O Karachi. Part II

nadeenkhan,

There was one educated young pakistani on chowk, ylh, his only claim to fame was that his family could be traced to the that of the man himself. IT is this backward looking mind set that you have shown in your post.

Heir to the thrown of chola kingdom is a smal farmer in the vacinity of the great temple his forefathers built. The moghul decendant is if I remeber correctly is in the slums of calcutta, We care a s$$hit for the past, while in pakistan even the US educated posts and paosts about this family lineage.
In pakistan, there are ID cards and one important element there is the family linkages. You are doomed in the past, in a murderous desert history replication efforts in the times of global connectivity.

Instead of talking about the lineage of nehrue and gandhi, find out the mindset of the military the elite and the educated of pakistan who legalised honour killings. You pathetic, find out the family leneage of the killers of samial slawar, find out the family backgorund of all of the 75 percent of the ELECTED legislators of miangi govt who refused to condemn the killing of samia.
nadeenkhan you make me sick.

Jay:

The Pakistani offices reflect AJk as an extension of Pakistani border and not ``the border` whereas India is bent upon claiming Kashmir as its integral part simply because the All Mighty Nehru was a Kashmiri..Let me enlighted you about Kashmiris...they migrated to Punjab, Harayana included, in 1879 owing to the shortage of labore in Punjab following the defeat of Sikhs at the hands of East India Company...Kashmiris have been listed as a caste by Sir Denzill Ibbeston, nothing more and nothing less...they were engaged to clear the ruins of Lahore to make way for the splendid buildings that were to be added to Lahore`s skyline...

Let me take this oppurtunity to tell u idealistic Hindus, please find who Gandhi was? Gandhi as far as I know is a Jat sept, most of whom embraced Islam following Mahmood Ghazniv`s conquuest of India.. Mahatam Gandhi was one of the few Hindyu families who did not embrace Isalm and decided to take a trip ashore...a taboo which defied Hindu teachings.. No Hindu was ever allowed to take a trip overseas as it would reduce him or her to a lesser being...Sudra if you please. That is why no Hindu empire and even the Mogul empire had a strong navy to fight the invading Westerners...as recent as yesterday, Sindhis on either side of the border would balk every time they crossed Indus, stating that they have been rendered ``pardesi`` (foreigner)

pardaisi,

You are unbelievable, in any case thanks for remebering one Zegna suit post. That was more than 20 years ago. now I have swapped it for ``thorthu mundu``, a kind of a handloom dhoti to watch the coconuts grow.

I usually do not respond to individual posts, because it gets into an egoistic encounter which benefits no one. I have said this several times before, unlike the zegna post, chowk is a market place of ideas, take it or leave it. That is why all of the pakistani posts about personnel invectives against me make no sense. I am not egoistically involved in the posts, they are simply ideas, I put it in various contexts, situations, but the ideas are essentially same.

What could be of some help to the interactors could be some posts about the reality of pakistan. To give an example, only one poster has ever said that several temples in pakistan were destroyed in response to the babri masjid distruction. Only kuldip nayyar ever mentioned about the posters all over pakistan about jihad and collections in the elitists area mosques for jihad.
Even any facual events, to support religious toleraence in pakistan, any one who dares to say ``jihad is not killing of kafirs``. Pardaisi, these are important, at some level pakistanis have to accept that killing of kafirs cannot be a religious must, then and then only the jihadists from pakistan that roam the world, kashmir to chechniya to philippines to the US will stop.
paradaisi, you cannot deny the fact, number 3 in alquida was found in the house of a major of the pak army. Ideas are important, they mould human behaviour.

talk2me

I was watching a documentary the other day, it says that on the walls of most offices in pakistan, there is a map of the muslim world, the indian ocean marked, ``muslim ocean``. Then there is another all green world map, all in green, when islam takes over the world.

