Our Man From Delhi

Let Actions Speak…

It is about time that the military rulers aided by the civilian advisors launched a massive crackdown on the philanderers of the national exchequer leading to reform through a cleansing purge of politics, administration and judiciary so that the goals and dreams behind the formation of this Islamic State are realized. Let us make it clear to all that this sacred and pure land of ours cannot be converted into a Zardari or Sharif Estate , let actions speak louder than words.

Sincerely,

Taimur Malik,

Lahore,Pakistan.

Sure! He is a `Mutter`.

Well, I had seen in some response from Roohi Dita that general Musarraf was a `Mutterwa``, well here it goes.. he certainly is a ``Mutter``. All general Mutter has now to prove that the definition of ``mutterwa`` doesn`t fit him. I can see Punjab`s leadership being destroyed, first step towards ``Mutterwa-ism``. So help us God.

Ronjay

Man or Mutterwa

We have to decide whether he is (1) our man, (2) their man; whether he is a (3)man.. oh not really, (4) or he is a Mutterwa. Well whatever you may say, he is out there to ruin Pakistan. The traitor to constitution of Pakistan, general Mutterwa and his Sharif-ud-deen Prizada or ----zada, and old band of `Banarsi Tugs` is back on the stage. Allah help us and give us strenght, courage and forsight to fight back these evil forces. We expect BB to come forward and lead us against the general Mutterwa rule.

Ronjay

Sahib: (#19)

I am ready to go back and learn from your revision of history 101; ``and learn History 101 when Punjabi (Pali) was the national language of the Indus Valley``. Please let me know of your History 101 book which says Punjabi was Pali, which was the national language of the Indus Valley.

You might like to search Internet on Indus Valley Cilivilization. At the time of famous Indus Valley Civilization, Delhi was probably nothing more than mythological mention in Mahabharata as Indraprastha. By the Delhi`s civilization is more tied to Ganga-Jamuna plains.

In fact written History of Delhi that I have quoted goes far beyond 200 years. Delhi has been destroyed and resettled ten times in recorded history and not all of it in the last 200 years.

ANIL

Well written, however some comments by the readers were showing anti Punjabi sentiments. Anil should go back beyond 200 years and learn History 101 when Punjabi (Pali) was the national language of the Indus Valley. Even at that time General P.M. would have been ``Saada Dilli Da Munda`` But this sentiment is not going to solve the problem. If this is true then ``Woh Hamara Kashmiri Kabeela Hindustan per raaj kar raha, woh tu Kashmir ki taqleef samajhta hai`` sentiment would have solved the problem. In my opinion our leaders are full of @#$%

Re Studebaker #15:

The venom is being spewed by politicians on both sides of the border. Common people have the ability to put things behind them and get on with life because they have got something more urgent to do: earn a living for their family. If a Muslim family migrated to West Punjab from East Punjab, are they not aware of a reverse migration with equal difficulties for that other Hindu/Sikh family? I have personally met an Indian whose right hand had been hacked off below the elbow on his way from Pakistan at the age of 7. He expressed no bitterness, blaming it on the events of that terrible day. When somebody who has been so permanently and so personally affected by the Partition can have no hatred for the perpetrators of the crime, it shows the generous nature of people on both sides.

After Vajpayee`s bus trip, there was jubilation among the common people on both sides of the border. Indians who visited Lahore and went in search of their ancestral homes were welcomed with great warmth by current residents and asked to make themselves at home while visiting.

I read on article in the Frontier Post some 8 months back about a Pakistani visitor from the UK trying to get a visa to visit India. As soon as the counselor at the Indian High Commission found out that the Pakistani was a fellow Punjabi, all bureaucratic rules were waived and he was granted a visa immediately; showing, in this case, that the waters of the Punjab are thicker than the Sikh or Muslim blood in their veins.

As people-to-people contact increases, it will only engender more goodwill for India in Pakistan and vice versa. Let us learn, before it is too late, how horrible the Partition was and let this and the succeeding generations swear never to let tragedies of that nature happen again to our people.

Jay: You stated, ``You can see this happening on the chowk, some positive different perspectives by iahmed, zeemax and two-nation have been under incessant attack by bilal, ur and others.`` I have asked you ealier, and will request you again to kindly stop accusing others.

