An Urgent Appeal to all Pakistanis
Syed Ali August 18, 2004
#77 Posted by teshah on August 29, 2004 5:29:45 pm
Urstruly
Thank you for calling me `Maluk hori` in a typical Attocky dialect but excuse me I am not `Maluk` but a born `Shah` with a status of a `Faqeer`. I may also point out that you are not right in saying that Ustad Imamdin had no Deewan. He did have a Deewan titled `Baange Duhul` on the patern of `Baange Daraa` of Allama Iqbal and it was no less an authority than the Allama himself who gave the title of `Ustad` to Imamdin. In the introduction to the Deewan of Ustaad the writer (I don`t remember his name) had compared the Ustad with Ghalib and Goete, etc., etc., and had challenged the distractors of Ustad to produce a single couplet to match the poetry of the Ustad. However, none has been able to do so to this day.
dost-mittara
Dost -mittar has taken exception to the language used by the Ustad. He seems to be an alien to the Punjabi laguage and culture. An Ajmi would feel the same about the Arabic language which is full of the words `lun` and `lullah` but these words do not mean what an Urdu or Punjabi speaking Ajmi would think. How paradoxical it may seem the Muslims carry out their physical Islamization on phallus but are ashamed to mention it in public. The Hindus, however, worship it openly as ‘Shiv Ling’. Strange as it may seem if God had been Punjabi-speaking he could have said ‘Lun waikh mera’ instead of ‘Lun tarraani’ in Arabic as the word ‘lun’ means the same, i.e., ‘never’ in both these sentences .
Thank you for calling me `Maluk hori` in a typical Attocky dialect but excuse me I am not `Maluk` but a born `Shah` with a status of a `Faqeer`. I may also point out that you are not right in saying that Ustad Imamdin had no Deewan. He did have a Deewan titled `Baange Duhul` on the patern of `Baange Daraa` of Allama Iqbal and it was no less an authority than the Allama himself who gave the title of `Ustad` to Imamdin. In the introduction to the Deewan of Ustaad the writer (I don`t remember his name) had compared the Ustad with Ghalib and Goete, etc., etc., and had challenged the distractors of Ustad to produce a single couplet to match the poetry of the Ustad. However, none has been able to do so to this day.
dost-mittara
Dost -mittar has taken exception to the language used by the Ustad. He seems to be an alien to the Punjabi laguage and culture. An Ajmi would feel the same about the Arabic language which is full of the words `lun` and `lullah` but these words do not mean what an Urdu or Punjabi speaking Ajmi would think. How paradoxical it may seem the Muslims carry out their physical Islamization on phallus but are ashamed to mention it in public. The Hindus, however, worship it openly as ‘Shiv Ling’. Strange as it may seem if God had been Punjabi-speaking he could have said ‘Lun waikh mera’ instead of ‘Lun tarraani’ in Arabic as the word ‘lun’ means the same, i.e., ‘never’ in both these sentences .
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#76 Posted by wajahat on August 27, 2004 7:31:52 am
From an Article in The Friday Times
``Tongues are also wagging on the performance, or the lack thereof, of Adil Siddiqui. The minister has been implicated in a balloting scandal of industrial plots in the SITE area and the details have been published by newspapers in Karachi. But the most powerful condemnation has come from Ardeshir Cowasjee.
The word was leaked by Nazim Haji, former president of the Citizen Police-Liaison Committee (CPLC). Even government sources acknowledge that “irregularities” have been committed in the balloting and allotment of plots. Cowasjee’s only fault was that he raised the issues in his columns and being a supporter of General Pervez Musharraf told him in good faith that “all is not clean” in his (Musharraf’s) government.
This got Siddiqui going. To stop Cowasjee from writing about the SITE balloting issue, Siddiqui allegedly threatened Haji. “I believe the issue has been taken up by the MQM leadership and Adil has been called to London,” Haji told TFT.
