My Secret

shamen- That was a nice long comment. I`m coming back to this place after a long time... it was nice to see that.

bfn- wish you well too :)

fascinating...makes u question so many people around you...
wish u well

Satyamvada

Rashmi was just hiding her tribal origin behind the fact that she is a Christian, in which there are no castes and labels. I accept the fact that there are divisions among Christians also, but tell me which religion is there which doesn’t have divisions in ways of worshipping God? And also that many of atrocities have been committed by Christians, they said they are doing it all in the name of spreading the word of God…..but you my friend is barking against the wrong tree…..instead of blaming the Christians who did all the wrong you are blaming the religion of Christianity saying it has nothing to offer anyone.

Can I ask you who are you to make such a comment, what a person gets from his religion is for his/her spiritual satisfaction and it is none of other’s business because its his/her belief.

The next thing you’ll say will be for the conversions, I think for that all I have to say is if you are educated then you’ll be hearing all the stuff that a Christian has to say, mostly for your curiosity or you’ll walk away. But if you are uneducated, say 150 years ago, when all the tribals where uneducated, when none of the higher society educated people wanted to come to your place of dwelling just because you are filth of society, won’t you listen to the guy who came with medical help or with unconditional love for you treating you as human or to teach you the alphabets of language which can make you acceptable in that so called high society? And if you are uneducated of this century, some come to you following the example of those missionaries and preach you their religion, whom will you follow tell me? I think the answer will be whoever has real concern for you and whoever came to you with help, you will listen to them. It can be anyone, am not saying those will be missionaries it can be anyone else also. And if conversion is forced it is perfectly right for it to be condemned. Don’t deny the truth that these missionaries did help the tribal communities come out of the jungles and live as a civilized society in which there would have been no place for them, if they remained illiterate. If you doubt this fact go ask some of the seniors of any tribal community and you will learn the truths yourself.

Regarding Mahatma going to heaven or not? Well if some think he goes to heaven because of his non-violence ideology and if some thinks otherwise it’s his point of view. He was assassinated for the fact that some thought him to be responsible for India-Pakistan partition, I think that group will say the same as the priest said it’s only their different reasons. And who are you to ask where he goes? Don’t tell me you know the answer!!!

I think I have written too much, you would still like to ask me the question of the cover up of the Church? Well they were wrong in doing that and the guilty must be punished. The Vatican City authorities were never always correct and they can never be God. But the practices that they had been advising to people has brought comfort to lots of people and helped them understand what the teachings of the Christ were. If the Church does something wrong, believe me the first step to challenge that wrong will be that of a Christian.

And regarding you my friend, you seriously gave a good advice to Rashmi and it’s up to her to follow it or not. But the intolerance that you have shown against a religion that’s being followed by quite a large number of I can say happy families, blackens the good word that was offered by you. But except the intolerance the advice is perfectly what any good Christian would have asked Rashmi to do.

satyameva jayate.

What bashing ? Facts are facts ....Truth is good for you in the long run.

Have you heard of satyameva jayate ?

Go learn abou the history and background of your indigenous culture first and
become proud of it. Write something about your own people, understand and help
tribals regain self-esteem and self-respect. Christianity has nothing to offer them or
you.

Learn introspection, contemplation and focus on truth.

Done with all the Christianity bashing... I see.

Rashmiekka,

Since you have brought up Goa, also read about what the
catholic church did in Goa.

Read history and find out about the Portugese Inquisition and the massive
looting, destruction of temples and killing of Hindus that occurred in Goa.

Your tribe, their practices and beliefs, has lot more to offer you and make you
a better human being than that european-ideology ever will. Tell your friends
you are a tribal and also tell them about your practices. You dont have to hide
behind the christian religion. People will respect you more and you you will also
bring a pride to your own people.

A nice article, quite moving too..

My favorite one liner...

``THINK - dont fall for naive one liners. ``

Rashmiekka,
You are still young and have a lot to learn.
You say that to be Christian is ``to love your neighbour as yourself.``

If so, go ask your pastor if Mahatma Gandhi would have gone to heaven because
he was not a Christian. Go ask him if the Hindus (including unconverted Tribals) will
go to Heaven ?
Also go and read what the Pope has to say about Conversion and what happens to
non-Christians.

Do you know that up until 150 years ago, people like you and me were not even
considered humans ? Do you know how the Church supported slavery ?
Do you know the Genocide that the Church - as official policy ( not some misguided
individual) - has commited in South America and wiped out the native culture ?
Do you know the involvement of the complete Catholic church heirarchy in the
Holocaust in Europe ? Do you know about the cover up by the Church
of pedophile priests in the US ?

I will urge you to learn about your own tribal culture, world view and relationships.
You dont need to be a Christian. By being a Christian you have in essence distanced
yourself from your people. You have become a cheap copy of a European ideology.

You are smart and intelligent, so stop believing what the Church officials tell you and
start reading about the History of Christianity, and how it has eliminated native cultures
around the world. Christianity is not about love - it is about hate, it is about creating
divisions between believer and heathen, it is about the superiority of Christ over all
other ideas. It is a european hegemonical idea. The indians who work for the Church
are just hired losers working for money.

Help your tribe to believe and raise your own self-esteem and confidence. You will
help yourself and your own people and save their unique culture and position in the
world.

THINK - dont fall for naive one liners.

Oh yeah sure Aamir :)

This kid is smart. Rashmi, if you`re ever in Pakistan, drop me a line - I`ll take you out for dinner.