I used to wonder when the so called educated of pakistan, the tahmeds, claim that islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. It should be th imact of the maps from early childhood.
Like how the animal slaughters in family homes desensitise the future jihadists about blood and gory deaths, it should be the map that guides the minds of tahmeds.

UPDATE FOR PAKISTANIS

India has announced that 10,000 more tropos will be sento to kashmir. That should make the paki estimates of indian troops at 710,000 in kashmir.

#19

you are absolutely right but......there is no point in attacking Jay-gay, he does not respond well to reasons under Prozac therapy.

I understand others have tried that in the past with little luck he is like a broken record but that does not mean you should not (I do for one).

He seldom interacts, he only wants to say what he wants to and would not entertain your points.

He probably works for shiv sena or some other Hindu extremist organization and feels good wearing Zegna with blood money.

jay,
what about shiv sena spreading shit against muslims in india. you said about harrapa but u forgot the babri masjid which was destroyed by 1000s of SHIV SENA and VHP mens and the police and other law making agencies just relaxed and watched the whole seen calmly taking no action against any one. Not because of the strength of people but just because they were ordered by there leaders, like advani, to not take any action against any one. And i think you also forgot the recent gujrat riots emerging after an accident, as all the Human rights organisations said and infact ur own government accepted it that it was an accident. But what was happened was a slap on the face of so called seculer india. 1000,s of people died most of them were muslims and many other were homeless due to the fear of some nasty hindu maniacs willing to kill any one who is muslim. And what about the law your supreme court has passed to stop celebrating bakra eid just because cows are sacred to hindus. Being a muslim i dont want to live in india ever as muslims there cant even celebrate their religious day independently. this list can go on and on and on .........

#17 by moulabux on June 6, 2003 7:18am PT
Mr. Kazi,

Your article brought back more than a few poignant memories. Quite a few of these names have been part of my father`s ramblings.

Zakir unfortunately went into coma 10 years ago after coming down with chicken pox followed by complications with pnemonia. Subak did go into construction and built the building behind Cash & Carry supermarket. I think it is called Ashiana. Nazir Shaikh suffered from a stroke and has partially recovered. I do not recall the name Abu Talib Dada.

I know Nazir Shaikh and Subak through my father, but both Zakir and Junaid Dada were friends of mine.

By the way what is your father`s name?

Mr. Kazi,

Your article brought back more than a few poignant memories. Quite a few of these names have been part of my father`s ramblings.

Junaid Dada is still around. He still owns a Chevrolet, which once belonged to Zakir Dada. He is still a good-for-nothing drunkard. Subuk Majeed is into the construction business. Nazir Shaikh is a regular at Karachi Gymkhana, although not being a member, and is suffering from some sort of paralysis.

Another noteworthy car owner of those times was Abu Talib Dada, who also had a Ford Thunderbird, an Alpha Romeo, a few Mercedeses`s, which are all safely standing in his garages.

If you want to trace `em, I can help.

Cheers.

you are lucky enough to have a passion as that in a country where forty percent people cannot even afford two square meals per day and about thirty five percent are literate enough to write their own names.

God bless you.

Have a nice life.

Jay,

All of us have something to be ashamed of (read about India at amnesty.org) but you chose to concentrate only on one and only one thing i-e Pakistan.

I have thanked you in the past for being so critical of Pakistan that eventually it is helping us correct our self and I feel that you are becoming an asset to Pakistani community.

Who would thought venom would turn into medicine but again history is full of stories like that & I am sure you can relate to that.

Jay don`t leave us, keep on criticizing and we will emerge as one powerful nation someday.

One day all chowkies will be thankful to you.

Also, you use word ``ilks`` to much and too often - use something else.


PS- As usuall I am sure you will ignore this post but as long as you can read it in your Zegna suite and pass this on to your org. it would be fine.
BTW- How is the therapy going ?

