Oppression of women in Pakistan: Myth or Fact

Zahra #274
Thanks.

Sadhna:

It`s a sensitive issue and I wanted to come back to it later, when I have more time to think than writing spontaneously(something I prefer and love to do).

[``You speak of ``taliban-bent-of-mind`` and ``negative propaganda``.

Both the above were stated in a different context. One was a sarcastic expression, whereas the other one was a general trend. {I prefer not to spell out any underlying sarcasm, but sometimes I guess I have to}
Probably, I should not have qualified propaganda as -ive. Most of them are -ive by default :-)

[I hope you are not implying that all Afghan women were draped from head-to-toe to begin with or that they are all now accepting the restrictions placed on them by general consent or ignorance or tradition or through being `misled`.]

I was talking in reference to Pakistan and not Afghanistan. Examples should be taken as examples than literally. I like to give real life examples and depict scenarios, in order to portray a mindset. Do not go beyond that!

[Werenot many Afghan women doctors, teachers, engineers for example who worked outside home and were as active and individualistic as working women anywhere in the world?]

I had only read about it, Laiken I ran into quite a few Afghani women from different walks of life in DC and NJ. One was a beautician working for a french spa in NJ[impressive and outgoing lady], the other was my friend`s kid`s Nani[sweet and polished lady], the third group was a family of doctors[my friend`s inlaws]. The third group was the one I had gotten more time to talk to, at a dinner party. Her mother inlaw was amazingly pretty and sweet[Afghanis speak Farsi very differently than Iranis]. A practicing doctor, with a doctor daughter, and a doctor sister. They all had had their medicine from Fatimah Jinnah, Lahore quite a long while back, originally from Kabul. Coming from a family, where my ancestors were linguists [Punjabi, Urdu, Arabic, Farsi and English]and had a number a poets and poetesses, I have a special regard and love for all of the above languages. I have grown up hearing my father[a Qanoon Go - lawyer by profession and genes] reciting poetry in [Punjabi, Farsi and Urdu] very eloquently and sweetly, therefore I was inquisitive to hear this group`s Farsi dialect. It was my first time to have a conscious encounter with such beautiful and well-educated Afghanis. Interestingly, as they all had their schooling and professional education from Lahore, there was a special bonding. One of my aunts[an ex-Principal of Fatimah Jinnah Medical College]turned out to be my friend`s m.i.l`s teacher. Well, world is so small! I asked her m.i.l a few questions on Afhanistan, and saw tears in her eyes as she talked about Kabul. For a minute, I was equally shaken to hear the sadness in her voice. She started telling about all her relatives and how they migrated to the US and other parts of the world during the Russian war. She said something very much like a woman - ``It`s the Ah of the Afghanis that had destroyed Soviet Union and has made its people suffer.`` She also blamed Zia-ul-Haq(late) for his kindness that took the shape of - Talibaans. Yes, she did talk about the healthy Afghanistan and its life-style and then the repurcussions of Talibaans` rule!

In short, I did not imply in any way or shape what you understood. Since then, I have run into a few more and it`s indeed very sad that their culture and land is being recognized as a den of ``fundamentalism`` by the world than anything else. And of course, Talibaanism is a virus than the hallmark of Afghanistan and its people!

``Irrespective of their previous `boldness`, they are now uniformly barred from their previous freedoms. Is this only negative propaganda?``

In short, they are oppressed! You`ve mixed two different concepts and they weren`t used together. That`s why the above appeared to be confusing to you.

I gave examples of women who aren`t from affluent and well educated backgrounds, but are still in workforce in Pakistan - therefore used the propaganda concept - and to some extent it is a (-ive) propaganda in Pakistan. Personally, I have yet to know any Pakistani uneducated woman except for the labor class[even they are becoming far sharper than the rest]. Having a large women population in family; with a large number of cousins and quite a few aunts working in Pakistan and all over the world as professors, economists, finance and marketing professionals, doctors, psychiatrists, chartered accountants, and in foreign services, 98% of friends[in engg. & sciences/technology] whereas 2%[in medicine & liberal arts] - I will regard the Talibaan influence on Pakistani women as a (-ive)propaganda than anything else. In fact, mere nonsense!

Take Care

Siagalph 235

I take your word. But still I am suspicious about your Shusta Urdu credentials.

Note to self:

Zahra`s thinking is on the right track. I should encourage her.

re urstruly #265

You must have your little black book upside down my friend:)

re krashid #268

Thank you. Yeh aapki sharaafat hai warna humko to bus guzaara karne wali Urdu aati hai. I guess you pick a little bit up progressively when you spend almost every summer in Karachi (which I did till I got out of high school). But trust me, I still envy people whose grasp of the language gives their speech a refinement that is unparalled and their understanding sharpness that is almost mystical.

To Myself:

Shall I kill myself for writing what I saw or should I lay the blame on this munhoos ``Interact Window``?

CORRECTION:
``Whenever, I hear the population control aspect being associated with women`s education, I am DAMN ANNOYED and HIGHLY OFFENDED!``

Zahra #267
You speak of ``taliban-bent-of-mind`` and ``negative propaganda``. And
``For example, if I`ve never left the premises of my house and am told that women who aren`t covered from top to toe and don`t keep their gazes low are corrupt then I`ll never look up to a bold woman as a role model. I`ll always consider her as a negative influence than anything else. ``

I hope you are not implying that all Afghan women were draped from head-to-toe to begin with or that they are all now accepting the restrictions placed on them by general consent or ignorance or tradition or through being `misled`. Werenot many Afghan women doctors, teachers, engineers for example who worked outside home and were as active and individualistic as working women anywhere in the world? Irrespective of their previous `boldness`, they are now uniformly barred from their previous freedoms. Is this only negative propaganda?

