To Kill the Mockingbird

For an Indian with little or no sense of American history and cultural heritage, it is often very easy to confuse the Ivy League as a formal sports conference with its history and indeed the original sports league - the first college football game was between Princeton and Rutgers (Ivy till formal organization of the sports body in 1954) ...

In any event those who wish to read more about the originb

http://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0101_Christians_Started_I.html


How Christians Started the Ivy League

..Columbia, William and Mary, Rutgers, Brown & UPenn

The first president of New York`s Columbia University, first known as ``King`s College,`` at one time served as a missionary to America under the English-based ``Society for the Propagation of the Gospel in Foreign Parts.`` The Church of England established the College of William and Mary, near today`s colonial Williamsburg. Dutch Reformed revivalists founded Queen`s College (later Rutgers University) in New Jersey. Brown University originated with the Baptist churches scattered on the Atlantic seaboard. With the exception of the University of Pennsylvania, every collegiate institution founded in the colonies prior to the Revolutionary War was established by some branch of the Christian Church.

Even at UPenn, however, an evangelist played a prominent part. When Philadelphia churches denied revivalist George Whitefield access to their pulpits, forcing him to preach in the open, some of Whitefield`s admirers, among them Benjamin Franklin, decided to erect a building to accommodate the great crowds that wanted to hear him. The structure they built became the first building of what is now the University of Pennsylvania, and a statue of Whitefield stands prominently on that campus today.

Though the Ivy League schools eventually turned secular, they fed into the mainstream of society in those earlier days a great army of graduates who could claim Jesus Christ as personal Savior and Lord, and who left a strong impact on our nation. Their presidents and their faculties helped to set a high spiritual tone, and at times their campuses in turn felt the impact of revival. The educators of early America understood that the moral climate of its schools, colleges and universities would shape its future generations, and could ultimately decide the course of the nation.

Reprinted from The Rebirth of America, published by the Arthur S. DeMoss Foundation.


..

From wikipedia...

The Ivies have been competing in sports as long as intercollegiate sports have existed in the United States. Boat clubs from Harvard and Yale met in the first sporting event held between students of two U.S. colleges on Lake Winnipesaukee, New Hampshire, in 1852. As an informal football league, the Ivy League dates from 1900 when Yale took the conference championship with a 5-0 record. For many years Army (the United States Military Academy), Navy (the United States Naval Academy), and to a lesser extent Rutgers were considered members, but dropped out shortly before formal organization. For instance, Army traditionally had a rivalry with Yale, which some assert is set to resume in the next few years, and Rutgers had rivalries with Princeton and Columbia, which continue today in sports other than football

re:#126 by Maharana
An interesting post. The definition that Faruk gave of Hinduism can be applied to Spirituality itself.
As you rightly said, Hinduism is a broad spectrum from Tribal religion (with assorted Gods, animal sacrifices etc) to the highest form espoused in Advaita.

Advaita, as taught by Adi Sankara (and brought to light in this century by Ramana Maharishi) i believe is the pinnacle of Hindu spiritual thought. Advaita basically says that we are inseperable from God. It does not view God as seperate from humans. The jivatman (or soul inside human body) is thought of as an extension of the Paramatman. So, really speaking, we are all divine beings but are not aware because of our Ego, and the fact that we have lost touch with out inner divinity. This is symbolically described in Bible as Fall of Man (a Symbolism lost on the Christian world that has taken it to mean literally).
All the yogic sadhanas that we hear about (the Japas, various kinds of meditations etc) are attempts to establish contact with our ``inner divinity``.
Guatama became a ``buddha`` (or enlightened) when he established that contact. He was trying to wean the population of the time away from tiresome Vedic Rituals and practice of extreme self-deprivation that had come to take hold during that time. He taught a middle path. He did not speak about God directly. This fact has given rise to a lot of confusion. In a famous dialogue with one of his disciples, who asked him if God existed, he says ``Did i say that?``. The disciple, excitedly asks him ``you mean God does not exist?``, Buddha replies ``Did i say that ?``. This is a famous dialogue that has been interpreted in many ways by Buddhists and others. Buddhism became a Atheistic religion but Buddha never denied God! The reality was that, by establishing that contact with his Inner Self, he became one with God. He could say he was God himself but how was he to explain this to the novices who were just at the beginning of spiritual journey. Jesus Christ, because he was one with God, could claim he was Son of God and at other times, God himself, just like a wave in an ocean can say it is seperate from Ocean as well as a part of it.

