Kargil: A view from Pakistan

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nashat

what happened to the 12 percent ? ( minority population from 15% to 3% ). mirror. mirror.

our unity ?? do i have to mention ``fight till the last drop`` niazi and his `soldiers`.

yunjaay all ye pinkoes

nchiket

I like the style and immence truth with which the writer has attempted to shed light on the topic.

who says pakistan failed in kargil. india occupied kargil before and after 90 days of fighting against a handfull of mujahideens and loosing around 1700 soldires, several aircrafts, and uncountable dollars they still have kargil. What did pakistan loose? during the war pakistan was able to infiltrate 2000 mujahideens into kashmir and indians are fighting them now and loosing life and property. now the indians have to keep their soldires on kargil heights during winter and the their soldiers are loosing limbs due to frost bites and dying due to cold. finally due to the kargil war whole world knows about kashmir issue which pakistan couldn`t do in the last 52 years. kargil is the beginning of the end of indian occupation of kashmir.

it should not be ignored that it is only the passion of having parity with INDIA that pushes PAKISTAN to repeat whatever INDIA does but the sheer size of this country should have deterred them from doing this.if one thinks that if the kashmir problem is solved things will improve it is only wishful thinking .their mindset does not allow it.both countries should realize that economic upliftment of their people is more important but it does not seem to be their priority.how does one solve/change this mindset?

Re: Amit #25

I think you have read a few articles of Punjab-bashing done by my fellow countrymen and think that you can make something out of it. Apart from your condascending tone its your ignorant ramblings that are really irritating.

Here`s what you want to say behind that understanding voice of yours:

`` We in India realize that all of the Pakistan

is fine except these hateful Punjabis who are

the root of all problems in Pakistan. If only we can do something about them then everything would be peachy and hunky-dory.``

My dear Sir, You can`t pull another Bangladesh on us :-). Try not to. You are already paying a heavy price for 1971. There was a valuable message for you also in it, i.e., you can`t go preaching independence for other people without inviting the same in your own home. Bharat has very few unifying factors as it is. Most of your people are stuck with Dehli soley beacuse of the massive Bharati Army. You can`t blame us for your problems in Kashmir, Punjab, Sikkim, Tamil Nad, Mizzoram, etc., on us- that honor goes to Mrs. Indra Gandhi who thought that she ``had avenged the last thousand years.`` The present Bharati Union is unnatural because its forced.

Pakistan`s problems don`t lie with Punjabis but with very low level of literacy. We will overcome it.

Your assertions of the great Muslim treatment is a hoax. We in Pakistan also read your newspapers and know their pathetic situation. You have reduced them to second-class citizen. In Bharat most Hindus consider the Bharati Muslims as the remanents of the hated foriegn invaders. The message overwhelmingly to your own Muslim compartiot is that they should be sorry for having committed barbaric acts during their thousand year rule. And that you gracious Hindus will try to forgive them for their (Muslims) grave past sins someday. The reason because Muslims in Bharat are so vocal against Pakistan is not out of their feelings for Bharat but beacuse of their fears. I know many Bharati Muslims who were told to go to Pakistan, the minute they criticised Bharat. There`s a strong anti feelings against any non-Hindu. A recent example is the killings of Christains in Orissa. Your country which sends the worst religious fanatics to its parliament is a mockery of secularism.

Here`s the one difference between us; The overwhelming majority of Pakistanis reject these so-called Islamic fundamentalists, they have never been able to get elected whereas in Bharat, since 1947 you have been sending pundits to your Lok and Rajya Sabha. Now with BJP and Shiv Sena you don`t even try to conceal it.

Punjabis like any other ethnic group in Pakistan have their share of good and bad people and we Pakistanis know that. Contrary to your information about the hateful nature of Punjabis, in Pakistan they are usually considered to be very lively, generous and warm-hearted people. My fellow Jats and Rajputs in Amritsar will attest to it. Take a trip down there sometimes if you get a chance.