Official sources say the Sindh cabinet took up the issue and Siddiqui was asked to explain his position. He is reported to have told his colleagues that some newspapers had started a vilification campaign against him. “He asked the government to take up the issue with these publications,” an insider told TFT.
Later, one of the Urdu publications published a story claiming Siddiqui had asked the government to slap a ban on these publications. This story was later published in an English newspaper and also found its way into Cowasjee’s column.
When TFT contacted the Sindh information advisor, Salahuddin Haider, he denied Adil Siddiqui had demanded a ban on the offending newspapers in any cabinet meeting. “No such demand has ever been made,” Haider told TFT. “Siddiqui merely expressed his reservations over the campaign against him in some newspapers. We have complaints against these publications but will take up the matter with the APNS [All Pakistan Newspapers Society],” he said.
MQM in the past has had strained relationship with the press particularly in the early 90s when it did not allow a mainstream English newspaper to be distributed in the city. However, it changed its policy in the late 90s and even praised the media’s role during the army and police operation against it (MQM) from 1992 to 1996.
The newspapers the MQM had targeted because they exposed its unbecoming and violent conduct also played a major role in exposing the excesses of the establishment when it moved against the MQM and began to bump off its activists extra-judicially. “The party realised that the newspapers it thought were against it were merely doing their job honestly. That has been an important lesson for it,” says an analyst.
He adds: “Adil Siddiqui has every right to challenge any news, take a newspaper to court if he thinks he has been wronged but he has no right to threaten any newspaper or writer.”
Observers are agreed that while the MQM may be riding a high tide just now, it is never out of danger. ‘This is the time for it [MQM] to establish itself as a genuine, non-violent political force. But what the two Siddiquis are doing is not the best way to promote that image,” says one.``
``Tongues are also wagging on the performance, or the lack thereof, of Adil Siddiqui. The minister has been implicated in a balloting scandal of industrial plots in the SITE area and the details have been published by newspapers in Karachi. But the most powerful condemnation has come from Ardeshir Cowasjee.
The word was leaked by Nazim Haji, former president of the Citizen Police-Liaison Committee (CPLC). Even government sources acknowledge that “irregularities” have been committed in the balloting and allotment of plots. Cowasjee’s only fault was that he raised the issues in his columns and being a supporter of General Pervez Musharraf told him in good faith that “all is not clean” in his (Musharraf’s) government.
This got Siddiqui going. To stop Cowasjee from writing about the SITE balloting issue, Siddiqui allegedly threatened Haji. “I believe the issue has been taken up by the MQM leadership and Adil has been called to London,” Haji told TFT.
Official sources say the Sindh cabinet took up the issue and Siddiqui was asked to explain his position. He is reported to have told his colleagues that some newspapers had started a vilification campaign against him. “He asked the government to take up the issue with these publications,” an insider told TFT.
Later, one of the Urdu publications published a story claiming Siddiqui had asked the government to slap a ban on these publications. This story was later published in an English newspaper and also found its way into Cowasjee’s column.
When TFT contacted the Sindh information advisor, Salahuddin Haider, he denied Adil Siddiqui had demanded a ban on the offending newspapers in any cabinet meeting. “No such demand has ever been made,” Haider told TFT. “Siddiqui merely expressed his reservations over the campaign against him in some newspapers. We have complaints against these publications but will take up the matter with the APNS [All Pakistan Newspapers Society],” he said.
MQM in the past has had strained relationship with the press particularly in the early 90s when it did not allow a mainstream English newspaper to be distributed in the city. However, it changed its policy in the late 90s and even praised the media’s role during the army and police operation against it (MQM) from 1992 to 1996.
The newspapers the MQM had targeted because they exposed its unbecoming and violent conduct also played a major role in exposing the excesses of the establishment when it moved against the MQM and began to bump off its activists extra-judicially. “The party realised that the newspapers it thought were against it were merely doing their job honestly. That has been an important lesson for it,” says an analyst.
He adds: “Adil Siddiqui has every right to challenge any news, take a newspaper to court if he thinks he has been wronged but he has no right to threaten any newspaper or writer.”