The most inequitous and shaming and downright menacing amendment was made by Zia in 1986 in the form of Section 295-C added to the PPC: ``Use of derogatory remarks, etc, in respect of the Holy Prophet: Whoever by words, either spoken or by visible representation, or by any imputation, innuendo, or insinuation, directly or indirectly, defiles the sacred name of the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him), shall be punished with death, or imprisonment for life, and shall also be liable to fine.`` Now, liberal judges, who are an endangered species in the Pakistan of today, would be able to construe this in a strict manner. But it does not happen.

........

Many lawyers and members of the lower judiciary exhibit open bias against those charged under Section 295-C and local lawyers often refuse to take up blasphemy cases. Trials are invariably highly disorderly and the courts are often packed with the local clergy and their illiterate brainwashed followers all baying for the blood of the accused.

me by the thinking few and internationally by those who held them in abhorrence. But what did the general do? On the advice of those who misadvise him too often, within days he backtracked and cancelled the proposed amendments. Despite the excuses given, this was inexcusable and he cannot be forgiven for this particular sin of commission and omission. He surely has the courage and time to redeem the wrong.

So, in 2002, with a war being waged against terrorism, in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, as records the AI Report, ``several men were sentenced to death for blasphemy, and others accused of blasphemy were killed, some in circumstances suggesting official complicity or acquiescence in the killings.`` One man sentenced to death was later found to be a lunatic. This is quite usual, as it is never taken into account by the courts that no sane man, knowing the consequences, would even contemplate blasphemy.

In June last year a prisoner jailed and sentenced to death for blasphemy was shot dead in jail and that was the end of the matter. In July, a man who had been sentenced to death for blasphemy, and freed on bail because of his mental state, was stoned to death by a mob on the call of a local Muslim cleric. The police remained inactive

/////////
Shazad, as you sit reflecting about the large cars of the yester years , think also of the days when blasphemy laws were not there. Read the above article, hold your head in shame, and reflect on the priorities in your life, think what it means to be killed, alittle different from being run over by a 4 ton buick, even a studebaker. You have scraped the bottom of the barrel of chowk relevance.

As far as I know hardly any non-muslim is killed in Karachi because he or she is non-muslim. Most of the innocent deaths on the streets of Karachi are due to an increase in crime and gang wars between various political groups. The political groups may be ethnic or religious in nature, but at the end of the day, it is more of a power struggle than anything else. It is primarily the failure of law enforcement.

Even at the time of partition, there were almost no Hindus killed in Karachi or for that matter in all of Sindh and I believe this to be true for NWFP and Balauchistan as well. Most of the ethnic killings happened in provinces that are a part of India or in the Punjab.

farook and others

Shazad is pakistani nero carassing the dreams of yester years in the back seat of cadillac when the dead bodies are piling up in the streets of karachi, when only employment on the increase is begging. He more than any other pakistani needs a bashing, my alocated function on chowk, and i would be derelict in my duty if he doesnot get it better than tahmed.
The ilks of shahzad are trying to divert the paki minds of the reality of today, trying to potray a never existed past of a good old days of an islamic pakistan.

Now my dear friend, take it from me, Harappa has not been listed as a unesco world heritage site, and you know the reason, it is a hindu past, it is not an islamic past. A person in pakistan of today remnescing the back seat of the cadilac, he is worse than the worst mullah who dreams of the kalifait. He deserves more contempt than the educated tahmde who accepts that jihad is killing of kafirs.

#4 by jay on June 3, 2003 7:28am PT

This guy has got a bakrid and offal fixation. this is not the first time he has brought it up..

Did you guys also have motorcyles? Lately some of my friends have been buying and restoring old Motorcycles I ffound them facinating.

However that must have been an expensicve passion the preserve of the rich and elite.

Are there any pakistanis from poor or middle class and non-fedual and non-military backround on chowk I would like to hear of their experiences in pakistan too.

# 5 and # 6...pakfin and padesi....very well said.....inertia only builds gloom and a sense of despondency (jay)