Just Another BLOW-UP?

re:#183 by Navida
Yes, the website is ``hindu``. You will be offended only if you find the word ``hindu`` itself offensive. The writer N.Rajaram`s article is well researched.
Sridhar

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re: Farzana Bibi`s last few posts
F.B`s defense is very weak, especially against the arguments posted by Harimau. I still do not understand what she is ranting against. Is she willing to concede that both communities should accept the verdict of the court, whatever that may be? What is all this noise about ASI`s finding having been disclosed to the court and something about digging deeper? Pretty flimsy defense.

Meanwhile, Farzana bee may educate herself with some historical facts from the following article. It is well researched, even if the author is a die hard hindu sympathiser:

http://www.swordoftruth.com/swordoftruth/archives/byauthor/navaratnarajaram/moafaf.html
It is a pity that the muslims in India are on a confrontational mode on this issue and have no sympathies for the religious hindus for who Ayodhya is a very holy place. Muslims are only antagonising even secular hindus like me. Muslims seem to say that they support secularism when it suits them, otherwise they are happy with their own ``ostrich like attitude``, unwilling to see any other POV.
Sridhar

Ref Miss Poison Pen`s current ravings too numerous to mention by number:

Let us see who is blustering.

A French firm headed by M. Robillard conducted a ground penetrating radar survey that identified possible structures below the Babri Masjid

M. Robillard`s firm participated in the excavations.

Muslim representatives were present during the excavations by the Archaelogical Survey of India.

Artifacts with organic matter in them that could be dated by carbon-14 dating techniques were indeed subjected to such analysis to ascertain their age.

The Wakf Board`s current claim is that the structure below the Babri Masjid is compatible with a Siva Temple and so it cannot be the Ram Janma Bhumi; at least the Wakf Board is conceding the existence of a HINDU temple at the site of the Babri Masjid.

Against this, Miss Poison Pen claims that the fact that Vajpayee sent a representative to the shilanyas ceremony (installation of idols of Ram and Sita) at the site is proof enough that the ASI report is doctored to suit the government.

This is practically advanced as justification for setting off bombs among civilians in Bombay.

Miss Poison Pen can choose to answer these charges or move off to writing articles on the sorrows of the Palestinians, Chechnyans, Bosnians, etc., carefully ignoring the sufferings of the Uighurs of East Turkestan (aka Xinjiang) like Pakistanis tend to do on Chowk.

Is Miss Poison Pen claiming that M. Robillard, the Wakf Board, and its on-site representatives have all been bought off by the Vajpayee government? If so, why isn`t the payoff sufficient to get the Wakf Board to concede Ram Janma Bhumi to the Hindus?

re:178


``How come you guys have nothing to say when I start posting the facts around the ASI excavations? Are you getting tired of Miss Poison Pen`s lies?``


...because, unkal harimou, what i`m trying to get across to you has nothing to do with excavations, asi etc...

One does not need to dodge anything, though I notice that most of the points I have clarified again in #169, 170 have been ignored.

Re. ASI, I had stated the following in #22:
``When that box was being carried to the courts, the TV news already mentioned that BOTH sides had got their legal cells ready to counter the ASI report.``

``The ASI’s findings have already been disclosed to the courts, which is how we know that they dug deeper. This is being contested by the Muslim Personal Law Board because there were legal provisions as to the dimensions. Please check out the old reports where the ASI had clearly stated that there seemed to be no sign of a temple. Why did it change its version? Why were Muslim organisations represented only when they insisted?``

``It was the Kanchi Shankaracharya who changed his tune after so much publicity about his mediation. Therefore, the Hindus (at least their leadership) are not ready for the verdict either.``

Post #120 and the rejected post revealed the mindset, and to flaunt it as `truth` takes some darned twisted idea of fearlessness.

The second half of #177 is in keeping with the, as always, silly tradition.

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For the rest...I think you are mature enough to find out the truth for yourselves. Who feeds you lies is for you to see, and depends to a great extent on your preconceived notions as much as it does to facts.