Observers are agreed that while the MQM may be riding a high tide just now, it is never out of danger. ‘This is the time for it [MQM] to establish itself as a genuine, non-violent political force. But what the two Siddiquis are doing is not the best way to promote that image,” says one.``
#75 Posted by echoboom on August 25, 2004 1:04:06 pm
Margaret-Thatcher`s son and his equally corrupt mommy who aids and abets her criminal sonl.
No wonder the Pakis feel proud that such behaviour is very `progressive` and `modern` because the `goraas also do it`.
The goraagoochaaters.
english.aljazeera.net.
Please note that this is the CORRECT and genuine aljazeera site. The imperialists and thugs (the westerners) are trying to hoodwink the superior civilisations by a fraud site called aljazeera.com [ BEWARE of their such kind of history of theft called : `discovery`` and ``invention` credit]
again:
The genuine site in english is
english.aljazeera.net
Do not put www before english.
No wonder the Pakis feel proud that such behaviour is very `progressive` and `modern` because the `goraas also do it`.
The goraagoochaaters.
english.aljazeera.net.
Please note that this is the CORRECT and genuine aljazeera site. The imperialists and thugs (the westerners) are trying to hoodwink the superior civilisations by a fraud site called aljazeera.com [ BEWARE of their such kind of history of theft called : `discovery`` and ``invention` credit]
again:
The genuine site in english is
english.aljazeera.net
Do not put www before english.
#74 Posted by dost_mittar on August 25, 2004 6:47:17 am
dionysus#71:
Thanks for the entire poem!
You are right, I got my info. about Ustad Daman from Pakistani sources; very few people know about him in India, except for some Punjabi nationalists.
In my opinion, he could still be regarded as ``muslim nationalist`` in the pre-partition parlance. The concept of Punjabi nationalism didn`t exist then, unless you can call the jat-coalition of Hayat-Chotu Ram (a haryanavi!) as Punjabi nationalism. As you are aware, before 1947, the question was one of dividing India. Muslims who were against the Muslim League and partition were all lumped as nationalists.
Thanks for the entire poem!
You are right, I got my info. about Ustad Daman from Pakistani sources; very few people know about him in India, except for some Punjabi nationalists.
In my opinion, he could still be regarded as ``muslim nationalist`` in the pre-partition parlance. The concept of Punjabi nationalism didn`t exist then, unless you can call the jat-coalition of Hayat-Chotu Ram (a haryanavi!) as Punjabi nationalism. As you are aware, before 1947, the question was one of dividing India. Muslims who were against the Muslim League and partition were all lumped as nationalists.
#73 Posted by ballukhan on August 23, 2004 6:24:29 am
I really find it hilarious when one praises the journalists for their ``balanced`` views about the Dictator. What the heck is wrong here! You have a dictator here who decides who shall rule and who shall not rule- what the country`s policies should and should not be. By God, atleast be honest and accept that you all are $hit scared to criticize him publically! Atleast say truthfully that you are afraid that the ISI would come knocking at your doors in the midnight if you speak against the General in public!
Acknowledge that your columns may not praise the General explicitely and you would prefer to remain silent co-conspirators in this rape of PAkistani constitution!!
And how dare does the General addreses the journalists in the Press conferences as if they are school boys!! That man has the guts to threaten the press and yet get away with it in Pakistan because most of the journalists write ``balanced`` (politically correct) columns about the Dictator and his policies!
Acknowledge that your columns may not praise the General explicitely and you would prefer to remain silent co-conspirators in this rape of PAkistani constitution!!
And how dare does the General addreses the journalists in the Press conferences as if they are school boys!! That man has the guts to threaten the press and yet get away with it in Pakistan because most of the journalists write ``balanced`` (politically correct) columns about the Dictator and his policies!
