Miss Hoor-e-Pakistan

mr temporal
not understanding why the chicken crossed the road now juss tell me one thing. wat is the point
r u trying to make?
r u trying to say that the western women who owns all possible rites in the society is
more respected,more properous, more mentally at peace ??????...
n the paki women as u qout ``who wore burqas..`` r to b criticized coz a few of them
try to disgrace the dignity of abayas or burqas
juss answer one thing if u really believe that(sharam ankh mein hoti hay ... thing)n
theres no point of doind purdah (coz apart from all the aimed HUMOUR whether it is hoor-e-pk or
hoor-ul-pk)
where the muslim women stand ? wats her identity? wats sets her apart?
n one more thing
why do all the ultra mod guys like u look for a women to marry who should b CUTE,TALL,FAIR
,below 20 wud b additonal quality , AND + RELEGOUS BUT NOT FUNDAMENTALIST? (expressed by a famous
fashion photografer who wores best slim shadies...)

Dear tahmed32,

No, I am not trying to drive you nuts.

regards/Veeresh

veeresh #64 BOAC? Pan Am? Have you checked the airline industry lately (like in the last half century or so? I guess i dont understand what you are writing here.

the best that i can make out from your post, your point is that Gujerat had something to do with how indians are treated around the world. but that doesnt make any sense either. last time i remember you were saying that those killed in Gujerat could not be called muslims since there is no standard definition of a muslim or something like that.

i find your post very puzzling indeed. i hope you are not doing this deliberately to drive me nuts trying to figure out what you are trying to say :-)

See, Tahmed, years ago I figured out that we Indians were continuously apologising for ourselves while the Pakistanis I knew were really proud of themselves. That, IMHO, was the honest diference I saw when sailing with them, which, in a wierd way, also led to being able to bluff the dollars out of them in 3-pattee during long lantern lit anchorage nights in the Persian Gulf.

Now here we were, world`s larger democracy, female leaders, (BTW, have you observed how the usual suspects on women`s rights are strangely quiet about this 4 out of 4 women winners in local elections in India earlier this month) some amount of law and order, made our own cars, successful food/dairy, the works. But still, we would be known as :-

a) A country with dirty toilets in Air India, while soccer hooligans and Spring break returnees were A-OK in BOAC and Pan-Am respectively.

b) A country with horrible turns at immigration and customs, when we quietly stood and stand at Heathrow and JFK and Tornoto for hours sometimes, answering every damned personal question there was.

c) A country where small bribes were the order of the day, while everywhere else the term ``tipping`` had taken over.

d) And, a country of orrible indoos.

Gujarat, gentle tahmed32, was and is much deeper than religious war. It is about business in the only state in India with prohibition, amongst other things. Would you like me to expandon this further, or would you drawa comparision with the bootlegger wars in your own Pakistan?

“This error is quite human. We are all committed to seeing our religions in the best possible light. With other religions we are rarely so generous. The solution thus lies in defining, and refining one`s own religion and not making comparative statements”

1. The quintessence of your reply lies in the aforementioned and I cent percent agree with you..
2. as far as switching my arguments is concerned, I guess that will not be of much use as that will invite rebuttal and neither you, me or anyone else will change its concepts just because of these one liners..

so PEACE!

Kindest Regards

jahil

Jahil ji # 61

It is necessary to criticize the caste system. If we do not criticize the caste system, it will live on.

We mustn`t aim to make outdated and harmful religious concepts immune to criticism. If I object to your assertions it would be because you are making grossly unfair comparisons. You take your very limited conception of Hinduism (which does not appear to extend beyond your view of the caste system) and compare it with your fancifully utopian conception of Islam (to which you are quite entitled). I could easily switch your arguments to show Islam to be completely different from what you think it is.

This error is quite human. We are all committed to seeing our religions in the best possible light. With other religions we are rarely so generous. The solution thus lies in defining, and refining one`s own religion and not making comparative statements.

tahmed32, there is absolutely no doubt that there are flaws in the mullas as well as the society, however, the point I wanted to make is the same as you said, “we cannot pull one aspect out of any religion or culture (castes) and start comparing it” and further more, every society, having affiliation with any religion, vicinity or ethnicity has flaws but we can not out rightly reject that society due to those fewer deficiencies that they have as compared to their positive aspects…

As far as Indian democracy is concerned I guess none in the whole world will have any doubts about that..

i finally got to this, and oof. . .`twas funny. . .definitely a nice piece of satire, which i haven`t seen from you in quite a while.
love and those not even haraam rahs!
~ana

jahil #52 i agree with nearly everything you say. only place i differ is in your comparison of egalitarianism in islam with castes in hinduism. we cannot pull one aspect out of any religion or culture (castes) and start comparing it: we must take a more complete and holistic view. muslim societies may not have caste, but they have other ways of tilting things in favor of the rich and powerful - and the fact that no muslim society can match India in terms of democratic traditions that have been established is clear proof that egalitarianism finds fertile grounds in hindu society as it can (but so far has not as a result of a complex mix of cold war politics, rogue generals, power hungry mullahs) in muslim society.

aside from that, i am 100 percent with you in what you write.

