Paki Students in the US: a Female Perspective

Arghhhhhh............

moidalam

lobotomy, castration - i see your pt - all half-hearted attempts. think we should bring back the guillotine. see a lot of personal disadv`s for YOU in taht : )

aicha

````en masse`` - errr wouldnt you be part of that herd?``

is this ur only consideration which is preventing u from supporting it?

y am i blushing?

:)

moidalam

``en masse`` - errr wouldnt you be part of that herd? : )

aicha

``and therefore the need of the hour... lobotomy en masse?!``

i thought u were for ``castration en masse``!! Any personal disadvantage u see in it? :)

moidalam - thought so too : ) but this was more fun - oui? appreciate the indulgence.

Asim Hayat - and therefore the need of the hour... lobotomy en masse?!

aicha

aicha

i think we do not disgree on this, it is just some mis-readings that we both r doing with each other replies.

i didnt say that men generally do not classify women. i just said that if a man wants to write something like the write, then women can be classified too in 5 separate categories from bithiest ones to angels. But conscious attempts should be made NOT to generalise ppl along gender, ethinic, nationality lines. It just does not help anyone.

Regarding the comment about change in ppl. I doint mean that ppl do not chnage with time. they do, obviously. But ppl always have one face for starangers (what u call first impression) and other relaxed face (true face) with friends. This is natural defense in human beings. They feel relaxed only after some familiarity develops. For instance with strangers ppl always guard their space. In elevators, most ppl feel uneasy if it is a bit crowded. but if the same elevator is filled with longtime friedns or acquantances, then this uneasiness goes away. In both the cases, an `attack` or physical harm is remote possibility, but this is how human beings care about their defense. Just a human psychology thing. so u can not have a world in which there is no deifference b/w inner and outer faces of human beings. this gap is part of natural defense system.

``think i am being very realistic, and see the world as it is. And u r seeing the world as u want it to be. BIG DIFFERENCE.``

Suspect we have also reached the ``tiloon mein tail all gone`` stage but here goes -

``Now, from ur actual life experience, find out one person, whom u have known for years, and he/she was exactly the same as u got the impression in the first meeting.``

What are we talking about here - friends or accquaintances??

Eitherways people are not static identities - constantly evolving - it would be extremely foolish of me to expect them to remain the same over time. Infact boring. However their loyalties & affections should remain unchanged over time. All the people i am in touch with are the same - perhaps more worldly wise but still the same at heart. And i treasure each one and value their opinions.

You sound a bit phobic up there.

``Men can too generalize women in 5 or so categories, from bitchiest ones to angles.``

oh grow up!! They do and in most unflattering terms - so if they get a bit back shouldnt cry about it : )

aicha

Re : #120 aicha

``moidalam - here we go with the generalizations again. Why is it taht men cant handle women on equal terms????``

Do you think you have it in you to be able to handle the truth.. yes! Okay here it goes. Our religion, Islam clearly states that women are inferior to men, that men are superior to women. Of course the interpretation of this is quite varied, but by and large in an illiterate society like ours, this is meant to be the absolute power the misogynists needed to coerce the women into subjugation. This is the primary reaosn that paki men have a hard time acknowledging edcuated poaki women etc. Though the story does just not ned there. the so claled foreigh educated paki woman also starts getting into delsuions of grandeur, whereby she looks at her countrymen, as being all despicable and consequently not worthy of knowing.

Its an inevitable battle of the sexes. Misogyny is the root cause of such problems within Pakistan.

aicha

i think i am being very realistic, and see the world as it is. And u r seeing the world as u want it to be. BIG DIFFERENCE.

Now, from ur actual life experience, find out one person, whom u have known for years, and he/she was exactly the same as u got the impression in the first meeting.

I am not just saying this thing against one group of women. The same arguments hold against men as well. Men can too generalize women in 5 or so categories, from bitchiest ones to angles. But what the use?

``the world is only as complicated as you make it to be !``.

I think no matter if u want to make this world very simple, it will remain just as complicated as it is. u gotta adapt urself, make room for others, and enjoy all social games.

moidalam

you do really need to hone up your skills - you know : )

But, Mr Moidalam - something tells me you are not in touch with reality - ie - you cant have it both ways - if one has hangups/veneer then one runs the risk of getting tossed aside for one with no-whitewash : ) so your complaints against ``those women`` - just dont wash - the world is only as complicated as you make it to be !

``what is necessary is that ppl talk`` - agreed and a lot of it too !!

``... This is what I am talking about`` - gotcha !!

aicha

OK, i lost the first impression touch! so it means that we can not talk further ? :)) This is all against which we were talking about, right?

u see, i have to see a place in this world, where ppl do not play games. we all play some social games, and having a veneer is such a common thing. This veneer is just for a defense purpose, and ppl pften throw it away when they feel comfortable with the opposite person. it however varies how long and to what extent a person loses this defense (veneer), but ppl do throw it away once they r OK with the opposite person.

So be it paki man or woman, a thick or thin veneer got to be there in the first meeting. what is necessary is that ppl talk.

A person who labels ppl in the first meeting, and then throw them away in the social garbage bag (just like the article`s writer) is then doing a BIG mistake. This is what I am talking about.

aicha

OK, i lost the first impression touch! so it means that we can not talk further ? :)) This is all against which we were talking about, right?

u see, i have to see a place in this world, where ppl do not play games. we all play some social games, and having a veneer is such a common thing. This veneer is just for a defense purpose, and ppl pften throw it away when they feel comfortable with the opposite person. it however varies how long and to what extent a person loses this defense (veneer), but ppl do throw it away once they r OK with the opposite person.

So be it paki man or woman, a thick or thin veneer got to be there in the first meeting. what is necessary is that ppl talk.

A person who labels ppl in the first meeting, and then throw them away in the social garbage bag (just like the article`s writer) is then doing a BIG mistake. This is what I am talking about.

moidalam

``However the case of `Erum Ahmed` sort of generalizes the fringe group of paki women who `think` every paki man around them is in categories 1-4, and do not go beyond that thinking. They never care to see what this person is all about beneath the veneer he has.``

Well first off let me tell you - first impressions are what its all about. However why does ``this person`` have to wait for the woman to discover ``all beneath the veneer``. Why cant he take the initiative and show the toher person what he is all about from the getgo!! I can tell you this really would be appreciated. You know this is the problem with Muslim men - too stuckup - for reasons god alone knows!! meanwhile the other person is busy thinking - eeks mulish with bits of categories n&n no sign of 5 - time to move oooon - whereas infact he probably is a darling behind the fcacade. And i am not generalizing here.

Coming back to Erum Ahmed - that really is a sad but amazing story. Too bad she threw her life away on a person - who appears to be the scum of the earth. I wonder when the TV version will be out.

And your sympathies are in the right place.

aicha

my aplogies if i sounded the one generalizing paki women folk. but i am not generalizing. However the case of `Erum Ahmed` sort of generalizes the fringe group of paki women who `think` every paki man around them is in categories 1-4, and do not go beyond that thinking. They never care to see what this person is all about beneath the veneer he has. They usually end up like Erum Ahmed. The same thing goes with paki men who think along the same lines about paki women.

my sympathasies go with Erum Ahmed.

#120

moidalam - here we go with the generalizations again. Why is it taht men cant handle women on equal terms????