Muslim Ghettoisation

replying #498 Posted by Eklavya,

Not really, It is not mistaken. Murad and others do try to say that this hinduism is different from that hinduism or Murad even says that I prefer to see things as they were in certain period of time without generalizing them (with out giving them a term like hinduism). All this was an attempt to cover what I said about "hurt ego" etc (to explain why one will say things like that). His argument is not valid, everything that spans large time period changes, the whole existence of a thing with respect to time involves CHANGE. Even the Himalaya is not what it was say in 1500 BC. But to use such reasoning to justify your misleading comments about what hinduism is or is not, tells you that here psychology is more important than reasoning itself. What is the history of science? Did it change since its inception? How do you decide when it started?

When you talk about history of some idea/thought/philosophy/culture/people or a religion like hinduism which is more close to these things than those religions like Islam or Christianity (prophet+book), you can not take a foolish simplistic attitude. History of idea or thought or philosophy or culture includes change provided they are originating from the same source have similar scope and have a constant flow.

I can write this much more precisely than what I am writing, but what I am saying is that an unbiased rational person will not try to impress upon anybody that ancient hinduism and current hinduism are two different things even if they have any differences. I gave example of mantras, Brahmins and lot more just as hints to show why saying so is stupid and biased.

Open letter to moderate and liberal Muslims such as Senna

This response was to mulla mandar multankar aka masadi sahab, but it applies to you all. Would you please take new Indianized names such as Mulla Shekhar Lahorkar or Mulli (whatever female equivalent of mulla) Seema Mumbaikar?


Sorry, if I hurt your feelings. Generally religion, sex and money (RSM) are avoided in discussion. It's little easy to talk about Benezir, Britany, Birla and Bhangra. But for mst of us, yours truly included, RSM occupies big chunk of our mind, almost defining our identity.

First, it is not Islam that "captures" political power, the fools do that in the name of Islam,

Who are those fools? Are they non-Islamic? To capture political power "the fools (TF)" need faith enhancing pirs, courtier writers and King-Nama creating historians and foot soldiers and dhimmi tax (Ziziya) paying financier and Jakat (tax) and Chanda paying believers, as per my understanding. Please correct me.

second the ability to colonize the life world was perfected by the capitalists of today and not by the Muslims of the Middle Ages who even when they got political power did not by fact or defintion get rid of the alternative identities that coexisted, at the time of partition the Hindus outnumbered the Muslims of India, and did not consider themselves subservient to them,


Let us leave capitalist of today aside for time being. Hope we are not playing blame game. Do you mean Aurangzeb did not happen? Shahajan was equally brutal as Aurangzeb. Large populace was allowed to practice Hindu religion for political exigencies, tactical reason and for generating revenue as Jiziya. It was not because of any altruistic or attitude of "celebrating diversity."


unlike the European settlers who wiped out wholesale the very existance of the indigeneous folk, the fact regardless of your bigotry against Islam (contrived and full of BS)


Granted they might have done to Americas but did not or could not do it in Asia. But why bring them into picture. We are focused on Islam. I would like you to hold my own mirror in front of me, not show my image you see in your camera. All of us tend to have tented lenses when we focus our camera on others.


is that never before in the history of the world have so many of such diverse cultures been enslaved by externally defined sense of worth and self, as in today's America-led world. The world today is much smaller than it ever was in the past, which has ensured that the means to define and process reality in the hands of the elite are much greater and the feat much simpler.


Compared to Muslim period, in present so called American period, there is more celebration of Indian culture, spiritual practices and art all over the world not just in India. More Indians are doing Yog, Meditation and chanting compared to Muslim period. More Indians are Garv Se Kaho Hum Hindu Hain. World is smaller, thanks to communication technology and progress in aviation. 30% employees of Bell Labs are Indians. More than 50% of telecom and internet related start ups in silicon valley were started by Indians. NASA is 20% Indian. While achieving these successes Indians do not need to profess new religion or disown their culture and identity. Compare that to Rajputs of medieval India. Aren't majority of them Muslims with Arabic first and lat names? Can these Rajputs talk there Rajasthani or Marwari language? Trace the progeny of Raja ManSingh.


Islam has never had problems of identity and worth based on label, Muslims have invented their preceived superiority just as people of other faiths have; the sense of worth Islam defines is based on character and act and not on some label or belonging with a group, in fact it busts xenophobia and ethnocentricity by declaring that all are equal creations of their one God who because of how they act and what they do either stunt their growth or reach higher levels of development.

Would you be able to call yourself from today onwards as Mullah Mandar Mulatankar? A Jain or Boudha can be Mittal, Agrawal, Chougule, Shinde or Singh and be devout Jain or Boudha. Even Indian devout Christians have names such as Rev. Arjun Krishnan. How about Muslims? I have not seen a Indian Muslim with their native language names. Look at even Bangladeshis who separated from west Pakistan because of the pride in their language but you won't find a Bangladeshi Muslim with names such as Nirankar Dhakkakar. The new converts to Islam first lose their individual identity.


Now I know you Hindu bigots are obsessed with Islam, but only a fool would learn from your perversion of history and your ignorance of the Quran what it is about, so refrain from constructing strawmen where you define what your miserable understanding of Islam


For the survival of true Islam you need to get obsessed much more than me, to save spiritual part of Islam and throw away imperialistic and cultural linguistic enslavement part of Islam.

