A World Upside Down

Re: saminashah

Please read my new article...A Decision To Regret and it will answer your questions...

I agree with Elvayya (sp)...moderate Taliban is a politically correct term to suggest that in case nothing works...the Taliban might be left in power but severly neutered...

Ciao

Saminashah,

For some reason the skeptic in me worries that ``moderate Taliban`` is a strategic and political invention, not one of deep-seated moral conviction. It is certainly advisable to stop the war quickly, and to come up with alternatives to the current set up. But I am not so sure ``moderate Taliban`` is the way to go.

If for nothing else, at least for the little boys and girls of Afghanistan, we need to make sure we are able to pick wisely from all difficult choices facing us today.

Ferozk,

Thank you, sir...I myself am quite interested in what a moderate Taliban member believes in. I think we need desperately to hear some visionary solutions and the convictions to follow through on them.

regards

Re:saminashah # 349

I agree with your talking points about a possible post-Taliban Afghanistan. There are a few caveats, which might interest you and which would make the whole situation a little bit more difficult.

The points, which you have made are very sensible and should be followed. If you are interested...just wait and hope that Chowk publishes an article of mine on this topic...:)

Personally, I do not think that the post Taliban Afghanistan will be any different, because none of the nations that border it want a peaceful and stable Afganistan due to their own vested interests.

Ciao

Nuggets from the Urdu press

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Nasibo Lal in trouble

According to Khabrain, folk singer Nasibo Lal, while singing at Gujranwala Arts Council, allowed fuhush (obscene) dancers like Alisha, Khushboo and Lashana, to perform lasciviously in front of a local audience. People responded with great enthusiasm although the event was against the rules of decency. They repeatedly performed bhangra while ignoring ideology of Pakistan.

Milosevic and Osama

Historian of Afghan jehad Raja Anwar, writing in Khabrain, said that if Milosevic could be brought under trial in an international court why couldn`t Pakistan or any other state ensure that Osama bin Laden is brought before an impartial court? He could be punished only if found guilty. Raja Anwar wrote that Afghanistan had given nothing to Pakistan but kalashnikov culture and was not willing to make any concession, not even on the Durand Line.

Mufti Shamzai`s fatwa

According to Nawa-e-Waqt, Mufti Shamzai of Karachi`s Banuri Mosque issued the fatwa that when the Americans land in Pakistan his followers should immediately take over the country`s airports. Fifty thousand followers did bayat-e-jehad (pledge of war) on his hand. He said anyone fighting on the side of Christians against Islam would go to hell.

Sharif brothers part ways

According to daily Din, Nawaz Sharif and Shehbaz Sharif fell apart in their hideaway in Saudi Arabia and that Shehbaz Sharif had bought a residence of his own separately from the family still led by Abbaji. The paper opined that since Shehbaz had decided to part ways with the family he may lose Saudi financial help.

Pakistan`s paradox

Renowned columnist Nazeer Naji wrote in Jang that Pakistan had a strange history of upheavals. Bhutto, a liberal, chose a fundamentalist officer General Zia for promotion to army chief, who overthrew him and converted Pakistan into a fundamentalist state. Bhutto was a secularist but spent more time banning alcohol in Pakistan and apostatising the Ahmedis to please the mullahs. The initial paradox was that Jinnah was a secular leader who was opposed by the mullahs, but later Pakistan was to be moulded in the vision of not Jinnah but mullahs. Then General Zia chose Nawaz Sharif as his heir but in 1997 he was elected for his economic policies; instead he chose to enforce shariat after coming to power. But for a man devoted to shariat he chose General Musharraf, a non-Islamist, to head the army. General Musharraf who toured the cantonments to defend Nawaz Sharif for sacking an earlier chief, was later to remove Nawaz Sharif. And an Islamist army was now ready to get rid of the jehadi mullahs and rid the state of fundamentalism. Nawaz Sharif was opposing his anti-Taliban policy from Saudi Arabia although his brother chief minister Punjab Shehbaz Sharif had clearly said during his tenure that the Taliban were training the terrorists targeting Pakistani leaders.

What will Pakistan give?