Ref Miss Poison Pen #176

I notice you are dodging the fact that ALL parties to the Ayodhya dispute were on hand witnessing the excavations by the Archaelogical Survey of India. All artifacts were found in the presence of Muslim representatives. So why do you continue to insist that the ASI report was altered to please the government of Vajpayee?

You don`t like facts that get in your way, do you? Why don`t you just say so instead of shedding crocodile tears here on Chowk for Indian Muslims? If you would spend your time, instead of writing bogus articles on Chowk (why? do you hope to get married to a Pakistani? Ha, ha, ha!) doing something for your local neighborhood Muslims that might alleviate their problems. Bur then, in your neighborhood I am sure there aren`t any Muslims who need help. Or Hindus, or Christians.

Ref Temporal, Wholly-Precious-You, nb, Subroto, and Others:

How come you guys have nothing to say when I start posting the facts around the ASI excavations? Are you getting tired of Miss Poison Pen`s lies?

#175:
Oh dear, how much it matters to explain yourself to a Pakistani than to prove the accusations against an Indian Muslim. Btw, did not know Chowk harboured Islamist thugs who would get one the ``cheap popularity``. The hollow bluster remains...

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And the Shiv Sena is feting the UP bhaiyya (whatever happened to Mumbai for Maharashtrians?) taxi driver Pandey, for standing up and giving his eye-witness account...it must be pointed out that three days after the blasts, his sons were on TV complaining that no one had informed them about their father`s whereabouts and later refused to let them meet him; they were worried while he was in safe police hands.

# 148 Harimau ``Now this. Does Farzana ask for punishment of the guilty? No. Does temporal, Urstruly, Stuka, Subroto, anuradha, nb,, godot, etc. ask for punishment for the guilty? NO! Let me be emphatic: NO FRIKKING WAY! ``

yo enna chami chollrey ... of course I want the guilty to be punished... only I didn`t think I needed to spell that out.

Ref Wholly-Precious-You #171

[...sigh...why do i even try?...]

Because you KNOW that you will get the complete story from me.

Did Miss Poison Pen even mention the fact that the excavations at Ayodhya were conducted in the presence of representatives from all parties to the dispute? Did Miss Poison Pen mention that where feasible carbon-dating techniques were used to identify the dates of artifacts found at the site? (This information from an article By Mr. Nagasamy, Director of the Tamil Nadu Archaelogy Dept.)

Miss Poison Pen would also like everyone to conveniently forget the fact that, in tracing the provenance of a Nataraja idol unearthed in Tanjore district in Tamil Nadu that was found in a mound and spirited away to London and sold there, the courts in the UK have upheld the claim that even if a single stone representing the temple has been found where the idol was found, that was sufficient evidence to prove the continuity of ownership and ordered that the idol be returned to India. Apply that logic to Babri Masjid.

It is easy to win cheap popularity on Chowk by kissing up to Islamist thugs; the task is easier and all the more seen to be courageous when a Muslima seemingly fights against perceived Hindu injustice in a Hindu-majority country. That is all Miss Poison Pen does.

I have not hesitated to admit that Muslims have a tough time in India, particularly in the North. But then, the average UP or Bihari Bhaiyya has a tough time no matter what his religion is. But to claim misery is the sole property of Indian Muslims, Miss Poison Pen distorts reality to gain cheap popularity.

Ref Miss Poison Pen #169 and 170

Stop raving like a lunatic.

PS. It is another 3 days to the Full Moon (or, is it the New Moon?).

and now, members of the Gujarat muslim revenge group (indoctrinatied by the LeT) have been arrested for the blasts.
So much for wild speculations.

re: #162

...sigh...why do i even try?...

Oh what a cop-out…

Now, now, why are some people sucking up to the Pakistanis? The last time when I questioned someone about the NRI’s right to speak up for Indians I got a different response from the one given to a Pakistani…there was so much reasonableness there and a complete volte face. And here we have an apology to a Pakistani because, “My apologies for inadvertently including you in the crowd. You do stand out from it.” He has to. He is not Indian and as one of the posts claimed this was about Indian Islamist thugs (m’lord, please note: all Islamists are Muslim, not all Muslims are Islamists), not Pakistani. But there is so much confusion…perhaps internet cafes cause it, because the late lamented rejected post did mention, “we don`t have to care for her (FV’s) opinion or that of the Pakistani interactors”. Then why were they mentioned. Any of them?

