From Jinnah to Jamali

Re: # 92

Oh, ho ho! The great Hamdani coming down from his padestal to borrow words from me?! Who could have thought we would live to see this day?

I am waiting when you will start weeping, kiddo?!


Farrukh

``You have laid yourself bare for everyone to see what an intellectual dwarf filled with a lot of hot air looks and behaves like.``

Perfect - if only you would know how well you`ve described your writings here.

Re: # 90

There is nothing to assume any more, my dear. You have laid yourself bare for everyone to see what an intellectual dwarf filled with a lot of hot air looks and behaves like.

Cheers,
Farrukh

Still assuming I see?

Re: # 88

Well, Sir. I am and I am sure any one else who might be reading this await your ``higher and deeper understanding`` of Raza`s work. Being associated with the man in his law business and on an occassional social basis is a lot different from spending day in and day out working with him for six years of one`s life.

Here is my phone number 0300-4604229. If you have an iota of courage or substance to what you are yapping about, give me a call and talk to me in person instead of hiding behind these stupid nick names.

Good day to you,
Farrukh Mehboob Khan

Dear Farrukh,

Very bad attempt at defending yourself my dear.

You article continues to be in the pits of intellectual ignorance- not to mention a superficial understanding of what Raza is saying.

I too have been associated with Raza Kazim and the usage of the word ``eccentricities`` was affectionate, and I am sure Mr Kazim understands that.

Yours sincerely

YLH

Dear Readers,

This is with refernce to Mr. Yasser Lateef Hamdani’s (Mantolives’) recent remarks about my article titled “From Jinnah to Jamali” on Chowk.com. I would start off with an apology to my readers for not having declared before that the above cited article was based on what I learnt and the notes I kept during my six years long association (1995-2001) with Mr. Raza Kazim. During this period, I worked as a research associate at the philosophy department of Sanjan Nagar Institute of Philosophy & Arts, an organization founded by Mr. Kazim in 1995, based in Lahore, Pakistan. Mr. Kazim, whom I consider my teacher in much more than mere political philosophy, is a highly respected name in the circles of non-conforming politics and philosophy of life in Pakistan but much calumniated by the opposite camp. However, it is my sincere submission that this act of omission was not with a malicious intent but only because I wanted the contents of the article be judged on their merit and not shot down in light of any prejudicial predisposition that Mr. Hamdani has termed as Mr. Kazim’s “eccentricities”.

Despite this, to call me an “idiot” and my work a “regurgitative copy” of Mr. Kazim’s ideas not only bespeaks of Mr. Hamdani’s basic ignorance of Mr. Kazim’s work (and the level of my association with it) but also betrays a small mind whose narrowness is compounded by pompousness that comes almost naturally to those few Pakistanis who get to spend some time at a foreign university. In Punjabi we have a proverb that quite aptly describes the state of Mr. Hamdani’s mind and his type – khoti thaney ton ho aaeei hai (the she-ass has been to the police station). Those who, like me, have read the intellectual humbug Mr. Hamdani spreads through his writings on Chowk.com, can well understand how appropriately this proverb applies to him.

Regards,
Farrukh M Khan

This idiot is only regurgitating the ideas and eccentricities of Raza Kazim, whose whole view he has shamelessly copied and reproduced here... without any credit.

Ref fmk #83

[I replied that India had done much better than us … no doubt about that … but they also have problems ... and I mentioned religion and caste problem as one of the major ones. ... And I thought that unlike the siege mentality of trigger happy patriots of Pakistan I would get more understanding responses from the other side of the Great Divide, but my impression was soon to fade away with comments made by mohar and harimau ... Their absolute negation of the existence of such a problem really astonished me.]

I think I gave you a pretty comprehensive reply on the IT industry but you had no response to that. All of a sudden, you are accusing me of denying the existence of the problems of caste.

The question is: what prevents people from different segments of society (be they Muslims or Dalits) from participating in the economic boom? Are there government policies in effect in India that deny opportunities to certain segments of society?

The answer has to be `No`.

Education, particularly professional education in Engineering, Medicine and Health Sciences, has been freed from the evil clutches of the government. Anybody with enough money can start a college and pretty much admit whomever they choose to, so long as they comply with government rules. So anybody can start an engineering college subject to approval by AICTE (All India Committee on Technical Education), automatically gain affiliation with a local university which is run by the state, and admit anybody under the management quota which is 50% of the total seats in that institution. If after a while the college demonstrates reasonable management practices and offers a broad variety of courses, it even becomes a ``deemed`` university running its own affairs. The only requirement for a medical college is that it must have a hospital up and running for several years before one can start a medical college.