In Advaita, i see Hinduism getting away from ritualistic process that has come to dominate it and go to the very essence of divinity. Advaita is not Hindu religion. It is the Truth.
Sridhar

Faruk # 125,

It would be difficult for anyone to pinpoint any specifics about the objective of Hinduism. You can merely consider it as intellectual, moral and spiritual freedom to profess one`s desire for union with truth at best. At worst, you can consider it a collection of common people`s way of worshipping the divine in any way they want to. These may include animal sacricfice at one end of the spectrum to appease god, and a strict enquiry into self knowledge by intellectual means at the other extreme.
My ``best`` and ``worst`` are themselves subjective and you`ll find no labelling of any method being good or bad espoused anywhere in this culture. From what little i know, i may dare to summarize it as ``an enquiry of truth``. If it leads you to believe in the non-existence of god, so be it. The vice versa is true as well.
As an extension to this culture you`ll find buddhism going a step further and declaring the uselessness of finding God. Gautam Buddha was more interested in finding a way to end all human miseries in a permanent way. Hence his eightfold path to nirvana ( or freedom from earthly bondage). You`ll find the same concept in Upanishads and Bhagvad geeta, though worded differently. Instead of Nirvana you have ``Mukti``.
In the olden times at least ,our culture can be considered to be devoid of religion. Mind you, the translation of the word ``Religion`` to ``Dharma`` is a modern one. Dharma only meant social duties in earlier days. However, constant inter-mingling with the victorious muslim invaders put them in a defensive position. The muslims and christians found no sign of a god sent message of common code/ laws existing in the sub-continent. It must have been a strange situation for all communities. One falling under the camp of ``everything is known and revealed to us``, the other being `` to know it, you must seek it yourself``. IMO this intermingling of faiths produced a long and arduous journey of the locals to define themselves as well with a ``religion``. Unfortuantely, as i see it, organizing spiritual quest leads to RSS, VHP and related fools. As you yourslef well know even a fool can tell you there is nothing spiritual about them. Merely an attempt to form a cohesive and exclusionary religion.
I`ve rambled on enough. So, i`ll sign off now...

Adios

Re : Ferozk #120
Here is a description of Hinduism that I heard from Nafisa Ali some 9 years ago and it has stayed with me. “Hinduism is the search of your god. You are free to define your god and your search. “ She elaborated that you could you could find god in nature, a sprit, a divine being, a force or something else that appeals to you or you might just find the search more spiritually satisfying.

Ajeet, Maharana any comments ?

Regards,


Faruk

Jay117

A praise for India should not be construed as an automatic indicment of Pakistan. Your greatness lies in your pathological concern for the well-being of Pakistan. My only worry is that you may not lose your health over it. Life is sacred--even yours.

Kerala is great. All of south India is great. Historians have written extensively of its virtues.
Contrasting it with Pakistan only ruins your case.

My knowledge is pathetic on many other subjects too--e.g; your pathological condition.

Ferozk, # 120

`Hinduism considers itself to be a monothestic religion because it believes in the oneness of the universe and considers all its gods to be the creation of the same universe. `

The quote that you have cited has a problem. The writer in effort to compare the world religions, has tried to compartmentalise Hinduism. You can`t compare Hinduism with any other religion, because it does not have any standard religious dogma. It is a amalgamation of hundreds of different religious philosophies often contradictory to each other. So one can read what ever one wants in this religion. Whether you are an arya smaji or jain or sanatni or many other things you are still a hindu. It would have amalgamated Islam too if Islam did not have the exclusive clauze.

So yes Hinduism can be a monothestic religion while being serving 33,00,00,000 different Gods.

Ferozk #120

[quote]
I came across this while reading about Hinduism, as a comparative religion, and would like any comments/feedback, which might explain this more. I am asking this, because it is a part of the history text, which I teach my students. The text book, which is an American text book for grade nine world history did not fully explain this statement. I am hoping that some can shed some more light on it, so I can explain this to my students.
[end-quote]

Feroz,

asian (e.g., taoism) and indic traditions are foundationally different from the abrahamanic religions. This is the first thing to understand. Terms like Monotheism and Polytheism arise primarily from the Abrahamanic tradition. If you look at hinduism, buddhism, jainism. sikhism etc. these terms are really not sensible. It is like trying to find where the lungs of a fish lie. These are completely different approaches to faith; indeed, I would prefer to call them faith traditions rather than religions.

Regrettably all of this has been muddled by contemporary usage. The other day I read some ignoramus refer to the Sikh ``prophets`` (i.e. Gurus). There is no such thing as a prophet in any indic tradition.

I realize this doesn`t help you much in a practical way. There are several good introductory texts now available that explain indic ways of seeing things. Diance Eck`s books on Religion are a good start (e.g. Darshan). There is also an australian hindu who has written good introductory texts that are sensitive to the native vocabulary of indic traditions. Regrettably his name escapes me at this time.

