In Search of Birth Places

Hi Nazar,
This Naeem From Kotmomin, now presently at Toronto, Canada. My Education till matriculation is from Kotmomen High School. Being away from my backhome, i missed a lot. when I surfing net in search of my town and its past, I came across this your narrated story, which took my in my past childhood. My parents are migrated from Punjail, Ambala during partition and they used to remember their old home. Due to partition, cultural diversity came with them being locally concentrated in town, these community could not mix with local inhibitant of that territory since a long time has passed.
I would like if some one know much about my parent`s town in AMBALA named PUNJAIL. It is good form to recall history with all its tears and emotions.

Thanks Nazar Khan,

as age sets in and years get on I wonder if someday

I`ll be visiting Pakistan and wondering about the past like Nand.

The past is already another country.

Let us treat the Hindus and Sikhs well when they visit Pakistan.

And that also goes to Muslim relatives who visit from India.

Let us not lose this rare opportunity to get get to know each other and even become

friends (if Arjun_m and Jay can keep out of this).



Ras

hossp #86 I agree to the extent that as humans we seem to find it easy to stereotype individuals. The fact of course is that if one stops to think about it, stereotyping does not make any sense: there are all kinds of individuals in every society. Thus, if one went by stereotyping and focussed on the criminals in any society, one could stereotype ANY community (UPite, Panjabi., Pathan, Sindhi, Baluch) as being (take your pick) murderers, thieves, and so on. And it is easy enough I think, if one tries, to avoid stereotyping.

As for the Pakistan army intentions - no one knows anyone`s intentions. Let us just go by the facts, and the fact is that the tone of relations between India and Pakistan have changed 180 degrees in the past few months. No one can predict whether it will prove lasting or a mere flash in the pan. However, I do think it is correct to say that there is more momentum to this latest peace initiative than ANY initiative I can recall.

More fruitful than guessing on ``good`` or ``bad`` intent is to understand the forces that are at play other than the self interest of the military (and this is true for any military since their budgets are a direct function of tension levels) in maintaining tensions - and there are many. E.g. The military stalemate is one, international community pressures spearheaded by the US is another, the economic costs in terms of foreign investor interest is another, general public sentiments for peace is another...the list goes on and one could discuss them at length. I base my optimism based on my understanding of ALL of these factors, and thus my optimism is not based on blind acceptance of statements of intent by musharaff as you seemed to indicate. Of course, no one can predict the future, as I said, since even a broad-based understanding of the underlying forces is hard enough to do and it is simply beyond human ability to predict the future. So, I will agree we need to keep our fingers crossed here, but at least lets just enjoy the current peaceful atmosphere for now.

inquilaabi #87 If you read the above, you will see that I basically am thinking along the same lines as you are in your post.

Hossp,
You have your reasons for what you say about Punjab and Punjabis. I`m not going there with you, unless you want to. Being a Punjabi though and knowing some outstanding Punjus, I can tell you that while there are incredible problems in the Punjab, it is no less an albatross than the rest of Pakistan. I`m not sure I like the word albatross either, but then perhaps the last mariner rather than the ancient one will have the last word on that.

If I can comment on what you`ve said to Tahmed, perhaps history of Pakistan does not support his enthusiasm, but that should not take away from those who are taking steps on their own to change things even if the Army does have the last word on that as well. One should not lose hope all together even when all hope seems to be gone.

tahmad

I didn’t mean to take a cheap shot. I have known some fine people from both sides of the Punjab. Often it becomes hard to qualify every statement and sometimes stereotyping does creep in.

Anyways, I am not in accord with your “unbridled enthusiasm” about baby steps and things-will-change in Pakistan. History of Pakistan does not support your enthusiasm. You are not naïve but I think some time you do buy in the party line.

To continue my tirade of the border situation alone, in the last 25-30 they have opened and closed the Wagah border several times but never once did they open the Sindh-Rajasthan border. This is the kind of treatment people in the smaller provinces have come to expect in Pakistan.

