Benazir’s Legacy

peon writes "masadi saab, all your books keep repeating the same thing saab, same as what you say here saab, over and over and over and over........."

You are copy pasting the same shit on multiple boards, like I said in response, you have not read a single book in your life because your masters wont let you they are mortally afraid of knowledge, so how can you comment on 5, moron.

Majumdar: I will begin my journey like the ZAB with a series of happy coincidences, until then I cannot make any moves so let me use this forum to inspire a few others who might be picked up as FM and can begin their jouney from there....it will happen with or without me in the near future....then will the people rejoice and the Himalayas will stop weeping.................

Re: # 117

masadi saab

masadi saab, all your books keep repeating the same thing saab, same as what you say here saab, over and over and over and over.........and over again saab and when i think it is all over saab, it starts all over and over and over............and over...........

teeeeeedious saab

i have the medicine here saab

(unless a person who is an institution by himself meaning of such great charisma that he shatters the existing strucuture in the minds of the people comes to be, such people are few and far between, for most to become part of the system is to be coopted and help maintain the status quo...)

The subcontinent was blessed to have such a person in ZAB but sadly he was bumped off. Today we have another such charismatic personage, but he is too busy fighting off the " peons of the west" on chowk.com to change the status quo.

Regards

nkg writes "Regarding industrial revolution in Europe, there was no qualitative competetion offered by British colonies"

Of course there was, read the history of the textile industry, also read the British Protectionist Act of 1562

Regarding being part of the system to change it, the system changes the person not vice versa, unless a person who is an institution by himself meaning of such great charisma that he shatters the existing strucuture in the minds of the people comes to be, such people are few and far between, for most to become part of the system is to be coopted and help maintain the status quo...

Re: # 114
AKCheema..
Little more...large number of women were involved in this movement...it had not started with militancy...

Re: # 114
AKCheema...
Actually, the matter is something not straight.... Babri Mosque was not used as public place of worship....It was not used (by court order) for decades...When Rajiv Gandhi ordered to open it again for public use, some people used the Ramlala murti(idol) kept (the idol episode was during british period)...Babur, as per as North Indians are concerned, is treated as jihadi and looter and Ram is revered as God. So, people conscience does not hesitate to destroy a structure in the name of Babur and use it to build Ram temple...If it would have been some other functioning mosque, the episode would have been different. Police,court and once Govt. push the matter to sub-judice, you will not be able to do anything...Anyhow, the temple movement subsided now...before election VHP/BJP rake up the issue...but they are not able to create the same passion...Economy had taken centre-stage in people's mind ( Electricity-Water-Road-Shelter)...

Re: # 113; nkg sahib
"Ayodhya movement was not to target muslims. It was to construct Ram Temple in Ayodhya."

unfortunately one can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs

Re: # 109
AKCheema...
Ayodhya movement was not to target muslims. It was to construct Ram Temple in Ayodhya. The popularity of TV serial Ramayana was utilised by BJP. Telecasted in Hindi on national television. Except south India, entire indian populatin was hooked to it. When the matter of destruction of mosque had come (PVNR initialy offered land in different location in Ayodhya), muslims started opposing it. The resultant riots are related to that. If muslims had remained passive, the riots could have been avoided ( and obviously, if RSS/VHP wanted to construct temple in different site)...the bone of contention was whether the mosque was constructed over a temple...In India, there are instances where temple was destroyed and mosque was built ( Kashi and Mathura, where mosque and main temple complex share common wall)...As per my knowledge ( personal account), the riots in Bhagalpur and Meerat was mostly started in mixed areas by muslims. It spread like fire. When muslims started using arms against police and administration, police changed their focus from riots to muslims alone. The rest is well known...RSS is not engaged in explosive, fire arms training etc. like the mosques in Pakistan.At most RSS members carry stick.It is not underground organisation....

Re: # 110
Masadi...

This may be last in this regard...
If you feel the system is not proper, please be part of it to change it. The communist parties tried with the revolution theory and finally had to adopt the current electoral system in West Bengal,Kerala and Tripura. What the Naxalites are doing is just driven by similar sentiment. From outside, China looks good. But some day it will collapse, just like USSR. China can not sustain such kind of economic boom for long time. When the economic boom is over, it will be doomed. As per my understanding, Pakistan is not a prison state or like China. Army might have more that it's required share of voice in civil administration, but that can be changed.
Regarding industrial revolution in Europe, there was no qualitative competetion offered by British colonies. Though congress tried for "reject British goods", it had failed to work within common people. I think Tagore's "Nastaneer" ( English- Broken Nest) contains some of the contemporary realities in British India. Majumder may be able to comment on that...