Ferozek # 120,

Reading a typical orthodox historian`s views we all might be tempted to believe that Abraham was the first monotheist in the world. Actually several cultures before that specially in India and china believed in a single divine being, be it Tao, Brahman, Purusha, Parmatman, Ishwara etc.
If I may provide a gist of some scriptures in this regard, it could be following.
Gods are not the ultimate truth in themselves, but mere symbols to aid a yogi reach the fountainhead. And further, a translation from a famous vedic saying `` Truth/God is one, yet the wise know it by many names``.
The plethora of gods is a human creation according to Sanatan dharma or bhagvada dharma (derogately called hinduism by outsiders). Actually the flavor of Hinduism is part Agnostic too. The highest human ideal as is claimed by many such sects is to seek the truth.
Which ofcourse brings to fore that, truth cannot and is not contained in merely any temple, book, etc.
So the staement that Hinduism considers itself to be a monotheistic religion is wrong. As the fact is that it is a monotheistic culture allowing people to worship the one in any form they like. Heck !! It could even be a tree.

Hope that partly satisfies your question (?) perhaps.

Adios

re: Indians

Leaving Kashmir aside for a while, I have a question and would appreciate an answer if possible.

Hinduism considers itself to be a monothestic religion because it believes in the oneness of the universe and considers all its gods to be the creation of the same universe.

I came across this while reading about Hinduism, as a comparative religion, and would like any comments/feedback, which might explain this more. I am asking this, because it is a part of the history text, which I teach my students. The text book, which is an American text book for grade nine world history did not fully explain this statement. I am hoping that some can shed some more light on it, so I can explain this to my students.

Thanks!

Ciao

Your nukes, our nukes, both blow high,
At the most, 15 million die?

Together we can crank back people in that number,
With a bit of effort in a year or under.

What matters, in my opinion,
Is that, you can`t eat religion.

(Concept inspired by Ahmed Madani)

Mantolives 103

Wow !!!

I thought I had brilliant idea of where part of Indian nukes should be stored. The best place for them I joked would be in Kashmir. Because in order to take out Indian nukes you pakistanis would have to destroy the Kashmir Valley. The ``core`` problem!!!

However your contention that ISI wants to concentrate the Indian Army to nuke them is so ridiculous. Why would ISI want to concentrate the Indian Army in kashmir and then nuke them. I guess this shows how much you guys like Kashmir. If you can`t have it then nuke it.

echoo # 107

Meriting Attention
Maharashtra`s Muslim Schools are claiming top scores in public exams
M. H. Lakdawala
Mumbai: Just a couple of years ago, one had to search for even one Muslim name on the merit lists. Since 1998, Muslim students are appearing regularly on the merit list in Maharashtra. They have topped in BA., Higher Secondary School Certificate (HSC) and secondary School Certificate (SSC) examinations. ``

You the pathetic has no idea about the indian education system. All muslim schools are not madrassas. They admit people of all religion. Near my place in kerala, the top most school is a muslim school, they admit students based on entrance test, only 10 percent seats are alocated based on islam. They have learned long ago that the nemae of the school depends on its productas, and all lousy students, but all muslims will do harm to the school. Almost all of the teachers are hindus, the school charges high fees which in any case most muslims cannot afford. In fact my cousins studied in that school, and the facilities are outstanding.

{Maharashtra`s Muslim Schools are claiming top scores in public exams }


...so things aren`t so bad for muslims in india after all...

Ironman # 114

Thank you for your comment. Let us agree to disagree on this issue.

I think everyone must have a choice as to his belief. Majority of the mankind has come to this conclusion after centuries of bitter experience of exploitation of common man in the name of God or faith.

nazarhayatkhan,

``Every one has the right to have his own faith and belief``


Is that the best you can do? A giant leap of thought.

I hate to ask, but would you like to do a simple experiment. Make a list of 10 father-child pairs you know. Ask each person what their favorite color is. Count how many father-child pairs like the SAME color.

Now do the same test about their religions...and let us know what you find.
(Off course, you say, you knew this all along.)


There is NO `choice` or `right` in the matter of religion/faith/belief, my friend.

Why isn`t this obvious to you? Deep waters here?

re:#84 by soysauce
You say madrassas only fill a vaccum. That is absurd as far as madrassas in Pak are concerned. They are regularly churning out hatred filled, highly indoctrinated specimens who are taught not just Qoran but also that 72 virgins are there for their taking if they participate in Jehad. Need i post a number of articles that have been regularly appearing in International newspapers?
Sridhar