Solving Amarnath: A New Hope in Kashmir

Dear Indians

I have read many articles of the Amarnath land shrine conflict issue. Actually the author is trying to misguide Indians or trying to hide something or be evasive. the land was actually demanded by the ASB to facilitate the piligrims. But the piligrims allege that the land transfer would change the demographic pattern and reduce the Muslims to minority. Absolutley rubbish and illogical. First of all the place to the piligrims for 2 months in a year. It is a hilly terrain more prone to landslides and snow for 9 months in a year making it unfit for human settlement to stay there permanently. Already the Hindus have left Kashmir because they were forced to migrate because of the extremists. Even in European countries Muslims too demand land for burial of the dead and construction of Mosques. should they be refused, how they will react. what about the demographic pattern, one should ask them. I have come across many countries where muslims were not given permission to construct mosques (denmark). there are extensive reports appearing in the newspapers of Cananda that Muslims are now sowing the seeds of Islamic terrorism. The newspaper quotes the Muslims first settle, increase their numbers, demand land for mosques. Latter on they want the Islamic law "Sharia". I would ask these people can a canadian demand English Law in Saudi Arabia.

Iqbal Singh

PS: there are temples in Pakistan occupied Kashmir which the ASB is not demanding any aceess. Most of the temples in POK have been destroyed by religious fanactics

Murtaza,
Your article is just ridiculous.
As the one from Jammu, I know how much 'pathos' exists in Jammu for being marginalized within J&K (calling it 'Kashmir' instead of J&K conveniently compartmentalizes problem by ignoring the minorities within J&K. It is a cool, convenient trick)-- it is as valid or invalid as 'so called militancy' that hounded out poor Pandits.
None of your ridiculous explanation will wash away those sins.
But as an eternal optimist, io can say that may silver-lining here. After the mob had run out of all Pandits, they were exhausted. And we had a lull. Similarly, the rioting in Jammu will eventually exhaust the mob.
More importantly, the mob in Jammu will checkpoint the mob in Kashmir region. Since most of the traffic has to go through Jammu, This will bring a new stalemate.

But since you seem don't see the other side, I should concur with you "Let's all get back to killing each other -- this break is not entertaining anymore. Let's get the score-boards ticking again -- cricket is not entertaining anymore"....

Thanks DM ji, google tells me that these are the same loser gang who worked with Gandhi ji.

It seems they have always been just influential enough to keep Indians happy.

Re: # 70

NKG:

"..As a Bong, I can say, your's is pure stupid comment.
CPI(M) was not dependent upon muslim vote bank before 1992.."

While I can understand your rush to call it "pure stupid comment". Please re-read it.

I have never linked CPM to muslim votes, let alone what you are saying. I think you lost your handle for someother reason.

Regarding CPM's machinery to get votes in WB, I guess I can invite you to meet Somnath Chatterjee, when he visits my home the next time. CPM machinery has all shades of people, you can experience it yourself. There is no need to play Bong card.

Re: # 72

Dost sahib:

You are correct, on the second thought, Amar Singh is probably making noises. He cannot run finance ministry, and there is very little pork-barrel there for him.

Eklavya#73:

Actually, they are quite influential. Their newspapers - used to be called Al Jamiata in Delhi - was well read by Muslims. And they train imams for masjids and teachers for Madrassas; so, yes they do have an influence.

"N-deal is not a religious issue"

Who are these Jamait-e-Ulema Hind? I suspect some outfit created/funded/supported by or associated with congressis.

Anyone knows the history of and actual political sway held by these 'Ulema' among Muslims?

anil:

I don't think that Amar Singh asked or would get Finance. He knows he will be clueless in that portfolio; more importantly, that is one portfolio which has very little "pork" to distribute, which is what Amar Singh and his ilk are mostly in politics for.

A sensible statement by the Jamiat:

N-deal is not a religious issue: Muslim body

July 07, 2008 15:15 IST


The Uttar Pradesh state unit of Jamait-e-Ulema Hind has passed a resolution disassociating the Muslim community from controversy over the Indo-US nuclear deal and condemned political parties for using the issue to garner Muslim vote bank.

In a meeting held in Lucknow on Sunday night, the organisation took strong exception to the manner in which the community is being dragged into a political controversy.

"The decision whether the deal is in national interest or not is for scientists and politicians to decide. It is wrong to link the community with the controversy," JeUH secretary Kalimullah Khan Quasmi told PTI.

"There is a concerted effort to link the deal with the Muslim vote bank, but this is not a religious issue," Quasmi said.

He said that the organisation is not in favour of giving the issue unnecessary importance and added that the political parties dragging the community into the controversy should also desist from the same.

