Two Poems

Re: Zahra, 34

:)

Look forward to a discussion with you...if not on this board then maybe on some other...

Cheers!

Go (.) Now you are talking! You are making a few assumptions and they are indeed worth addressing. I would love to look into this topic in depth, but I am multi-tasking and have too many things on my plate to address. I am divided into 6 Zahras at this time and I am thanking God for granting me energy way beyond my capacity:) I will come back to this later when time permits and I am less exhausted. Exhaustion can have its own side-effects -

a) reading and/or writing upside down
b) not being able to utilize your mental faculties to the best of your capabilities
c) saying X meaning Y
d) losing the battle in verbal discourses (uff, too much discomfort for an egoist!!!)

:)

I do not like to leave constructive debates open ended or without a closure so just wanted to give you heads up that I will communicate back on this board in the next few weeks (2-3).

Also, not everyone on Chowk has a tendency to philosophize simple matters of life. The writer may have written an article for fun sake or for light hearted reading, but the reader may take it differently due to his/her outlook. Unfortunately, I do have a tendency to over-analyze, as one friend sums up. But fortunately/unfortunately, I do have an eye for substance and matters that should be well understood to acquire a better understanding of life. It`s just that I need to put 2+2 together in this picture. I am having slight difficulty in doing so. Every time, I have attempted to come up with the basic math(a subject I have always excelled at) I am getting different answers. Once, I am able to find 2+2 = 4, I will be content :)

So, the writer should not become defensive thinking that they are being put on the spot. It`s just that he is up against an ``ever-evolving`` reader!

Rest Later,

Regards.

Re: Zahra, 32

Zahra, your argument on “happiness” hinges on one huge assumption: those who are “happy” and “live happily after” cannot empathize with suffering and darkness. I certainly don’t agree with that.

There’s absolutely no contradiction between the poem and me. The poem is written from Barabbas’ perspective. In it, I’m Barabbas, not Godot the writer. Those writers who become their own bleak characters in their writings does not imply they are not happy or content in their own personal lives. Actors are a very good example of that.

I still don’t see a need for a third poem. To me, again, the objective is reached in the second poem. What I find interesting is that I see it and you don’t. I think we have reached an end on this one.

You are incorrect in saying that I do not want people to delve into the poem, changing directions and distracting them. I am very clear of the point of view from which the poems are written, and welcomed those who interpreted them differently. Any poem, especially the obscure ones, is open to various interpretations and could be seen from different angles, none of which could necessarily be wrong.

I totally agree with you that happiness is contentment and vice versa.

I do not agree with you at all that “happiness is a shallow emotion”. To me, happiness is a state of being, not an emotion. However, if by “happiness” you mean a fleeting, ecstatic emotion…well, that’s different…

No, not your two cents…”happiness” is an important discussion…I don’t know anyone who doesn’t want to be “happy”…yet not many are…


Re: Tahmed, 31

hehehehe…I laugh every time when I see Omar Sharif trying to be so serious in Dr. Zhivago, with his mustache and all…maybe Moin Akhtar should’ve been selected for that role…he’s little more serious…

Go. : Ok. But I do not know how true is your assertion on happily ever after...I agree with reaching that state of mind, but state of mind is one thing and applying that to reality is another. If the state of mind has reached its peak of ``living happily ever after`` then it needs to produce less darkness and more brightness, provided that`s the ultimate.

There is a contradiction in what you are saying in the 2nd para to me and what your poem is stating. I still insist that there is a need for a 3rd poem for you to reach your true objective depending on what it is. In an ambiguous scenario like this, you can easily change your objective depending on your comfort level. For example, if you do not want someone to delve into this poem, you can distract your reader and you will. If you want your reader to take the other direction, you will engage your reader.

I wanted to jot down my above thoughts first and then come to your point of ``happy`` in quotes. True, the definition is very subjective. As a child and an adult, I have always leaned towards this emotion and have always been looked up to for exuberance and life, but over the course of my own growth and evolution I have taken another path...with happiness there should be contentment. And, as a person we need to take a step back and realize that vs. going out for seeking the next happiness. One after the other. Happiness by itself is a shallow emotion. With any kind of activity there should be some impact. Like if you pray that should comfort your spirit since that`s your communication link to God. If you eat, your system should feel content by being filled up with the necessary elements for survival....many more examples can be highlighted.