Re: # 512 ajeet,

"What you are descibing is the political process that goes with it. The Pakistani elite want their language closer to Persian and Arabic, therefore the introduction of foreign words in their Urdu. The language spoken by the masses will remain the same except for some change over period of time.
"

What you explained was evolution of natural languages. Urdu is as much natural as Pascal and C++. It is imposed on subjugated people and to tear apart community giving fake language based identity to the new convert to make him more fanatic.

Cheema Sahib / Senna

Thank you.
Satya
Re: 507

I tried to explain how the languages develop, grow and change. This not an isolated incidence, It happens all over the world all the time. For instance the language which we see as English today is very different from the the Language spoken in England pre Norman conquest. The Normans became the elite in England and brought it much closer to French then the native anglo-saxon.

What you are descibing is the political process that goes with it. The Pakistani elite want their language closer to Persian and Arabic, therefore the introduction of foreign words in their Urdu. The language spoken by the masses will remain the same except for some change over period of time.

The political process can hurt and affect the language. The mass declaration of Hindi as their mother tongue by Punjabi Hindus hurt the written Punjabi language as it had to share and in some case give up the teaching of the language in schools in some cases.

The condition for Punjabi, is I believe worse in Pakistan as Punjabi written in Shahmukhi is not taught in schools and in time will disappear. The spoken language will just become a dialect of Urdu.

Re: # 510 Senna,

Re: # 182

"All Muslims are Saudi first, arn't they?"
Is tha a lie or Not
Its also called reverse psychology if you r a liar you name youself Satya"

I am assuming you are muslim. Take a poll of your near and dear ones.

If there is a war tomorrow between Saudi Arabia and India, and the chief mulla of Mecca-Madina and your local Indian mulla gave a fatwa to destroy India

1 would you take a gun against the Saudis and rush to the war front as volunteer?

2. would you train yourself to be a bomber pilot, so that you get to bomb out Mecca-Madina?

3. would you join RAW to infiltrate in KSA for spying?
.
.
.
.

Waiting for your response. Now tell me who is the liar. You answer these questions for yourself. Muslim identity is first and foremost lies with Islam. Period.

Re: # 507
Ajeet
Very astute statement &observation .Indeed u r not defeatable

Re: # 507 Ajeet,

Try to decipher news broadcast by Radio Pakistan? I am assuming you are Hindi speaking. Why does AIR has Urdu channel?

Religion coming from Mid East be it Paulian or Mohammdian is imperialistic in nature. Court and administrative language is yet another means for enslaving others. Slaves internalize it and create hierarchy among themselves based on English/Urdu/Persian accent.

Re: # 507; Ajeet

at last someone with some functional brain cells!

thank you sir

The confusion starts when people start confusing the scripts and the spoken word. This is understandable because for most languages the oral and written language the name is the same,

People of a contiguous area speak the same language. As you move away form this area the language start to change. Even in the same area the language spoken by the elite is different from the commoners. When a lot of people move from outside to this area they bring their own language and the two merge. In most cases the grammar remains the same but the vocabulary is mixed and some words are bastardized.

Now about the script. The script is an attempt to put the spoken word on the paper. So every area of the world developed their own scripts to write the language spoken in that area. But you may use one script to write another language. For example you may use the Devnagri script to write Hindi or you may even use it to write English. Or you may use the Arabic script which was developed to write spoken Arabic to write the language spoken in India.

Dominent people of the area use the script most familiar to them to write the local language.

This is the origin of Urdu. The Mughals wrote the local language in the script they were used to, i.e. Arabic Persian. Hindi is the same language written in the script popular before the Muslims came to India.

Re: # 502 Sienna,

Marathi needs to be learned if you reside in Maharashtra, not only that you need to celeberate local customs, cultur and the heroes. If you do not want then please do not come. If you are Muslim and feel uncomfortable then live in Macca-madian or Pakistan.

This need to be done so that people do not call yo plat pissers.

when the people are SHUNNED and targeted again and again and again....it becomes a cycle and can you really blame those oppressed people to form ghettos? i dont think so. At least they have someone to hold on to

Reply to # 448 of Shattered_Sun,

If we look carefully this video then we can notice Army gear and Rucksacks in the background.

Her face may be looking young , but she might be over 18 year of age and it looks like this video is real as she was narrating her experience to her friends and some one recorded it.

Video clip American Army's Sex in Mosque can be viewed here:

"people of Dharma "

In my ollege days no one used dharam for Hindu .After India /pakistan is large country ,diff pl, dif kind hindu, diff region diff languages .

I think Laddu Pinku Satya Sattywadi Jang and trishuli hope for it which is nothing but a belief .

As hamidm depite being anti muslim was scared by you

Re: # 497

Marathi needs to be made compulasory in education if you are residing in Maharashtra.So one more marathi is added to the million other marathi in

May be, toward creating better mutual understanding, all Indians/Hindus should volunteer to pay the cost of romair/murad bhai's further/higher education and better living standards.

satya, I am not fully sure if that will work. I am not sure what will work. But it is thoroughly unreasonable to expect that romair and murad bhai and many others will 'understand' only they were a little more educated or had more money.

Why Indians continue to hold on to this belief I don't know. May be it is their feeling of being 'trapped' by Gandhi/Nehru and lacking any alternatives...