#72 Posted by omar_r_quraishi on August 23, 2004 6:24:29 am
oops sorry - that should have read dont waste your knowledge ON me -- (not being sarcastic there by the way)
#71 Posted by dionysus on August 23, 2004 6:24:14 am
#64 Dost mittar
Ustad Daman was NOT a Muslim Nationalist. He was as secular as they come and remained so even after the creation of Pakistan. If he was a nationalist at all, he was Punjabi nationalist who opposed the partition of Punjab, something which got him into a lot of trouble after the creation of Pakistan. The poem you quote is a very famous one and was addressed to Punjabi Hindus and Sikhs of West Punjab who migrated to Delhi. The story about his alleged rapport with Nehru has only ever come from some Pakistani sources. I don`t know how true it is. And I find it hard to believe he would have any warm feelings for a man responsible for dividing his country. His bitterness against Nehru (along with Jinnah and Gandhi) for carving up Punjab between Pakistan and India and his sadness at Punjabis for allowing it are very much apparent in this poem (``Jaagan Waliaan Nay Ruj Kaye Lot-yaa Aye, Soo-aye Tusee Wi O, Soo-aye us-ee Wi Aaa`n ``). And he railed against Zulfikar Ali Bhutto for signing the Simla pact with Nehru`s daughter, Indira Gandhi.
Anyway, here is his masterpiece in its entirety:
Bha`n-wain Moo-hoon Na Kahyae, Pur Wichoon Wichee
Khoo-aye Tusee Wi O, Khooaye us-ee Wi Aaa`n
Aya-naan Azaadian Huthoon Barbaad Hoona
Hoo-aye Tusee Wi O, Hoo-aye us-ee Wi Aaa`n
Ko-jh Ommeed Aye, Zind-agee Mil Ja-aye Gi
Moo-aye Tusee Wi O, Moo-aye us-ee Wi Aaa`n
Joondi Jan Aye, Mot Dai Moo-nh Undar
Dhoo-aye Tusee Wi O, Dhoo-aye us-ee Wi Aaa`n
Jaagan Waliaan Nay Ruj Kaye Lot-yaa Aye
Soo-aye Tusee Wi O, Soo-aye us-ee Wi Aaa`n
Lali Akhiaa`n Dee Pay-ee Dus-di Aye
Roo-aye Tusee Wi O, Roo-aye us-ee Wi Aaa`n.
Ustad Daman was NOT a Muslim Nationalist. He was as secular as they come and remained so even after the creation of Pakistan. If he was a nationalist at all, he was Punjabi nationalist who opposed the partition of Punjab, something which got him into a lot of trouble after the creation of Pakistan. The poem you quote is a very famous one and was addressed to Punjabi Hindus and Sikhs of West Punjab who migrated to Delhi. The story about his alleged rapport with Nehru has only ever come from some Pakistani sources. I don`t know how true it is. And I find it hard to believe he would have any warm feelings for a man responsible for dividing his country. His bitterness against Nehru (along with Jinnah and Gandhi) for carving up Punjab between Pakistan and India and his sadness at Punjabis for allowing it are very much apparent in this poem (``Jaagan Waliaan Nay Ruj Kaye Lot-yaa Aye, Soo-aye Tusee Wi O, Soo-aye us-ee Wi Aaa`n ``). And he railed against Zulfikar Ali Bhutto for signing the Simla pact with Nehru`s daughter, Indira Gandhi.
Anyway, here is his masterpiece in its entirety:
Bha`n-wain Moo-hoon Na Kahyae, Pur Wichoon Wichee
Khoo-aye Tusee Wi O, Khooaye us-ee Wi Aaa`n
Aya-naan Azaadian Huthoon Barbaad Hoona
Hoo-aye Tusee Wi O, Hoo-aye us-ee Wi Aaa`n
Ko-jh Ommeed Aye, Zind-agee Mil Ja-aye Gi
Moo-aye Tusee Wi O, Moo-aye us-ee Wi Aaa`n
Joondi Jan Aye, Mot Dai Moo-nh Undar
Dhoo-aye Tusee Wi O, Dhoo-aye us-ee Wi Aaa`n
Jaagan Waliaan Nay Ruj Kaye Lot-yaa Aye
Soo-aye Tusee Wi O, Soo-aye us-ee Wi Aaa`n
Lali Akhiaa`n Dee Pay-ee Dus-di Aye
Roo-aye Tusee Wi O, Roo-aye us-ee Wi Aaa`n.