Famous columnist Irshad Haqqani wrote in Jang that Pakistan and the US had discussed the matter of Pakistan`s offering landing facilities during the invasion of Afghanistan but there was no discussion on territorial rights. But General Hameed Gul, through a letter, said that he had trimmed his anti-Musharraf position when assured by him that neither land nor landing facilities would be granted to the American troops.

US to take intelligence help

Famous columnist Hussain Haqqani wrote in Jang that during the Afghan war the Americans used Pakistani intelligence to fight the Soviet Union but this cooperation was not really beneficial; but this time, he hoped, it would be more fruitful. This was a crucial point of time in the Pak-US relations.

Osama wanted me killed!

Leader of the PPP Ms Benazir Bhutto said in daily Din that Osama bin Laden paid Nawaz Sharif of the PML ten million dollars to topple her from government through the device of a no confidence vote. She said that Osama also planned to get her killed, but his plans failed twice.

Present land holding against Islam

According to daily Din, Council of Islamic Ideology came to the conclusion that the present land holdings in Pakistan were against Islam and must be undone because the child born in the house of a feudal lived in luxury while the one born in the house of a poor man was deprived. In the past, land reforms were undone by the Federal Shariat Court on the question of annexation of land without payment of market price.

Beaten up for singing `mahiya`

According to daily Pakistan a police officer ASI Shameem Gondal of Malka Hans had the habit of following a lady school teacher singing the mahiya songs of Mansoor Malangi loudly to seduce her into thinking of love. But the school teacher suddenly took off her burqa and started beating him up with her shoe. Other school girls accompanying her joined in and also beat him up with their shoes. After the beating it was discovered that one tooth of the thanedar ASI was broken but he was allowed to go only after he swore on a copy of the Quran and made the school teacher his sister.

It is not aunt`s home!

According to Nawa-e-Waqt, ex-ISI chief General Hameed Gul said that after the Taliban shot down two unmanned spy planes of the United States, the Americans were bound to run away from the battle field. He said all would soon be well because defeating the Taliban was not khala ji ka ghar (easy as being in one`s aunt`s home).

Zia wanted Afghanistan

Quoting a journalist once close to General Zia, Maqbul Sharif, daily Pakistan wrote that General Zia did not want the Russians to leave Pakistan at the end of the Afghan war. He wanted the question of a new government in Kabul resolved before their exit. In fact he wanted to send Pakistani troops to Kabul in the same manner that India had sent its troops to East Pakistan.

Jehadi organisations are fake

Quoted in Jang, ex-ISI chief General Javed Ashraf Qazi said that 90 percent of the organisations engaged in jehad in Kashmir were fake. Hew said leaders like Maulana Fazlur Rehman and Maulana Samiul Haq were interested only in amassing funds and advancing their political ends. If they were sent to Afghanistan to fight they would jump out of the bus and run away. He said in the past the Taliban were warned many times that because of them Pakistan was being labelled a terrorist state but they did not listen.

Israel did it!

Talking to daily Pakistan, Sipah Sahaba chief Maulana Azam Tariq said that those who attacked New York and Washington should be sought in Israel and India because Osama bin Laden was blameless. He said if Afghanistan was attacked he would issue fatwa for the murder of Americans and Israelis. He said America wanted to attack Pakistan`s nuclear installations while pretending to attack Afghanistan. He added that there would be civil war in Pakistan if Islamabad continued to support the Americans.

Hekmatyar will join Taliban!

Editor Ausaf Hamid Mir wrote that if Pakistan were to sever relations with the Taliban in the wake of similar action by the UAE and Saudi Arabia, it will force two offended Afghan leaders, Hekmatyar and Sayyaf, to join the Taliban and make an anti-Pakistan alliance. This new alliance will stop the advance of the Northern Alliance but Pakistan would be forever deprived of the friendship of its precious Afghan brethren.

Allah will answer Mulla Umar`s call!

According to Khabrain Mulla Umar of Afghanistan had prayed to Allah for special intervention against the American attack, as a result of which Allah had sent down a storm off the coast of Karachi as a sign. Before this, Salahuddin Ayubi had also prayed like Mulla Umar and his prayer was heard and a Christians army was caused to be gharq (sunk) by Allah.

A Lahori heir to Afghan throne speaks out!

