bombay cannot improve, you mount a personal attack on anyone who does not agree with you. Thanks for your responses, you have proven my point.

Muqaddam,

If my house plan needs approval I wud pay the bribe as anybody does to get it approved. Wont you do that? As a matter of principle I wud exhaust all other avenues b4 submiting to the biggie? Btw city`s dirt and muck is the problem not the corruption in the Corporation.

It`s not that the city was short of sweepers but the shortage of will. Honeslty we dont have
enough bins in downtown Bombay. Do we? In the absence of bins people are encouraged to throw rubbish on the roads. It horrifying the people who eat bananas in train &s throw the peels straight on the edge of plaform. I do personally remove them myself whenever I see them coz any guy in a hurry running to catch his train wud slip btw the gap of the train and platform i.e violent death! I learnt these lessons from an anonymous army man in a train. The army man gave a long lecture to the errant pasenger who threw all the orange peels in the train itself.

How do u recycle waste? Of course we cant implement the scientific procedures of Germany but we can use the business acumen of Marawri and Gujarati baniyas to use the gigantic Bombay waste to generate electricity a la the city of London or atleast the city of Hyderabad (Deccan).

A joke: Ur acusation reminds me of my grand dad`s parable of an young man who got angry with the canal and didnt wash his bum after answering nature call. Who`s the loser? Young man or the canal?? ;-)

The posters of #63 and #75 will be the first ones to lay prostate before the local SS biggie if they want a job to be done in the Corporation.