I agree with you on the extension theory to some extent, but it`s not that clear cut.

Hope I made some sense.

Just my two cents.



Tahmed: You are way too infatuated with Kinnaird. If you ever happen to have a daughter, probably you should send her to Kinnaird to get over your craze. Or on your next trip to Pakistan, take a day or two off and just sit outside the University(since the college has been promoted to a university now) and revive your old days(in case they ever had any atatchment with the walls, bricks, trees and lawns of Kinnaird...oh not to mention some old memories...).

godot #30 Omar Sharif funny?? Surely you jest. Ever see that miserable look on his face as he has his heart attack in Dr. Zhivago??

Re: Tahmed, 29

``You think maybe the talent scout will spot me on chowk someday??``

Sure. If you took lessons from Omar Sharif...now that guy is funny...and I don`t know about talent scout on Chowk...how about scout of Chowk?

godot #28 ``you are not funny all the time althought you try very hard..``

You think maybe the talent scout will spot me on chowk someday??

Re: Tahmed

That`s because, at least to me, you are not funny all the time althought you try very hard...sometimes you are offensive when you are trying to be funny...sorry if I hurt your feelings...but I speak only for myself...others may think of you differently...

godot #26 ``but only sometimes… ``

Why did you have to spoil the effect by adding the above???

Re: Zahra, 23

Zahra, the second poem is a closure. The second one is a quest to “liberate” oneself from the chain of the first one; the hope for liberation in the second follows the darkness of the first one. These poems operate at an esoteric level; they will not make much sense at a mundane level.

Like you, I’m also a born idealist and an optimist but less than 100% practical. With a combination of opportunities availed and level-headedness, the idea of “living happily ever after” can be achieved fairly easily in life. I’m a pretty good example of it. However, this idea can be achieved only at an individual level and cannot be extended to others. “Living happily” is a state of mind. If one has that state of mind, one is “happy”, if not, then he/she can never be “happy”. [Note: I put happy in quotations because the idea of “happiness” is very subjective.]


Re: Irum, 25

Irum, your quote sounds good if seen from a protected and comfortable milieu of a middle or upper-middle class. However, outside that narrow bourgeois setting, where children go hungry, innocent women get gang-raped, and men get violently butchered just because they believe in a different god, this quote of yours does not mean anything. That “darkness” is very real even if one never experiences it. Cheers to your bowl of cherries.


Re: Urstruly, 20

No, Urstruly, I didn’t “ghabrao” from your post. I like your criticism because you are always genuine. I was very honest in saying that I will not be writing any more poetry because I am not a poet. I wrote these poems because I was made to.


Re: Tahmed, 18

Fame, female, and fortune at Kinnaird? Just the thought of it tempts me to give up my day job! But hai! I have a thinking head on my shoulders…which is still thinking about Kinnaird…

You could be very funny…but only sometimes…

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t #22 aap bhi likhiya (Begum Chatterji, Maali or Baingan ki kahani)...godot sahib bhi likhaiN...chowk per dow (2) shayer liknaiN walay sheroN ki gunjaish hai...

Go.

By asking you for a third poem, I am not challenging you to undertake the initiative. I only suggested a third poem since you happened to be in a thinking mode and your thought flow is influenced by certain themes. I felt the need to either obtain a steady state or a closure for these two poems. The poems leave the reader in a state of awe. If they started with doom and gloom = darkness, what was the end ?

Being an optimist and a born-idealist (in certain cases - still working on being practical 100%) who likes to see ``happily ever after`` kind of episodes, but gets a rude awakening by plays like ``Into the Woods,`` I was just flowing with my usual self.

Thank You.

tahmed32:

bhai kya dushmani hay hum say?..ghar bad`r karwanay per kyun tulay haiN aap?...kahani tou godot sahib likhaiN gay...yeh tO srif radio-tv per promotional jingle ka kaam daiga...woh bhi gar mukammil kar sakhay...

temporal #19 Bahut khoob, t sahib. A great start, if I may say so!! You definitely must think of completing this one...

godot

yaar tum ghabra buhut jaldi jaatay ho.