Removed From Reality

Semipreciousme.

``..the same old we`ll die but never give up kashmir...somebody needs to work up the guts to tell the ppl that our stance on kashmir is literally ruining us...``

Ok, well, you`ve intrigued me before and you do so again. I have a hard time understanding your motivation to think the way you do. Lemme explain..I believe that we are all moulded by our environment, but you seem to stand apart from the general consensus of your environment. Now, I have seen people hold contrarian views but those people tend to either belong to or originate from a marginalized section of society. That does not seem to be the case as far as you are concerned....(remember I asked if you were Hindu?? :) ) So, yes, I know curiosity kills the cat and all but I really wanna understand your environment to see what shapes your worldview...Indulge me... :)

If u don`t wanna post stuff here, email me at pvohra@yahoo.com

Cheers

Imran Khan should not be even considered for leadership in Pakistan simply because his Guru is that crackpot Hamid Gul. This man will do more harm to Pakistan then even BB and Nawaz Sharif combine.

tahmad #138: Exactly why do you think Imran Khan is hawkish on India? Could you point to some references from PTI.

Following is what the PTI manifesto states about Kashmir:

``Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf will strive for resolution of the Kashmir dispute on the basis of the exercise of the inherent right of the people of the state to self-determination, which was, besides, pledged to them by Pakistan and India and recognized in the resolutions of the UN Security Council. Until and unless this root cause of tensions is resolved, involving the life and future of the Kashmiri people with close affinities to the people of Pakistan, normalization of relation with India will continue to elude grasp.``

It makes a lot of common sense. I don`t see anything hawkish in this.

Other than that, I think we need to stop picking our leaders on how hawkish of dovish they are with India. We need to pick them on what they can do for Pakistan. Whether PTI is hawkish or dovish on India is less important that whether they are sincere or insincere to Pakistan.

Every leader should not be judged on how they, ``are or aren`t`` with India. Pakistan should be more important to Pakistanis.

scout #136 you ask ``why can`t we build these systems... ``

Because then we would have to get off our royal behinds, catch the next flight to Pakistan, and plan to spend the next five years of our lives working towards building education systems that empower people (or something like that, whatever you meant). In remote areas. Among people suspicious of city types. Some people are doing that. I take my hat off to them, and will contribute money but have not done more (in my personal capacity).

re: spout

{i just wouldn`t be caught dead saying it like you just did....}

...did you take that chill pill i mentioned munchkin?...seriously, what`s there to be `caught dead` about...calm down...

{how`s the eighth grade?}

...copying my lines, YET AGAIN...it`s not good to idolize people like that...

Romair #135 you write ``Imran Khan, in my opinion, falls into the same category. He has a billionaire wife, is an international celebrity and heart-throb, is a UN ambassador. He could have made millions, just through advertisements and cricket. Yet he is going around making speeches in urine-infested mohallahs, and has his personal life monitored by the likes of BB and NS. That takes courage, and I respect that. ``

All the more sad that he is too hawkish in relations with India to be trusted with power.

Raveena #132, ``...dude, it`s a famous line by some dimwit model just like you (no, not model the part, the dimwit part)...you don`t get out much, do you?....``

i know exactly what it is muffin, i just wouldn`t be caught dead saying it like you just did....

pathetic.

how`s the eighth grade?

tahmed321 #123, `` But since neither you nor I can build such systems, let us be content with contributing money and visiting orphanages, schools etc. that are run by these funds.``

why can`t we build these systems...

various replies #: One of the biggest qualities I admire about someone is their ability to jump into the arena. T. Roosevelt said it best in 1910:

``It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worthy course; who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly; so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat.``

The, above alongwith McCarthur`s Duty Honor Country speech at West Point are perhaps my two favorite quotables pieces.

Keeping this in mind, one has to admire the people living in Pakistan who are honestly trying to make a difference. It doesn`t matter what their faults are, they are still doing a hell of a lot more than people who spend most of their time criticizing them, from a distance.

One could argue that the author of this article is also, in the arena, hopefully trying to make a difference.