#30 TAhmed...er..actually there was this story about the lad from Jallundhar who in a job interview was asked to show his testimonials.....

Chee chee jay all this talk about homo erectus...toba toba...

T Sahib aap ki toe phunny bone bhi hai phir yeh shairi.....

Polygamy and evolution,

In the animal kingdom, the dominant male has a harem and ensures that the best genes are passed on. This supports the survival of the species. Among the animals, the young need to be supported only for a short while and the mother can take care of it adequately.
Among the humans, especially in developed societies, child rearing is complex and needs the support of father and mother, and hence the evolutionary reason for monogamy.

In pakistan and other arab countries the situation is very different, and as I have said before, the darwenian selection of pakistanis has resulted in them continuing to have polygamy, for that reason.

May be some day, pakistan will also become a monogamous society, when the hom erectus pakistanicus becomes hom sapien indicus.

veeresh #53 ha! ha! you have a sense of humor, i`ll grant you that. as for your marriage proposal, perhaps you would like to check with PM who is into that kind of stuff (they`ll even give you two a marriage license in massachussetts).

i am sure you do a great job of defending hindus from muslims and defending muslims from hindus (as you write). that is where i think there may be room for improvement in your otherwise perfect self (see, i am not calling you an idiot anymore but rather pointing out your problem very diplomatically).

that is: the proper way to defend hindus is not to defend the indefensible by pretending that there are no murderers and thugs among hindus (as you were trying to do some time back by pretending that gujerat wasnt a pogrom against muslims) but to accept the fact that such scum exist in every society and to note the fact that the vast majority of any community (hindu or muslim) are decent people. And the proper way to promote a good image of india is not by pretending that it is heaven on earth (as you were implying in your post) but to accept the fact that it is no bed of roses to be an ordinary indian, but to note the fact that indians have a lot to be proud of (democracy, vast educated middle class, rich history and traditions). THEN you make yourself believable. By sticking to the facts.

tahmed32 and your message # 47 (I think), the only other person who called me an idiot and then lived after that married me. Since I am currently fighting for polygamy on another board and also taking on Muslims as sole rep for Hindus on yet another board, I thought I might ask you kee aap ke irade kyaa hain?

I used this ``uddin`` stuff on a particular politician here a few hours ago, one hard core rightwing Hindu Nationalist with great technology skills as well as a worldview which includes enough gratitude on the Islamic heritage we have in India, and if you read it in the media a few days from now, then you know where it came from.

Veeresh-uddin.

tahmed32....

1. Well, there is no doubt about the hypocrisy of most of the molanas, as in the case of pandits, and preachers of different other religions…
2. as far as supporting the wrong MEN is concerned, I guess that is also due to the vested interests not just of molanas, but also the pundits and such other people, as is obvious from the Babari Masjid incident, the happenings in Jerusalem and various other likewise incidents.. These people are mostly uneducated and are brought up in a conservative and Hippocratic atmosphere.. so it runs in their blood and they don’t see things beyond what they are taught to see..
3. now neither Islam nor the followers of Islam have ever declared women as second class citizens.. and those who do are not the following of Islam but are the cohorts of some rituals adopted from pre-Islamic times or some other ethnicities ``as is the local talent i mentioned before`` (I hope u do understand) . Islam provides more rights and privileges to women than any other religion, cast or creed.. cast or creed I mentioned because people on the other side are more likely to believe in casts and creeds rather than religion! Islam is against all these distinctions and provides equal rights to all human beings, whether Brahman, Kshatriya, Vaishya, Shudra, and Harijans… Islam provides women with respect, security and rights in bequest amongst several other privileges and saves her from such inhumane practices like SATTI which are a part of Hinduism and Indian society.

There is much more to say in this context but as I have said in my previous interact, I don’t like criticism for the sake thereof and will like to resolve disputes rather than augmenting them…