According to daily Din, Ashraf Durrani of Lahore was discovered to be in the line of descent of Ahmad Shah Abdali Durrani who established the first Afghan empire. Ashraf Durrani formally laid claim to the throne of Afghanistan and stated that the Afghan people were not satisfied with the government of the Taliban. He also laid claim to the diamonds presently owned by the Queen of England and said that the diamond had belonged to his ancestor Shah Shuja.

Allama Iqbal`s joy

Famous historian Dr Safdar Mehmood wrote in Nawa-e-Waqt that Allama Iqbal would have been overjoyed to see that the civilisation of the West was no longer obsessed by women but by a bearded man called Osama bin Laden.

Ms Mazari is anti-America

According to Ausaf, former chairman of the state-run Institute of Strategic Studies in Islamabad, Mr Niaz A. Naik, wrote to the Foreign Office saying that the present chairman of the institute, Dr Shireen Mazari, was anti-American and was harming the interests of Pakistan by writing against the United States. The paper said that upon an inquiry made by the Foreign Office, ex-foreign minister Agha Shahi stated that she had criticised the United States while defending the interests of Pakistan.

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http://www.nandotimes.com/nation/story/146061p-1425202c.html

Nation: Nation of Islam leader urges Bush

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

to reveal proof of bin Laden`s involvement in

attacks



CHICAGO (October 17, 2001 2:58 p.m. EDT) - Urging President Bush not to ``hide behind national security,`` Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan said Bush should make public the evidence that Osama bin Laden was involved in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

``The nation would be more secure if you give the American people a reason to fight,`` Farrakhan said Tuesday night in a speech marking the sixth anniversary of the Million Man March.

Farrakhan said it`s not enough for America and its allies to say they have proof that bin Laden and his al-Qaida network were responsible for the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

``They have lied before and there`s no guarantee they are not lying now,`` he said of the government. ``There`s nothing wrong with asking the American government to show us the proof.``

The British government has released a dossier of evidence connecting bin Laden to the attacks, but the United States has refused to make its own display of evidence on the grounds that it could compromise its intelligence sources.

Farrakhan has previously condemned the ``wild beasts`` who carried out the terrorist attacks and agreed with government leaders that a strong response was warranted.

But he has also said that some of the hatred overseas of the United States is the result of the nation`s foreign policy, and he called for a re-evaluation.

http://www.nandotimes.com/nation/story/146061p-1425202c.html

Stuka, Shankar

The other option that the US might take:

1. Ground troops, not overhead bombs

2. Being part of a multilateral coalition of various South Asian countries India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Russia, China *

3. A committment to overhauling, working in and following UN decisions

4. Concrete and indisputable evidence of bin laden`s involvement in the WTC; presentation of this proof to the international community

5. A media that is separate from our governmental institutions

6. A longterm commitment to democratic and humanitarian organizations ngos in South Asia and the Middle East; i.e. using these organizations in making international policy.

7. Serious effort in repairing Afghanistan`s infrastructure on the part of the US and Pakistan

Havent thought about how to weed out the al khaida network, but I don`t know if I am devious enough to figure that one out...

*in the opinion of S. Ganguly, Prof. of South Asian Studies, U.of Texas, Austin

regards

Tahmed321 #345

[As Tipu Sultan said ``It is better to have a nation of jackals led by a lion than to have a nation of lions led by a jackal``.]

Joyenda..yabinda !

One can always learn something new like the above

quote attributed to Tipu:)

BTW it was a cricket match :))

Regards.

Re: Sherdil...

For the sake of Historical accuracy.... Tipu Sultan`s quote was `` It`s better to live a day like a tiger than a hundred years like a jackal``...

The exact quote is in farsi .. nonetheless lions did not roam in the forests of shimoga -and Tipu had a penchant for tigers.... - if you ever visit Tipu`s masoleum - you will see references to tigers all over the place... ( a well maintained place by the local waqf board) in stark contrast to the decaying ruins of Serirangapatan ( courtesy of the Arechealogical Dept of India)

sherdil #341 As Tipu Sultan said ``It is better to have a nation of jackals led by a lion than to have a nation of lions led by a jackal``. We have had a problem with a string of ``jackals`` (if I may say so) as leaders after Ayub Khan. PM has so far demonstrated he is a ``sher``. Of course, even a sher must not stay unelected for too long, and we have made an effective move towards democracy by starting at the grass-roots level with democratically elected local government officials. So we may have turned the corner.