Imran Khan, in my opinion, falls into the same category. He has a billionaire wife, is an international celebrity and heart-throb, is a UN ambassador. He could have made millions, just through advertisements and cricket. Yet he is going around making speeches in urine-infested mohallahs, and has his personal life monitored by the likes of BB and NS. That takes courage, and I respect that.

He is not sitting on the boundaries, merely criticizing.

If a person wants to criticize Pakistani politics, as a whole, then they should at least have the courage to provide a better alternative, themselves. To earn that, they need to, at least at some level, contribute. If every single political leader is terrible, then they need to jump into the political ring themselves.

Imran Khan would make a much better PM than any of the other bozos, if for no other reason, than that he is honest and sincere, and he is not a mullah nutcase. And he has no ethnic agenda. Not only that, but his party is filled with non-feudal/non-thug dedicated people.

PML and PPP are proven thieves and urban thugs and regressive feudals. MQM and ANP are completely ethnic based. JUI and JI are hypocrites and too narrow minded. Who else is there? If this question cannot be answered then what is the point of criticizing everyone, without having the courage to join politics.

The only other decent alternative I can see is if MQM gets rid of its ethnic and militant face, and tries to become a national party.

As for being dumb, I don`t think BB, NS, Altaf Hussain, Wali Khan, Qazi etc. are genuises, either.

TI`s Kashmir agenda, as far as I know is, self-determination for Kashmiris according to their wishes. And that militancy from both sides needs to be reduced to solve the Kashmir problem, not just from one side, and that Pakistan should not bend beyond limit under unfair internaitonal pressure.

I happen to agree with all of the above.

To the best of my knowledge, from whatever I have read, Imran Khan is one of the most popular and respected Pakistanis in India (and in the UK, not to mention, in Pakistan).

Who else is there who is willing to jump into, ``the arena,`` rather than criticizing from the distance like a cynic and a coward? Any suggestions?

scout #129 you write ``i don`t think you understand what i`m saying. don`t get boggled down by words like `psyche`, just try to understand the message.``

I understand what you are saying - I agree when you say that we should do more for the poor in Pakistan. I dont agree when you say that Pakistanis as a group are less generous than any other group. And neither you nor I have the data to back our positions, and this point is not important in any case.

you write ``and just giving money to an organization and visiting it once a year is not enough....there has to be a system of direct empowerment and networking to provide education hands on.``

Agreed. But since neither you nor I can build such systems, let us be content with contributing money and visiting orphanages, schools etc. that are run by these funds.

You write ``let`s start where we can, and that is reforming individual selves``

Agreed.

That is the problem with dish washers from the West returning home trying to do business in Pakistan then screanming that its difficult!!!

Maybe you should go around the developing world and find out whats going on!!

re: spout

{oh my lord, that`s the gayest thing i`ve heard in a long time}

...dude, it`s a famous line by some dimwit model just like you (no, not model the part, the dimwit part)...you don`t get out much, do you?....

stuka:

``What is Imran Khan`s position on Kashmir?``

...the same old we`ll die but never give up kashmir...somebody needs to work up the guts to tell the ppl that our stance on kashmir is literally ruining us...

No. 126,

Ta Mr Ahmed! I`ll check it out.

Umer M

tahmed321 #124,

i don`t think you understand what i`m saying.

don`t get boggled down by words like `psyche`, just try to understand the message.

i don`t know how to phrase it differently.

but anyway, thanks for the url.... you`re right, there are non-profit organizations trying to help

Pakistanis, but my point is that there aren`t enough.

and just giving money to an organization and visiting it once a year is not enough....there has to be a system of direct empowerment and networking to provide education hands on.

about democracy, i see what you`re saying, it`s a hard thing to figure out, what should come first in Pakistan, the reform of people? or the reform of government? chicken or egg first question.

let`s start where we can, and that is reforming individual selves and others like us.

Raveena #123, ``..don`t hate me b.c. i`m beautiful...``

oh my lord, that`s the gayest thing i`ve heard in a long time

(no offense intended to all the gay people reading this, i luv u all)