One particular group of colleges run by the SRM group in Chennai (they run SEVERAL engineering colleges, a college for Dentistry, one for Nursing and another for Physical Therapy in addition to several Arts and Science colleges for a total of 13) took in Rs. 300 crores (no typo there, three hundred crores of rupees) last year. This is more than what several manufacturing companies earn in annual revenues. The SRM group is not owned by brahmins or kshatriyas.

Similarly, a Christian gentleman (well, knowing his antecedents I hesitate to use that word to describe this person but what the heck) runs 3 engineering colleges around Chennai, one deemed university and has now started a residential school for grades 6-12.

Minority institutions have gone all the way to the Supreme Court of India and have got a judgment declaring they can do pretty much what they want with the management quota seats... which means they sell them to the highest bidders.

Are there any Muslim institutions along these lines? I know of at least a couple, Crescent Engineering College and Mohammad Sathak College of Engineering both just outside my hometown Chennai. There are probably more in Tamil Nadu, my home state.

So what prevents the Wakf Boards in various states from starting professional colleges? Why are they farting around about Haj subsidies and who gets to go on Haj?

As for Dalits, they have reservations galore in all walks of life.

Why is it that not one Christian in India complains about discrimination in educational opportunities but the Muslims can`t say one good word about the system in India?

People need to get off their butts if they want to get ahead. Bemoaning one`s fate ain`t going to get one anywhere in life.

fmk
Commonwealth of india is a new term increasingly used by economists to describe india, even by some in the ``shining` government, that may not be there day after tomorrow.However,what you say is true, that there are vast areas of non or underdevelopment.But one has to start somewhere and the indians have opted for the ``trickle down effect``, indian style.And people in rural areas are waking up to the fact that they cannot expect handouts but have to actively participate in that nation`s development to reap their share of benefits.Slowly but surely they will.As far as Laloo, his wife didn`t commit a crime or hold public office prior where she can be judged, so why doesn`t she have the right to have the right to take her husband`s place, if, and that`s the key word...if, her party and the majority in bihar are ok with it .So be it.That`s real democracy for you.It`s the people in the villages who decide the fate of government in india not the elite , the industralists, the educated or the rich.And they must be pretty smart `cause India won`t be where it is without the full cooperation of all.Hey we might have an italian born PM whose only credential is that she married rajiv gandhi.And, i might add economic liberalization was started by the congress govt. of prime minister narasimha rao and executed by his finance minister dr.manmohan singh..

niranjan:

You have more or less endorsed my point of view ... you see my comments about India started when a Pakistani respondents to my article asked why hasn’t India followed the same path towards social, economic and cultural deterioration as Pakistan has, since we both share the same pre-colonial and colonial past. I replied that India had done much better than us … no doubt about that … but they also have problems ... and I mentioned religion and caste problem as one of the major ones. ... And I thought that unlike the siege mentality of trigger happy patriots of Pakistan I would get more understanding responses from the other side of the Great Divide, but my impression was soon to fade away with comments made by mohar and harimau ... Their absolute negation of the existence of such a problem really astonished me.

As for Laloo Parsad`s banning from taking part in election ... he has really made a mockery of the whole situation by putting Rabarri Devi of all the people in his own place at the helm of affairs in Bihar... and its not just Bihar, more than seventy percent of India lives in villages out of which nearly 2/3 don’t have any accessibility other than Katcha Roads (non asphalt) , with little or no access to clean drinking water or regular electricity. Try telling the story of India`s wonderful economic progress to people living in these areas and you know very well what will be their response. ... Now having said this, there is no denying the upsurge in wealth generated by India (about distribution I have my doubts) during the past 15 years or so and that Pakistan should take a leaf out of this book to develop solutions to our own problems.

I never knew that India is known as a ``common wealth of nations`` which it ought to be. By my latest information it is called Bahrat in Hindi and the Republic of India in English.