God bless you,

Aamir

rashmi writes

---

See, a person if evil, will remain evil irrespective of his religion. If Bin Laden would have been born a christian or a hindu or even a tribal, he would have still found out ways of being evil. So don`t say that any religion has a history of having particularly nasty people, because almost all religions have had unworthy followers.

---

most assuredly not. If we cloned hitler and he was (re)born in India, he would probably be an ordinary fellow, maybe a clerk or trade unionist. Circumstances matter and ideologies form a significant chunk of circumstances. The islamist ideology advanced by OBL is clearly a product of who OBL is and his circumstances. If OBL had been an american, at worst, he may have been one of those tele-evangelists. Despicable, but hardly the epitome of evil. the idea that all belief systems (including religions) are equally good/bad is absurd. The world scenario would be quite different if marxism-leninism was in full sway (and marxism has clear parallels with judeo-christian religious ideologies). That all religions have had unworthy followers is (almost) a tautology.

the concepts ``evil`` and ``religion`` are almost entirely a product of judeo-christian (western) ideologies. they do not map on to eastern thought and belief systems including ones nurtured in India (translation: hinduism is not a religion in this sense and is not mutually exclusive of other faiths).

Your decision not to use your ST status to advance your educational opportunities is puzzling. If your status is genuine, as it appears to be, why not use it to your advantage and perhaps in the long run be a model to members of your tribe/community? Affirmative action is based on good intentions.. it has been over-used and abused in the indian context as a political tool. we should evolve a system thats based on socioeconomic status rather than caste/tribe membership.

#27 by Saminasha on March 8, 2004 6:27am PT

I was reading your ilogs particularly the article by Bad Girl. Why is it not posted on Chowk?

This was a very alarming read.

Two of my sisters go to medical school in Karachi and my heart was breaking (and boiling with anger).

Some of us need to go there and give our women some AK-47s so they can tear out a hole where the fanatic used to be.

I could not reply to so many posts because of my exams and now there are just too many. I`ll just stress on the important points here. So just a word or 2 for everybody.

Gujjubania- :)

Satyamvada- What`s your problem??
#70-
See, a person if evil, will remain evil irrespective of his religion. If Bin Laden would have been born a christian or a hindu or even a tribal, he would have still found out ways of being evil. So don`t say that any religion has a history of having particularly nasty people, because almost all religions have had unworthy followers.

#80-
I don`t even have a caste certificate. So I cannot abuse the reservation system. Ahh... sorry for not being your perfect example.
And about me trying to gain the ``victim`` status....
I`ve said it time and time again that I`ve had it really good. People never did discriminate against me or anything like that. The entire article is all about me and my thinking(Re: post #48). You just couldn`t understand that. You got stuck up on the external features of my article. It`s kinda difficult to explain what I`m trying to say.... Hmm... it`s like you got so involved with the entire SC/ST angle that you failed to taste the very essence of this article. And that essence has nothing to do with being a tribal.
Like I said before, other people with totally different backgrounds could also have had a similar experience. I can change a few words in this article and make it the story of an Indian living in America, who is not proud of India or in fact the story of any human being who is not proud of his culture and then realizes that he was so wrong.
Sorry, but you just didn`t get it.
And I`m not anti-hindu, but I don`t think that you`ll believe that. And it`s not use trying to prove it.
And about being a christian, I`ll just say one thing. It means ``to love your neighbour as yourself.`` And that one line sums up every possible ethical principle. :)


Peace.

Rashmiekka,

You are a perfect example of how a privileged person abuses a reservation system
supposedly created for the poor and the underprivileged who may have not had
the same access to education. What is also insidious is your usage of the ``tribal``
label to gain a ``victim`` status.

Notice also as to how she is vehemantly anti-Hindu. She claims that Tribals will
get angry if referred to as Hindus !!. But the only problem is that there tens
of millions of tribals in all of India who do so willingly and gladly - Go to
Arunachal Pradesh and Orissa. Infact, it was the tribals in MP who voted massively
Uma Bharati into power.
RashmiEkka also failed to answer questions about what it means to be Christian and
how it may affect tribal culture.


R.Sridhar,

As for your questions on conversion. I offer Arunachal Pradesh as an example.
Arunachal Pradesh, where the people, due to RSS activities, fiercely maintain their
tribal culture and regard it as the equal of everyone else. The mistake you make is
trying to equate ``Hindu`` or ``Indic`` with a religious label such as Christian or Muslim. Compare the peace in Arunachal Pradesh with Mizoram, where the Hindu Reang tribals have been driven out.

As for as the Christians running good schools - it is only because of the huge colonial
property that they were allowed to keep. These days there are large number of schools
that are run by Hindus which are equally good. The old colonial christian schools occupy
some of the prime real estate in big cities - because they were allowed to keep the old
colonial loot.

Hindus have finally after many decades acquired the critical mass to send out and
support volunteers who provide education and health services in interior and far flung
areas. This kind of work is especially needed in Orissa, MP, parts of Andhra, and of
course the North-East.

In the North-East, it is of prime importance that Hindus support tribes to
organize themselves and increase their self-esteem so that they can protect their
own cultire. This is starting to happen in Nagaland and Mizoram to a small extent.
As more Indians get wealty and as the Mizo`s and Naga`s gain self confidence and
start realizing the ``politics`` of conversion - they will be more willing to stand up to
predatory missionaries.

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