Sincerely,

Raja Amir Janjua

I thought that one of the main reason for our failure in Kargil was the Indian Media Blitz.

Here in the U.S. we were seeing full-page ads in

both the Washington Post and the New York Times with misinformation that almost sounded

ridiculous. But for the American public who hardly

knows where Pakistan is let alone Kargil-these

ads were convincing enough. There was a rogue army somewhere in middle-east or south-asia led by fanatic and fundamentalist Generals killing and butchering innocent civillians

and aiding terrorists in India. And India

ofcourse is that country again somewhere in middle-east or south-asia where that nice peaceloving gentelman named Gandhi comes from.

Most experts on foriegn policy here agree that one of the major reasons the Clinton Administration started putting pressure on Pakistan was because

it came under strong pressure from the Congress, whose members in turn had been bombarded by letters and e-mails from Indian-Americans, demanding a resolution condemning Pakistani actions.

Our passiveness on this front ofcourse proved

fatal. I wish the operation had been planned

more professionaly. I think our soldiers

performed superbly, it was the statesmen-wannabe`s

like Mr. Sharif who had no clue of how to handle

their jobs.



Your article, Sir, is sort of a mixture of

rambling and misinformation. I don`t mind the

rambling but I am afraid you did a great service

for our Bharati friends by writing this article.

Pakistanis like you, wittingly or un-wittingly

make RAW`s job much easier.

Re: Wasiq #15

I understand your sentiments. I have nothing against Punjabis or anyone else as long as they do not affect my nation or its citizens. I openly acknowledge that Kashmir is a problem and the solution lies in a negotiated compromise. The Lahore process was a start in that direction. There was talk about opening the LOC and withdrawal from Siachen,as a first step. If Pakistan wanted to speed up the process, it could have asked the APHC in Kashmir to fight the assembly elections in Kashmir and prove its support as the representatives of Kashmiris. Instead, Pakistan decided to back the mujahedin based approach in Kargil. This is the same kind of strategy that has been adopted in Afghanistan.

The problem is that the Punjabi dominated Pakistani establishment is blind in its hatred of India. It also has a vested interest in keeping tensions alive with India, in order to maintain its position of privilege in Pakistan. The worst thing is that the Pakistani establishment has decided to play with the fires of fundamentalism to achieve its political objectives. If that was just rhetoric, it would be okay. However, they are deliberately encouraging millions of poor Pakistanis to attend Madrasas where they are indoctrinated into a virulent ideology of Jihad couched in Islamic terms. Instead of pursuing education and productive lives, these poor, misdirected souls are given weapons and let loose on Pakistan`s neighborhood. Already Afghanistan is back in the Stone Age while Kashmir is becoming a big mess. Pakistan itself may also be on the verge of Talibanization. All this in the name of Islam, which is one of the most progressive religions in the world.

The Indo-Pak conflict is rapidly changing from a hindu-muslim issue to a struggle with the Punjabi establishment in Pakistan. Already the muslim community in India is fully supportive of India. The Urdu press in India has been much more critical of Pakistan than the mainstream press. The muslim community is embracing education and economic welfare issues with a passion. For e.g. the Urdu press in India regularly highlights muslim children who are successful academically and gives them celebrity status like movie stars. Muslims are entering the national mainstream and participating the booming economy. The only fly in the ointment is the Pakistani establishment.

Re:shamsi # 23

Thanks for the info!

#FerozK

Beside the point I was trying to make, my answers are:

Styr AUG, correct. CQB, I don`t agree. There are two AUG`s, one is 9MM used for CQB, and the other is 5.56mm, used for field assault. We have the 5.56mm, but is not used by the general field forces, only by SSG unit from Attock and SSG(N) from Karachi. They have been in use for a while.

There is a difference between standard issue G3 (or G3A3) assault rifle and Sniper rifles. G3 fires 7.62 mm. Sniper rifles used by SSG N are H&K PSG1 and MSG90, both fire 7.62 mm round.