Farrukh M Khan

fmk
let me clarify.Yes there are problems in indian society, but which one doesn`t.The main reason why India is being noticed for its achievements is `cause all Indians rich and poor, i might add have begun to work together for the development of the whole country.Caste ,ethnic and religious conflicts occur but the majority will not allow the few to usurp the common agenda and such conflicts will be quickly suppressed.Unlike in Pakistan where a few mullahs or the army by force of faith and rhetoric can hijack a nation for their own selfish goals.India is not one homogenous country.It is a commonwealth of smaller nations akin to the european union.Initially disparities will exist in a developmental phase.laloo yadav can strut like a peacock in Bihar and say and do atrocious things, but he is debarred from holding office in Bihar and he did comply with the law, didn`t he?.He cannot go outside Bihar and behave like he does there.No Way.And he would not have been able to stand for parliament if the Election Commission had debarred him from doing so.There is a certain line that even the most powerful cannot cross in India, where the common man can vote and unseat a powerful government and they will have to comply.Businessmen too have fair laws under which they operate.The consumer in India is king.Simply put.

As far as caste is concerned ,it has been around for a long time and therfore will take a long time to pass.Time and progression will change things.However, if a citizen wants to vote for someone just `cause he`s from the same caste then he has a right to do so.That`s real democracy for you.No point blaming the laloo`s and the rss etc. for that.The good comes with the bad.If the people of bihar want laloo and slow development , then they have elected to do so and they get the government they deserve.The rest of India might do differently.But, we`re all indians and committed to the preservation of the nation state ,which includes propping up non-productive states such as bihar, if the need arises.That`s why we are known as the commonwealth of india.Pakistan should try to take a leaf out of india`s book. Why not??

niranjan:

Thanks for the comment. But you will need to read the article more carefully to make a fair comment ... It is lot tougher to comprehend fully than you care to believe ... and no where in it have I tried malign India in any way. On the other hand, if we are to take a page out of India’s book, as you have put it, to get our house in order, then wont we be better off if we better understood India`s progress to where they are now? By avoiding to repeat their mistakes.

However, if you r mentioning my exchange with mohar and hirmau, as I said before I would stand corrected to whatever extent information has been provided to me which is on the contrary to what I knew before. But I still stand by my argument that India is still to do way with fissures in its social fabric on the basis of caste and religion.

Farrukh M Khan

Dear fmk,
I`m an Indian living in nyc and am interested an events in the subcontinent, like most of us from there.Btw, i`m from Chennai ,i don`t speak hindi(hate it,love India)and a north indian brother is as alien to me culturally as a pakistani.My question is this....why when you are discussing pakistan`s slow and long descent into the toliet bowl of nations , do ye have to bring India into the picture??.Why??.You see , the secret to India`s success is that we have started to worry about ourselves and not our neighbors.We are taking care of our own house and we`re doing a mighty good job of it , as the rest of the world thinks so.Hey, the TATA Indica, an indian designed/developed motorcar is now exported to the UK and badged as the ROVER metro.Such a thing twenty years ago would have been unthinkable.I`ve seen Mahindra motors Scorpio SUV`s in southern europe.I`ve been proud to be an Indian at that moment.Most of India is now working hard and the politicians have been served notice that they too have to clean up their act.And we have a fine President, dr.abdul kalam who i`m sure will not tolerate misbehaviour in excess by any politician.He`s a fellow indian Tamilian , like myself, doesn`t speak hindi, yet is the C-in-C of all India.That`s why India is shining, among many other fine such examples.Maybe it`s time pakistan took a page out of india`s book and starts learning.

Tahmed 32,
Since many have taken excpetion to the issue of collective debt and fmk has refused to reply to you, I have my own views.

COLLECTIVE DEBT.
Yes, we have to rid the collective debt. Barring Jinnah and some progressive leaders around him, all others were the product of opportunity and political flexibility. Eversince, the flavour of politics and governance in Pakistan has not changed.This is just one installemnt of the collective debt.

AS FOR TAHMED`S POINTS
I think you are over optimistic and assured about the true economic health. If the cell phone liecences will help bring in some 500million $, then this same establishment is guilty of thwarting investments over 12 billion $ in the past few years. It has something to do with the very investor unfriendly atmosphere in the country. The man who keeps the files and writes the comments on notings is more concerned with his advantages rather than the benefit of the country.
As regards the fantastic taxation regime and sales tax, please read my posts on the subject.
Even then if you have querries, please raise the issue once again. The boss of the bureau of statistics knows a hang about economy.

JAY
Sometimes I respect your comments for objectivity but you cannot resist making things an Indo Pak issue. Pakistan does not depend on OBL or his likes. There are more Pakistanis to work positively and progressively than the few, you want to make the show case for Pakistan.
Cheerios

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