People on Sindh-Rajasthan border regularly travel between the two countries. Rangers and Armies on the both side are quite used to it and would let people cross the border for a few rupees. So, it is not really a big deal. In reality this alone is more interaction then whatever takes place between the two Punjab. Why the Pak govt only opens the Wagah border is a mystery.

Getting back to your enthusiasm of improving relations with India, I doubt that it is something the army wants to continue. They will control and would always like to be in a position to snap whatever relations develop. If the current state of affairs changes and the US eases its pressure, the army would just find an excuse to go back to square one.
Don’t expect a lot from Pakistan Army. They do things for themselves and not in the Interest of Pakistan.



#85 by inquilaabi

Punjab is an albatross around everybody`s neck.

Blaming it all on all the Punjabis. Interesting.

hossp #82 It is true we should keep our fingers crossed. But this time around they seem to be making a determined effort to normalize relations.

It is natural due to geographical proximity that, with normalization of relation over time, the two panjabs will have close links and sind and rajasthan would have close links. I dont see any reason for you to be so upset about borders being opened in the panjab and not in the south. After all, they have to start somewhere and I am sure they had some good practical reasons to start at one place and not another.

As for your remarks about panjabis, they are of course meaningless stereotyping and bigotry, and I think you should avoid such remarks and thus improve the social skills you refer to.

Hossp # 82

I agree with you. Munabao route at long last is now being opened.

You are also right about the Punjabis. Sindhis, Baluchis, Pathans and the Bengalis of old West Pakistan had a more balanced approach towards Indo-pak relations. It is only the Punjabis who permitted the Mulla-Miltary nexis to make inroads and bulldoze a crazy India-hostile fixatioon.

I am also disturbed that even in the US universities, the Punjabi Pakistanis make it a point to have a somewhat India-hostile student body. I hope I am wrong.

tahmad32

Interesting post. You are making a valid point. My intention was to present that a sustained economic activity between the two countries could sustain good relations. The goody –goody thing is good for what is worth. Nothing!!

Every three or four years Pak-India go thru this rigmarole and nothing ever comes out of it. It has become such a charade that it is beginning to sound like a broken record. We hear same stories, same characters, and the same cricket teams. The joke about Khushwant Singh and his bottle has been repeated umpteenth times already. (No customs officer in Pakistan has ever taken my bottle from me. Even the security guys after screening politely ask what is in the bottle? Once a guy said “Aap Musalmaan ho kar sharab piatein hain and I said Insaan Sharab pitaa hain. Musalmanoon ko manaa hai!).

All border between India and Pakistan should be open not just Wagah. Punjabi cut each other’s throat and still they are allowed to travel. Because it is easy to close that border and Punjabis won’t have a problem. They already hate India. Every time India tries to open borders at Sindh- Rajasthan, Pakistani govt breaks relations at Wagah. The border at Sindh has been closed since 1964 and has not been opened once in the last 40 years. Why???

People in Sindh, both Urdu speaking and Sindhi speaking have much less contentions relationship with Indian then Punjabis and still, the people who can truly benefit from opening of borders are made to suffer. Sindhi would never go to India thru Lahore. They would love to go to Rajasthan thru Muna bao. Sindhi have traditional strong relations with people of Rajasthan. Thousands of Hindu families in Pakistan have family and business relations in Rajasthan. But they can only go to Rajasthan thru illegal means. Whereas Punjabis who rarely visit East Punjab have it made.

Similarly, A vast majority of Urdu speaking in Karachi and Hyderabad Sindh would like to visit Rajasthan and Gujarat but they are put thru the hardship. A good percentage of my own family has business relations in India and routinely travel to India illegally. We sure would like to do that in a legal way. The trade that is now called smuggling was always legal between Sindh and Rajasthan. All of a sudden it is illegal because Punjabis are incapable of maintaining normal social relations with people- in Pakistan and outside of it- Nobody else should suffer for their lack of social skills.