#70 Posted by ferozk on August 23, 2004 2:06:20 am
re: Omar R. Qureshi
You said, `` dont waste your knowledge of me feroz sahib...``
???
Ciao
You said, `` dont waste your knowledge of me feroz sahib...``
???
Ciao
#69 Posted by omar_r_quraishi on August 22, 2004 11:45:12 pm
romair: your points are well -taken -- im quite surprised why so many pakistani interactors seem to ridicule -- it could be that in the company of mad men/women a sane man/woman
is thought to be insane
ana: omar #48.
it takes more of an effort for me to read your posts than not to read them, and since i don`t anymore, except for the unavoidable glance at #48, i would suggest that you refrain from addressing posts to me. it`s a waste of your editorial and educator genius. thank you!
ana -- u suffer from a persecution complex perhaps? acha how about this? should be succinct enough: please grow up ana.
there -- hope that wasnt too much of a bother to read -- will try and use mono syllables for you next time (hope there won`t be a next time though :)
ferozk sahib -- i dont think i would miss the sarcasm -- dont waste your knowledge of me feroz sahib -- i know ilahi bux`s family quite well -- he is a bit old for me to hang around with --
kkkandk -- why thank you -- well open invitation for you, whenever you`re in karachi, to drop by the dawn office --
is thought to be insane
ana: omar #48.
it takes more of an effort for me to read your posts than not to read them, and since i don`t anymore, except for the unavoidable glance at #48, i would suggest that you refrain from addressing posts to me. it`s a waste of your editorial and educator genius. thank you!
ana -- u suffer from a persecution complex perhaps? acha how about this? should be succinct enough: please grow up ana.
there -- hope that wasnt too much of a bother to read -- will try and use mono syllables for you next time (hope there won`t be a next time though :)
ferozk sahib -- i dont think i would miss the sarcasm -- dont waste your knowledge of me feroz sahib -- i know ilahi bux`s family quite well -- he is a bit old for me to hang around with --
kkkandk -- why thank you -- well open invitation for you, whenever you`re in karachi, to drop by the dawn office --
#68 Posted by dost_mittar on August 22, 2004 8:27:58 pm
echoboom#67
Thanks for your kindness.
``yahaaN tO eik bhee dhanG kaa daryaa naheeN.``
Shayad aap toronto ki baat kar rahe hain. Hamare haan tau Mashallah bahut barha Ottawa darya hai. In fact, looking at it, we cant even complain ``Ram teri ganga mailee``.
As for cultures, I rather like Gandhi`s approach, namely, keep the doors closed and the windows open; as far as the next generation is concerned, it is impossible to keep even the doors closed.
``Aaee zanjeer kee aavaaz, khudaa khair kray`` was indeed a beautiful marsiya-type song, sung by a new singer introduced by Khyaam whose name I now cannot recall. His deep, melodious voice touched your soul. It is only in the bizaare world of Bollywood that such talent will remain untilized even after being discovered.
Thanks for your kindness.
``yahaaN tO eik bhee dhanG kaa daryaa naheeN.``
Shayad aap toronto ki baat kar rahe hain. Hamare haan tau Mashallah bahut barha Ottawa darya hai. In fact, looking at it, we cant even complain ``Ram teri ganga mailee``.
As for cultures, I rather like Gandhi`s approach, namely, keep the doors closed and the windows open; as far as the next generation is concerned, it is impossible to keep even the doors closed.
``Aaee zanjeer kee aavaaz, khudaa khair kray`` was indeed a beautiful marsiya-type song, sung by a new singer introduced by Khyaam whose name I now cannot recall. His deep, melodious voice touched your soul. It is only in the bizaare world of Bollywood that such talent will remain untilized even after being discovered.