G3 and MP-5, MP-5K and other varients are manufactured in POF Wah cantt and are available to all military, para-military and police forces. Sniper rifles are imported for elite units only.

Even without a telescopic sight, G3(A3) fires beautifully from 100-200 yards on the range or under various conditions.

*My friend, it takes skills to shoot with a *rifle!!

I agree, but it takes practice to reach precision in firing any weopon in CQB, field charge or sniper assignments.

Re: shamsi # 20

Just a few questions for you.

You mentioned AUG rifles and I was wondering are you refering to the Austrian Styr Augs and when these enter Pak Army inventory? If memory serves me right, this weapon is for close quarters combat, isn`t it?

Also, on the issue of Heckler & Koch sniper rifles, are these the same ones known as G3 in Pakistani Army? I know that SSG has access to H&K MP-5s and I was wondering if you knew the calibre of these H&K sniper rifles, i.e do they fire a 7.62mm NATO or a 5.56mm?

The reason I am asking you this is, because I have handled a H&K of both calibres and Iove the H&K for the ease with which it can be field stripped! In fact, with a mounted telescopic sight, I have hit targets upto to 80 meters and I know that your friend could easily have had hard returns of 150 confirmed kills with a H&K!

My friend, it takes skills to shoot with a rifle!!

Re: Shamsi

You never know...sir, it could possibly be what you have suggested, and it only goes to show how sick and low these power mongers on both sides can get.

As an outsider, I wish to say that Kargil was an engineered fiasco to fool both gullible Indian and Pakistani majorities in believing what`s not true.

Very strange that there are only ``Mujahideen`` fighting in the high altitude terrain, while two of my SSG coursemates never make it back, though one does manage to snipe 150 people before he runs out of bullets and get killed (martyred if you prefer).

As every military person in Pakistani MOD consider himself Deen Ka Mujahid, It is hard for me to believe that kashmiri fighters would have high altitude gear, acclamitazation, PRC-25 radios and Inmarsat SATCOMS, AUG rifles, NVGs (Gen III) SSG issue H&K sniper rifles and what not.

On the other hand, VJP is ousted and then made caretaker. Shells start pounding and brigades start moving, jets fly CAP and drop laser guided munitions, lose planes like moths, butcher their soldiers in uphill bunker raids. Then India ``wins`` the war when ``inflitators`` withdraw. The same week, elections are announced by the Kargil victors much in their favor with the public polls showing their support for kicking out the ``Punjabis.``

My friends on either side, open your eyes and don`t be exploited. What are your leaders doing to you?

I am going to miss my friends, they loved their country.

Way to go Omar!

Finally, I see a Pakistani with some nationalist views. Most Pakistianis I come accross on the net, are very demoralised and are very quick to come down upon their own country. This is mostly the result of our own media like Dawn, Indian media of course, and impotent Pakistani government propaganda machine.

I agree totally with your cost to Inida views, in fact I posted an article with same points on soc.culture.pakistan (this article was rejected by this site). I fail to understand what India has to gain by keeping Kashmir forcibly. Kashmiris will never accept India as their home because anywhere from 20000 to 50000 Kashmiri civilians have been killed by the Indians and this they will never forget. It is an extremely expensive undertaking by India to keep Kashmir. It could possibly drive their economy to bankcrupcy. It is only the huge Indian ego that is keeping the Kashmir issue alive. The sooner they get rid of Kashmir, the better for India.

There is only one solution to Kashmir issue and that is to let Kashmiris decide what they want to do: join with Pakistan, independence or stay with India. All solutions that don`t inovolve the Kashmiris` wishes will fail.

It is amazing how good propaganda works. Be it difficult position from Indian army was fighting or good Kashmiri fighters, 1000 fighters were able to keep the world`s fourth largest military fighting fruitlessly for two months. Kashmiris and Pakistani fighters had to withdraw voluntarily, only then the Indians claimed victory and an empty one too. The whole world knows about Kashmir issue now too.

Omar,

GET A LIFE...

RISHI