I guess it is time that Indians start weraing T-shirts with Paki flag on them. Again.

http://www.siliconindia.com/shownewsdata.asp?newsno=23389&newscat=Business

hossp #72 you write ``So, cut the crap and get real!!! ``

Exactly....almost. How about this: ``Keep up the crap, things will get real anyway!`` That is, we are no doubt going through a honeymoon period of sorts in Indo-Pak relations. Nothing wrong with it.

As for getting real, the thing is that economic realities are in FAVOR of maintianing the crap (as you put it). Traders like peace and goodwill. And even today traders in India and Pakistan are building economic links in a number of ways. There are hindus in Delhi who are working for Pakistani-owned firms, and there are firms in Pakistan who are helping Indian firms meet their customer orders while circumventing government restrictions through perfectly legal means.

So things are in fact in favor of more of this. It is the armchair nationalists who are on the wrong side of economic reality.

hamidm

I think we should be kind to our neighbors - but there are issues between the two people. Without a just resolution everything is fake and cosmetic. As the punjabi proverb goes, this - itt kuttay da vair - is most likely to come in between our ways sooner or latter. The friendship between itt and kutta is indeed an anthropological disorder.

I thank everyone for responding & taking interest in this episode. For me, it was a purely personal experience - with no hi-fi ideas in the background like India, Pakistan, Islam, Hinduism, peace of the world.......

There was never a lesson to be learnt here or preached. But it does show how some little things of life can be both similar or dissimilar at a distance of 50 kilometers. And one could nurture small little fallacies or misperceptions.

If there is a general consensus for ``Enmity``, I have no problem with that. As long as that does not prevent us from talking, taking a walk togather, taking a drive, enjoying food or simply fooling around.

As Khushwant Singh says that once when he landed in Karachi airport, the custom wallah took his Whisky bottle and then embraced him saying ``Law is Law. And friendship is friendship``.

So ``Enmity is enmity. But gup-shup is gup-shup``.

Thanks.

nazarhayatkhan ``which has water springs, peacocks and the inevitable local saint.The peacocks are still living in Kalar Kahar forest because there is a curse by the local saint on any one who harms them.``

I always wondered why Kalar Kahar was known for peococks. It has a PAF radar station, and from what I hear a nice rest house now. It is on the old bus route from Rawalpindi to Sargodha, before the air-conditioned coaches started, which go through Chakwal (if I remember correctly). Though the motorway may have changed all that, now. There used to be a two big bus companies, Awan and Super Awan, that used to own this route, and legend has it that the competition was so tough between them, that they would get their drivers to run the other company`s busses off the road.

I wonder if those busses are still around.

hossp,

``So, cut the crap and get real!!!``

................ exactly my sentiments ............ desis tend to take everything to an extreme - a sign of emotional imaturity and eons of inbreeding ............ we simply don`t believe in moderation - when we hate someone we will slit his throat from ear to ear at the drop of a takbeer, and when it comes to loving a former enemy we go into a homoerotic frenzy at the sight of a smelly heeng eater ................

............ why can`t we treat the hindoos like we treat the belgians or the hutus ?.......... what makes them so special ?.......... i have never seen an indian fillum, never been to india, never had a desire to go to india and don`t care if all the madrasis and marwaris drifted away on a teutonic plate to the south pole .............. who cares ?............ i lived twenty odd miles from the wagha border for five years and never, not once, went past the shalimar gardens which is still a good fifteen miles away .......... lived in peshawar for many many years and never went to the torkham border - who cares if grandma crossed over from jalalabad ............ lived in quetta for years, but never went to chaman to gaze across the border at kandahar which once used to be grandpa`s home .............. heck, i lived in pindi for most of my life and went to my ancestral village which is an hour away only when my grand father passed away ............ i don`t even want to go to toronto to see what a canadian looks like.... ............. this fascination with ``foreigners`` is an antrhropological disorder that afflicts people just because they think it is fashionable and cute .............. nostalgia sucks ......... if i want to meet an indian i`ll go have a drink with a headshaker on a h-1 visa at the local bar ..........no need to go all the way to bangalore .................

.......... of course, mine is an extreme position ............

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