I have not carried out any, ``incessant attack`` on anyone. I have not commented on any reply from iahmad. Regarding, two-nations, I disagreed with him/her regarding giving the clergy a constitutional role in Pakistan. Two-nations thought they should get this role, I thought they should not. Jay, on one side, you put down the two-nation theory, on the other side you call my thoughts of not giving the clergy a constitutional role in Pakistan, an, ``incessant attack.`` What exactly are you trying to achieve?

Finally, regarding Zeemax, we are having a discussion on whether NS is corrupt or not. Either he is, or he is not. Perhaps pointing out the corruption of politicians is considered, ``an incessant attack`` by you. I felt that Zeemax was making incorrect statements, that is why I asked him to back up his arguments by articles, and facts from around the world. I backed my argument with reports from BBC, NY Times, and various other sources. He has yet to do so. Maybe you consider the corruption of NS a, ``positive different perspective.`` I certainly do not. Perhaps for India, NS` corruption was positive, but definitely not for Pakistan. In my opinion pointing out corruption is a good thing, perhaps you disagree.

Everyone has a right to their point of view in a discussion. If you do not like mine, it is your perrogative not to carry out a discussion with me. However, kindly, do not accuse other people of, ``attacks.``

Thanks,

UR

Studebaker,

What you said may be true, a new generation can start with a clean slate, as long as the old wont pass on the venom. You can see this happening on the chowk, some positive different perspectives by iahmed, zeemax and two-nation have been under incessant attack by bilal, ur and others. What is disturbing in these attacks is that these are not posting a different view point, it is asking for data, quotes and substantiation, trying to discredit the differing views. This approach i believe retrograde, essentially passing on the venom, projecting past into the future, insted of seeking guidance from a vision of the future.

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The Punjabis of Pakistan were equally proud when one of their own sons became Prime Minister of India and their words were identical. IK Gujral recalls:

I was elected Prime Minister and we met in Male during the SAARC conference. At our first encounter, he (Nawaz Sharif) excitedly recounted how the people of my hometown Jhelum lit lamps the day I was sworn in. `` ‘Saadda munda Hindustan da prime minister ban gaya (Our son has become India’s Prime Minister)’, that’s what they said,`` he told me.

Here is the URL:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/171099/detFEA03.htm

If we don`t foster better ties between India and Pakistan, these may be among the last leaders we have in both countries who were born on the other side of the border. What better than to share a feeling of kinship with your neighbor thru ties such as these?

JSandhu (#12) & Truth (#11):

The Truth has spoken correctly when he stated about recent colonies and expansion of Delhi. But another Truth that cannot be ignored is that these colonies are merely colonies and never destroyed ``Punjabi-Delhi``. You cannot say that was the case of original Delhi-walla culture and arrival of Punjabi culture in Delhi.

Delhi has very old history and what Punjabi-culture did to Delhi-walla culture was not the first time, it has happened to Delhi many times before in its long history.

Certainly modern Delhi-wallas (today`s Delhites) would be proud of its heritage. I am sure you would agree that it is worth rebuilding as the show case of most recent decadence of Delhi-society, when Delhi reached its pinnacle in the most recent past (Mughal period). However, I do believe that the Delhi-walla culture I am talking about was very heavily influenced by Muslim culture, and its complete destruction was a direct response to the pains Punjabi-Delhiwalls had suffered during the partition.

JSandhu you have got me all wrong, I am not prejudiced against anyone. Instead I am merely a link to the lost culture of Delhi. Khushwant Singh, one of the last remaining original Delhi-wallas of my father`s generation, has also written about it in his book on Delhi.

Anil, you seem very prejudiced against Punjabi and Punjabis. Fact is that Veeresh was not talking about Delhi of 50 years ago but of today and some one very well could have said that dialogue in Delhi in 1999. It has any effect on Gen. Musharraff or not is irrelavent.