#67 Posted by echoboom on August 22, 2004 10:01:14 am
Dost_mittar:65
Anyway echoboom, for a product of Ganga-Jamni tehzeeb, your knowledge of Punjabi is really admirable:-).
Dost-mittar:
mitar pyaaray: Haal gareebaaN da kehnRaa.
Uzeez itnaa hee rakHho kay dil behal jaaey
Ub iss qadar bhee na chaaho kay ``duum``* nikl aey`
*instead of ``dUm nikal jaaey``--my attempt at humor.
ajee huzzat humaiN do-aaba kaa ta`naa daitay ho yaa tohmat lagaatay ho. ajee aisee izzat afzai kay quabil hUm kahaaN. Paanch-aab phir bhee doaab pur tO bhaari huay naaN? Mgr bhalaa ho kay Paanch-aab vaaloN ko ubb naee syaasee haqeequatoaN ko tasleem krtay huay khud ko seh-aab yaa Teen-aab (west P) aur Dooh-aab (east P) kehaty sharm aatee hai.
SarhadaiN zameen per khinchtee haiN diloaN mein naheeN. Diloan kee srhad khinchnaiN ko scar yaa clot kehtay haiN or phir by-pass hee by-pass hai.
Issi liyay Iqbal naiN zameenee taa`luque sey pehchaan kee nafee kee thee , vrnaa Panjabi aur Canada meiN? Cheh maani? yahaaN tO eik bhee dhanG kaa daryaa naheeN. Mgar thheek hee tO hai--zubaan kis franGee ney pakRRee hai, bhanGRRay per kiss kaa zoar hai, saag mkhaan kaun chheen saktaa hai. Aur phir Nanak tO nanak hee hai naa? Neverland bound.
Buss aisaa hee kuchh humaara taaluque hijaaz, arab, sey hai--uss zameen sey naheeN Islami tehzeeb sey. ``kissi kaa dard ho krtay haiN ``uss`` kay naam raquam``
HaaN jahaaN jahaaN hUm ney paRRaO dalaa uun mehrbaanoaN kee zubaan, khaanaa; aur libaas ko bhee upnaya--mehz unkee muhabbat meiN. Vrnaa angraiz bahadur kee tarah unn ko hUm upnay rang meiN naa ruNg laitay?
Ustaad Daman:
Considering the literary ``standard`` of `modern` times, may I suggest that Ustaad Daman was way `modern` for his times. It is just that our `tolerance` standards are also frangee-defined.
``Aaee zanjeer kee aavaaz, khudaa khair kray``
Anyway echoboom, for a product of Ganga-Jamni tehzeeb, your knowledge of Punjabi is really admirable:-).
Dost-mittar:
mitar pyaaray: Haal gareebaaN da kehnRaa.
Uzeez itnaa hee rakHho kay dil behal jaaey
Ub iss qadar bhee na chaaho kay ``duum``* nikl aey`
*instead of ``dUm nikal jaaey``--my attempt at humor.
ajee huzzat humaiN do-aaba kaa ta`naa daitay ho yaa tohmat lagaatay ho. ajee aisee izzat afzai kay quabil hUm kahaaN. Paanch-aab phir bhee doaab pur tO bhaari huay naaN? Mgr bhalaa ho kay Paanch-aab vaaloN ko ubb naee syaasee haqeequatoaN ko tasleem krtay huay khud ko seh-aab yaa Teen-aab (west P) aur Dooh-aab (east P) kehaty sharm aatee hai.
SarhadaiN zameen per khinchtee haiN diloaN mein naheeN. Diloan kee srhad khinchnaiN ko scar yaa clot kehtay haiN or phir by-pass hee by-pass hai.
Issi liyay Iqbal naiN zameenee taa`luque sey pehchaan kee nafee kee thee , vrnaa Panjabi aur Canada meiN? Cheh maani? yahaaN tO eik bhee dhanG kaa daryaa naheeN. Mgar thheek hee tO hai--zubaan kis franGee ney pakRRee hai, bhanGRRay per kiss kaa zoar hai, saag mkhaan kaun chheen saktaa hai. Aur phir Nanak tO nanak hee hai naa? Neverland bound.