As I said in post #78, “It is sick that an article on such a subject is being judged along the lines of Indian abuse vs Pakistani rahs. People with sense/nonsense have made observations, irrespective of their nationality or religious moorings. And for those who have been quoting temporal’s words that are a “healing touch”, please read carefully: “...there can be no justification of any deliberate violent act against civilians...none whatsoever...be they by individuals, organizations or states...” OR STATES. Get it?”

Therefore, when I gun for Modi, it is because there is a difference between the Establishment as murderers and murderers as murderers. Besides, despite all the innuendoes, no one has been able to point out ONE statement where I have justified the blasts. Again, I had said, “Why only the Muslims? Have I not been told elsewhere that 30 % of those dead are Muslims? So, who is making it into a Hindu-Muslim issue? And if it is Muslims behind this act (something I do not rule out), then why would they do that? On that particular day? These sort of expressions confirm what I stated: That Muslims have to bear the onus whether they are killed or Hindus are killed.”

[It is just that I seem to be the ONLY Indian to shout out loud that ``enough is enough``. Those of you who are not outraged by random acts of violence can always move to Karachi and attend Friday services at a Shia mosque or Imambara.]

I said ‘enough is enough’ long ago…and I live in India all the time. Those not outraged by other random acts of violence (revenge is justified and the political party rules not only in the State but the Centre too, and who cares for those token apologies when you speak with a forked tongue about other sorts of revenge #120?) and stupidity (the PM sends a government official for the shilanyas at Ayodhya ignoring the Supreme Court orders, for those with short memories), there is an option: Nepal. There you can fight the Maoists.

[All the rubbish about the Uniform Civil Code to boot in this article. Why doesn`t Wonder-Woman demand criminal justice a la the Sharia? Did she call for public beheading of those found guilty? No. Why not? Because she knows damn well that the perpetrators are Islamic thugs, that`s why. But it is her ISLAMIC duty to support an Islamic cause no matter how outrageous the actions might be.]

My comments about UCC become rubbish because it is a bitter pill to swallow: “Do the Muslims want to hold on to a Personal Law for their own gains? I will go along with the poet Hassan Kamal that the Muslims should agree to a blueprint regarding a uniform civil code; as he said, the other minorities too have grouses against it but conveniently let the Muslims do the shouting, and the Hindus will suffer as well. This is the time for Muslims to stop being ostriches, and they might just find that others are burying their heads in the sand.”

Re. the Shariah, have I EVER supported it? Find one post of mine that says so or even implies it. If it is Shariah laws that Indians want, then we may not have any government left, except heads rolling in Parliament, quite literally. For, who does not have blood on their hands?

So quit this baloney.

[The time has come to ring Mahim with tanks and impose a 60-day 34-hours-a-day curfew. Nobody gets out or into this area no matter what the emergency is. Cut off water and electricity to the area. Let the frikking idiots in skullcaps with RDX in their hands stew for 60 days -- one for each person killed in the explosions -- in their own urine and excrement.

Let us see if there is another bomb blast in Bombay after that. If there is, repeat the experiment.

Time to reclaim Krishna Janma Bhumi. Tear down the Aurangzeb Mosque in Mathura. Time to re-build the Ram Temple in Ayodhya. Let us find out wheteher the Islamist thugs have more RDX or we in India have more mosques that we can tear down.

Jay used to call for the Iraquisation of Pakistan. What we need is the (Warsaw) ghettoization of Mahim, Bycullah and other Muslim-dominated areas in Bombay. That ought to teach the bums a lesson. It will have the additional benefit of reducing crime by 80% immediately.

Stop apologizing for being Hindus.]...italics mine)

Obviously this has nothing to do with Muslims having to prove their loyalty. It is only about cracking a huge wind-breaking joke.

Btw, no one has asked Hindus to apologise for being Hindus. Unless they feel the need to bring out their Muslim drivers for an airing or force their tear-ducts to drop a few salty drops or they wish to be the new messiahs of bluster. And someone was telling someone to prove fearlessness...look into the mirror.