Last week, a group of senior Muslim clerics and scholars had thanked Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Mayawati for her
stand on the Indo-US nuclear deal.

Re: # 63
Anil...
As a Bong, I can say, your's is pure stupid comment.
CPI(M) was not dependent upon muslim vote bank before 1992. It was poor people's party of mostly peasants and workers. It was not concerned about muslim issues like congress. Even during USSR attack on Afghanistan, CPI(M) never opposed it and treated it from moslem angle.

Rapid breeding and infiltration has created a very big vote bank of muslims in West Bengal, Tripura and Kerala. Furthermore, CPI(M) lost some ground amongst workers and peasants. So, they need muslim vote bank now. Even person like Budhdhadeb Bhattacharya, have to retract statement about moslem infiltration in Indo-BD border, under pressure from party state commitee. Islaimic terrorists are occupying ministerial post in Tripura (Bangladeshi origin).
EVery body is looking for the pie of this growing vote bank.
Regarding opposing nuke deal with USA, CPI(M) is aganist US stuff for long time (DYFI have blocked release of Rambo in Calcutta halls). Their stance and moslem sentiment is matching and so they are using it...

for #60

Eklawya,

Policy can be used where there are people who can be made to follow them or at least who can accept them in principle. Perhaps you very happily ignored the fact that ideologies can confront goood policies and can even create a never ending conflict with almost any policy.

When you have strong foolish ideologies then policies can at best be implemented on paper.

Muslims are not faring that well in any Islamic country, not because Hindus have any policies there. Ideologies of Islam confront/contradict truths, rationality, education and many other forms/tools of social evolution in more than one way. You perhaps know how Islam tolerates policies like 2 child per family??

Only strict authoritarian rule, like that of Chinese communism, can create and execute effective policies against ideologies like Islam. Only other option is to educate people and that is a longterm solution which will not help solve any current political issue. As I said earlier, it is the inherent communalism of Islam that creates most political troubles deeply submerged in religion.

stuka, IMO, there are two major areas of disagreement here.

One, the old romair (and now HP's) assertion that Hindus/Indians need to follow 'sensible' policies (whatever they personally think those policies are) and Muslims will be 'alright' from the Hindu pov. This is a simple twist on Masadi bhai's US Elite argument. You can believe it, but you may also realize the implications for Hindus of going down that route. HP is smart enough to never make that argument within Pakistan itself wrt people say in NWFP.

Second, the assertion that issues of religion/identity are 'vague' to Muslims. No, they are not. No matter what secular Muslims tell you (again, I do not know what a 'secular' Muslim is), those are very very real issues to Muslims. Unless we understand that, we will keep believing that Kashmiri Muslims will start loving Hindus one day if and when Hindus do X,Y,Z.

That is exactly what 'secular' Muslims want Hindus to believe, but it is totally unrealistic (from non-Muslim pov).

"I still fail to see why and who stirred up Muslims against the nuke deal. I was surprised when I first read that the left was using this line. I don’t read Indian papers regularly so I might have missed the motivation but on the face of it there is nothing communal or anti Muslim in the nuke deal, Muslims dislike of Bush notwithstanding. Is it possible that the left encouraged the Muslims community to create another ally or to shift the blame to Muslims? Just a few months ago, the Indian media was outraged against the left but now it is switching to Muslims and citing them as the main opposition to the deal. This may be because everyone senses new elections and whipping up the Hindus against the Muslims is the SOP in India at election time."


HP - On this issue, your thesis is completly correct. Not sure how the Nuke deal and Kashmir discussions got mioxed up but these are two distinct issues. The former is a real crisis, the latter a manufactured one.


" filling that gap in India would require a major effort and the way the political systems are in both countries, some sensible policies to fill that gap wouldn’t be pursued. Brace for some more communal trouble in India."

Look, personally, I don't mind a degree of communalism as long as it is expressed on bread and Butter issues. I would be happy to see Muslims agitate for reservations like the Gujjars did. The problem is the most times I have seen the Muslim community truly excercised is with a vague issue about religion / Islamic identity.

OK, anil ji. Didn't want to come across as rude. Apologies about that.

Re: # 64

Kaal:

UPA needed to bargain Samajwadi Party (SP)'s votes, who relies on Muslim constituents.

SP has now taken a firm position on Nuke deal. Mulayam Singh gave a statement that they were satisfied with Manmohan Singh's explanations and therefore, SP will vote for the deal.

What is the price to be paid for this bargain?

CPM is a different beast, since mid 60s they have built a very secure constituency in West Bengal. As Dost sahib has said elsewhere that their position is ideological.

anil ji, why would anyone AGREE to be the fall guy?!!

You mean Communists have paid Muslims to oppose the deal (and without receiving those payments Muslims would have supported the nuclear deal for India)?