Sadhana

Siagalph235 #241

Inspite of many differences of opinion and differences in world view, I am amazed at the grasp of Urdu you have.

Just visit to Pakistan to your family or friends cannot give such grasp.

Gymnosophist:

G:[``I fully agree. Various studies have shown that female education is the key to the family`s welfare, and through population control, the nation`s progress.``]

In general, education assists in determining the course of ones life. It inculcates awareness and provides a ground to think for oneself; career,
marriage, kids, and life, in general. Whenever, I hear the population control aspect being associated with women`s education, I am very thrilled. I understand your context, but that`s not it. It`s a process than an end. [Please do not tell me that I should have read your argument with a magnifying glass, as you were talking about ``various studies`` than a ``personal opinion.]

The above forced me jot down the katha kahani of a young woman whose perseverance and hardwork, I`ve always admired. She hailed from a small town in Faisalabad, stood first in the intermediate exams(pre-engg)in the board. Besides the stipend she received for her grades, she was awarded a monthly stipend as a special recognition(by her town) for her undergrad engineering program. Being the eldest, she served as a role model for her younger siblings and many others from her town - graduated with ``honors`` in engineering - and joined a construction company in Lahore. After working for a few years, she came across a nice chap in her field and decided to marry him with her parents` blessings. This is just one example! There`ve been quite a few out there, who are alive and kicking in the male-dominated fields and are making their place. It is far more challenging [in a way] to survive in the areas where women are few and far between in Pakistan than in the West. Many of these women aren`t even from well educated backgrounds to enjoy the moral support of their families, but forged ahead based on their personal drive. They NEITHER became the victims of honor killing NOR were condemned for their persistence. They were appreciated based on their mettle. Hopefully, the young woman`s kids will inherit the strength of character from her.

In this case, it was the improvement in the ``quality`` of life: starting from awareness, followed by decision making, and ending in a family life. That`s what education ought to impart, regardless of the gender. This concept of ``quality`` is a relative term. For the sake of brevity, I will skip the intricacies of this topic - some other time!

G:[My real complaint is .that uneducated and illiterate men would be telling women .....]

* * *On a sarcastic note: Whenever men are sitting idle[wailae` baikaar] they`ll start telling the women what they should or shouldn`t do. One should stay ten feet away from the ones who have that mindset * * *

In your above concerns, I think you meant the ``talibaan-followers`` who won`t let ``their`` women work outside the chaar-deewari Or you implied their derogatory comments towards the working women. Let`s not rule out the % of negative propaganda from this debacle! Every time I head home, I see far more liberals in my surroundings than conservatives. On another note, the talibaans have received far more recognition than they deserved in the past few years. Pakistan, being the unfortunate neighbor will have to bear the brunt of the negative propaganda and the resulting virus. Aside from that, such cases will shed a lot of pressure on the women who are in any way or shape associated with men having a ``talibaan-bent-of-mind.`` When these women will see a certain segment of society progressing, whereas they are in a house arrest --resentment will build up leading to disasters. Interestingly, such men will mislead their family women by condemning the working women and shattering their confidence and enthusiasm, if any. That`s a fine trick! For example, if I`ve never left the premises of my house and am told that women who aren`t covered from top to toe and don`t keep their gazes low are corrupt then I`ll never look up to a bold woman as a role model. I`ll always consider her as a negative influence than anything else.

* Can all progressive minded people dwell in one country ?
* Can all the men handle/live with working women in their homes? If they can`t then you`ll have to keep in mind - the aspect of sending them for an advanced level training. Most of the third world countries have been putting a lot of emphasis on that already. Haven`t they? :-)
* Can all women with the technology-bent-of-mind lead a fulfilled life? Is technology(in itself) the only ray of hope? What if someone is not into it?

In my view, there aren`t any guarantees, but with the availability of equal & abundant opportunities, women will have the room to grow and prosper as ``individuals`` than being ``part of a family`` only.

A nation consists of ``individuals`` and the ``individuals`` should be the ones to make or break a family than otherwise.

Take Care
[PS: Sorry for the late response!]

PM

I am too Naalaique to be on Chowk staff. I cant write even a sentence straight and you think I can handle editorial job. Yaar tusi wi barray wadday o ho.(I am flattered though).

Saigalph

Get in line. You are at the very bottom of the list in my little black book :)

re fairdinkum

``what the hell? I was expecting a long spicy one....what is going on?``

Aqalmand ko isharaa hi kaafi hai. But then I forgot, it is you I am addressing :) As for Tahmed`s advice, I recommend Nike or some other decent shoes to take a walk.

re urstruly

You call me a closet bigot who doesn`t have moral courage. Well, if you have any why don`t you back up your accusation of a `closet bigot`? And by that I mean specifics where you find me specifically castigating people on account of their race, religion, gender etc.

re tahmed

Advice taken. I must say that it disappoints me to see you buying into the fairdinkum hype that I am `full of hatred`. Perhaps some day you`ll be kind enough to back that rather serious assertion up.

Urstruly:

I`ll tell you if you tell me which one of the Chowkstaff you are. :-)

pm261

I didnt get it.

`` I think it is time to take a talk a walk in fresh air and get chowk interactions out of your head.``

Best advice for Chowkoholics I`ve heard!!

fairdee, hope u heed it. Daylight really never killed anybody ...well... not counting those characters in Interview with a Vampire. :-)

Urstruly, if you`re thinking of heeding the advice, get yourself some top-of-the-line walking shoes.

:-)

tahmad321 #259

p`ap`a ji tusi wi baoN hadiaN kadnay o wut. Maan kadhi taaN shak paona eh jay tusi koi trimut o.