I look forward to any more news from Peshawar (like the one about the Afghan vs. Pakistan football match in Peshawar the other day that you mentioned). I live on the other side of the world, but my heart is in Pakistan during these troubled days.

Regards.

PS LOL is an internet shortcut for ``Laughing Out Loud``. LOLROFL is ``LOL and Rolling on the Floor``.

Sherdil

allow me pls -

LOL - Laughing Out Loud

the variations -

ROTFL

ROTFLMOA

amd then there is the plain ol - HA HA HA ..... HAH - to get the pt across.

pretty creative right??!! just finished my dissertation on this hence the eagerness to spread the joy : )

Shankar,

As much as I find bin Laden a case study of the psychopathic cult leader personality who needs to be held accountable for lots of things, I don`t know if there is enough proof to indict him for the WTC...if there is, is it beyond the video of him warning of an event happening in September? Again, while what Osama has said in the video is enough to be extremely disturbing, is there more to back the case against him up? If so, shouldn`t we all be privy to it? If there is no proof beyond the video tape, could he get off on an odious technicality of coincidence or knowledge of but not participation in? Again, to all and sundry Chowkies, I am not interested in Osama`s backside in the very least, but of the fair application of an international and legal consensus of guilt, and in getting who was behind this. I heard a professor and author of books on Central Asia opine that he thinks the party responsible for the WTC might be a domestic group-a really frightening possibility, for many reasons...while I am no Oliver Stone, Sept. 11 has shown me that sadly, reality eclipses our collective imagination.

I think these questions need to be answered satisfactorily in order to justify the bombing of the now clearly abandoned training Taliban camps and areas and of UN humanitarian facillities, if not, we are piling tragedy upon tragedy...

Also, I would be interested in your psychological assessment of the Osama cult, should you be inclined to discuss it...

regards

Reply Sherdil # 333

Sherdil Saheb

Many thanks for your update from Pakistan (and congratulations on your team’s cricket victory).

My feeling (after reading some articles and also some posts here on chowk) is that recent Indian actions are basically a notice to the US that the price for Pakistan’s cooperation vis a vis Afghanistan cannot be a free hand in Kashmir. I don’t think India will budge from this position. What do you think Musharraf’s options are, given India’s position and the Pakistani Government’s need for a victory of some sort to show the people? What is the public likely to accept, what would it find unacceptable? Is there an intersection between possibility and desire here, or are we condemned to another fifty years of wandering in the wilderness?

Best wishes

Zafar

Sorry about my ignorance here, but what does ``LOL`` stand for? I`ve noticed it on a few posts, but did not get the meaning.

Feroze, thank you for the nuanced post on reading between the lines. I found it extremely interesting.

Things have heated up a bit here (courtesy of our Indian friends in khaki). Was it thought out in advance? (Vajpayee telegraphed this when he talked of ``patience running out`` etc) Or is it another designed ploy like the ``hijacking`` to provoke Pakistan and force the US to take sides (rather foolish, if true).

tahmad321, you have it right, when you wrote of the innate good sense Pakistanis have been displaying. I am seeing something rather remarkable happening on the shops and streets here: Many of us have commented on the vast potential Pakistanis have always had, but have somehow never fulfilled. The leadership that Musharraf is providing seems to be bringing out that good sense and the beginings of a cohesive focus - people are talking of industry, self sufficiency etc, in a very practical way. Not in the wishful manner that I have heard in the past. Maybe it was leadership that we lacked all along ...

dost-mittar, thanks for the good ``review`` (!). I shall have to try to live up to that now! Let`s see if I do as well on my next post :)

Harimau:

“Precious, you must have seen that this was my SECOND reply. When I re-read your post, I could see that you wanted to use the word `b@stard`. So I came back with a reply with good info (such as the Great Indian Bustard is to be found in the deserts of Pakistan -- incidentally, the Gulf sheikhs come to Pakistan to hunt them) and then for fun added that I really meant the different word. That of course caused humorless people like Tahmed321 to go into diatribes against me, which I don´t mind at all.

Just don´t join his ilk. Retain a sense of humor at all times.”

….after reading your posts, it’s hard to retain a sense of anything….. but since you asked...