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Re: # 108
AKCheema...
Gujrat episode is something different. The history of violence in Gujrat were prevalent and the polarisation was there due to deep suspicion amongst Gujratis and muslims. During British period, part of Gujrat was under muslim ruler. The ruler favoured the muslims during feuds. After partition, the ruler was stripped of his power by a Gujju called Ballabh Bhai Patel(he is hero within RSS fold for his BOLD step)...So, the separation was very much there for quite a long time...During 2002, after the train burning and the Kargil war ( fresh in mind), people sentiment was at it's peak...So, the barbarism reached to the highest level...the muslim casualty was quite high (more than 800) compared to Gujju one ( 200) for the first time... The bad effect of this riot is total segregation between Gujjus and muslims...Gujrati muslims were most progressive and integrated one...VHP used tribals to loot rich muslim's properties...Whatever happened in Gujrat was very bad...But it was supposed to happen...I don't know how Modi will tackle this situation...It will take time...
In the recent elections, BJP has performe very poor in riot affected areas...
I am staying in Bangalore and a Bengali...I eat non-veg...Culturally a local muslim (from Bangalore) is much acceptable than me...Similar story repeats in every state...The story of Gujrat and post Ayodhya riots are abberations...
Coming to integration, most of the muslims in India are integrated..Social backwardness is due to something different reason...more to follow.. Good night...

Re: # 106; nkg sahib

last post tonight, mainly because I don't want you guys to start killing people o'night and blame me tomorrow!

there has to be collectiveness and 'cohesiveness' amongst these cultures; bringing people together and NOT setting them apart. If a 'culture' is singled out, mainly because it is doing exactly that, then for god's sake talk about it! rather then bottling up the anger and killing a whole bunch of innocent people in gujarat or somewhere else.......problem with 'multi-culturalism' is, people become too politically correct; they don't want to challenge anything face to face. They bottle is up and ...boom...you have a Gujarat or Ayodhia or 9/11 or 7/7 before you know it!

That is what I am talking about sir..

Goodnight

Re: # 80
Majumder...

British, European, American and Japanese and Korean companies which made their countries economic powers were all private sector entities

Ans: US and EU countries were industrialised long back. They needed no protection. The difference between Western Countries and Asian countries were huge. Japan and Korea is US stooge and they were rewarded with the latest technology and investments...
China's progress is still driven by public sectors and subsidy....

AkCheema...
common..you guys in India have to put a stop to this so-called 'multi-culturalism'that's going around. I don't mean start killing muslims!, every country/nation in the world has a certain 'mainstream' culture;
Ans: India has more than 15 dominant cultural groups ( excluding muslims). What should we do? Try to destroy all these cultures, which people are practising for thousands of years? Already, imposition of Hindi as national language created strong discontent in Tamilnadu and other Southern States...Personal cultural practises, which does not violate constitution should be kept like that...There is nothing called mainstream culture in India. You have to learn English to interact with people of all the states on India...
India is kind of mini Europe...Each state in India celebrate their own new year...Even Karnataka has their own state flag (read and yellow, if you are watching IPL see the costume of Royal Challengers of Bangalore)...

Re: # 101
AkCheema

accept that if Pakistanis had aimed for a secular democratic path right from the start, we had a fair chance

Ans: Pakistan was created in the name of religion. It was very difficult for MAJ to make it secular. If he had emphasised for regional parity, that would have been better. MAJ had not started Muslim league movement. It was the disgrunted muslims in East Bengal (Calcutta based upper caste Hindus used to exploit Bangladeshis to the extreame. The Nawab of Dhaka was almost powerless, but the elites in Calcutta used to enjoy the cream), who had started this movement. MAJ was kind of spokes person for the Muslim League. I don't think, he was ultimate decision maker. A person, brought up in Gujrat/Mumbai will start "direct action day" in Calcutta!!!!
Congress was initially elitist movement. Gandhi had brought masses in Congress fold.
Majumder, for human development socialist model is better than others.