While on the subject, Nawaz Sharief was also considered very much `saada Punjabi munda/bhra` too untill he participated in Kargil along with `Saada Dilli wala Munda`:-) If you look at the pre-Kargil situation, people of both countries never felt closer to each other in the last 52 years. More people were visiting and more artists and singers were performing in eachother`s country(in spite of threats from Jamaati of Lahore and Sainiks of Bombay).

Anil Sahib:

Nice rejoinder. Even though I am Punjabi Delhiite, one parent from Lahore, I enjoyed your article bemoaning the loss of the original Delhi to us Punjabi hordes. Ah, the greatness of Delhi, EPDP (East Pakistan Displaced Person) Colony, aka known as Chittaranjan park, for refugees from East Pakistan, Bengali speaking, Punjabi Bagh for refugees from Lahore and West Punjab, Punjabi speaking. All assimilated, all doing well. All proud Delhiites. That is the biggest tribute to Delhi. But a world was lost in the process.

Anil Sahib:

Nice rejoinder. Even though I am a Punjabi Delhiite, one parent from Lahore, I enjoyed your article bemoaning the loss of the original Delhi to us Punjabi hordes. Ah, the greatness of Delhi, EPDP (East Pakistan Displaced Person) Colony, aka known as Chittaranjan park, for refugees from East Pakistan, Bengali speaking, Punjabi Bagh for refugees from Lahore and West Punjab, Punjabi speaking. All assimilated, all doing well. All proud Delhiites. That is the biggest tribute to Delhi. But a world was lost in the process.

Re: Statesman

Murthyak speaks about self-respect not respect . There is indeed a whale of difference between them. However, i do not support his views, nor do i support yours. Just pointing out a technicality

Rishi

Veeresh:

In a timely and good article, I want to point out that a true ``Delhiwalla`` would protest ``Saade Dilli Da Munda...`` label. It is simply too punjabi, and does not belong to the time Gen. Musharraff left Delhi. According to my grandparents, and parents, there were very few punjabis in Delhi in those days.

I am now in my fifties and have lived in the U.S. for about thirty years. My previous eight generations have lived in Delhi for over two hundred years in a haveli similar to General Musharraff`s in a Kucha behind Golcha Cinema, but our ancestral haveli was in Katra Neel in Chandani Chowk. It was very prestigious to have haveli`s near Chandni Chowk in bygone days.

My grandparents, my uncles and father took extreme pride in being original Delhiwalla, and wanted nothing to do with Punjabi language or cluture, which according to their mindset invaded and destroyed Delhi culture after the partition (about the time Gen. Musharraff`s family left Delhi).

In fact, according to my grandparents, the only competition these Delhiwallas enjoyed was competing with Lucknow-wallas in culture. I could feel they grudingly acknowledged cultural superiority of Lucknow-wallas, but were quick to point out Delhi`s importance. Granparents told me that Delhiwalls would not like to marry their daughters away to someone in Lahore. The feelings were cultural, and were common across the religious boundaries.

Therefore, I am confident, if the General is proud of his Delhi roots, then he would be proud of being part of original Delhiwalla heritage, and not imposed ``Saade Dilli Da Munda...`` punjabi heritage. Therefore, he would also raise an exception with you.

In early 1970 when I was studying in England, I was invited by my Pakistani friend for a dinner at his brothers home in Manchester. His brothers family had moved in from Karachi, a few years earlier. That day, his mother in her late sixties at that time, was visiting them from Karachi. She came out to affectionately meet me. When she started speaking to me, her language reminded me of my grandmother`s language. My grandmother had died in 1960, and I had grown up in punjabi Delhi. Without hesitation I told my friend`s mother that her accent, use of words, and tone of speaking reminds me of my grandmother who had spent all her life in Katra Neel, Chandni Chowk. She told me that she was not suprised because she herslef grew up in Fathepuri and that Delhi`s original language and culture was very unique and common across the religious boundaries.

After that experience, the only other time I heard similar language was a few years back, in a Pakistani Drama video that I had rented in the U.S.

Veer sahib, Gen. Musharraff may be proud of his Delhi roots, but he certainly would object to being called ``Saade Dilli Da Munda...``. Please anything but Punjabi, let Delhiwallas - if there are any left - bring out the original Delhi culture, however decadent it was, and was destined to die.

Anil