Buss aisaa hee kuchh humaara taaluque hijaaz, arab, sey hai--uss zameen sey naheeN Islami tehzeeb sey. ``kissi kaa dard ho krtay haiN ``uss`` kay naam raquam``
HaaN jahaaN jahaaN hUm ney paRRaO dalaa uun mehrbaanoaN kee zubaan, khaanaa; aur libaas ko bhee upnaya--mehz unkee muhabbat meiN. Vrnaa angraiz bahadur kee tarah unn ko hUm upnay rang meiN naa ruNg laitay?
Ustaad Daman:
Considering the literary ``standard`` of `modern` times, may I suggest that Ustaad Daman was way `modern` for his times. It is just that our `tolerance` standards are also frangee-defined.
``Aaee zanjeer kee aavaaz, khudaa khair kray``
#66 Posted by echoboom on August 22, 2004 10:01:14 am
dost-mittar:64
But philosophically he was far removed from both of you.
Faiz ahmad Faiz and maulana abul-ala maudoodi were good friends. In fact at one time they were together in Jail and both could have been sentenced to death. There, Faiz & he studied Qura`an together. Faiz turned out to be Faiz because of his madressa education under Maulvi Meer Hasan; who also taught Iqbal.
It is this kind of ``understanding`` which is lacking among most of us today.
But philosophically he was far removed from both of you.
Faiz ahmad Faiz and maulana abul-ala maudoodi were good friends. In fact at one time they were together in Jail and both could have been sentenced to death. There, Faiz & he studied Qura`an together. Faiz turned out to be Faiz because of his madressa education under Maulvi Meer Hasan; who also taught Iqbal.
It is this kind of ``understanding`` which is lacking among most of us today.
#65 Posted by dost_mittar on August 22, 2004 7:10:01 am
PS to #64: But he never used language like ``kise vichon maan yawaii ae``.
#64 Posted by dost_mittar on August 22, 2004 7:08:25 am
echoboom, urstruly:
Ustaad Daman was really a great poet of the masses. His simple language and vivid imagery connected him immediately to the common man. But philosophically he was far removed from both of you. He was a muslim nationalist whose house in Lahoe was destroyed by muslim leaguees during the partition. Soon after, he read this poem at a Delhi Kavi Darbar:
Jaagan valiaan raj ke lutya ae
Soye tusi vi au, soye asi vi aan
Laali akhiyaan di payi das-di ae
roye tusi vi au, roye asi vi aan [what a beauty!]
In fact Nehru wanted him to stay on in Delhi but he could not think of leaving Lahore, and said,``main ravaanga Lahore vich bhaanvein jail vich ravaan``.
But I dont think that he wrote ``meri tut-di kise naan vekhi``. This is one of the two popular punjabi songs I remember from the partition days, the other being ``aithon ud jaa bholya pachchiya, ve tu apni jaan bacha``.
And I dont think that Shiv Batalvi is famous for ghazals. He is more famous for his souleful poems like ``Bhatti vaaliye`` and ``aj din chadya tere rang varga``.
Anyway echoboom, for a product of Ganga-Jamni tehzeeb, your knowledge of Punjabi is really admirable:-).
Ustaad Daman was really a great poet of the masses. His simple language and vivid imagery connected him immediately to the common man. But philosophically he was far removed from both of you. He was a muslim nationalist whose house in Lahoe was destroyed by muslim leaguees during the partition. Soon after, he read this poem at a Delhi Kavi Darbar:
Jaagan valiaan raj ke lutya ae
Soye tusi vi au, soye asi vi aan
Laali akhiyaan di payi das-di ae
roye tusi vi au, roye asi vi aan [what a beauty!]
In fact Nehru wanted him to stay on in Delhi but he could not think of leaving Lahore, and said,``main ravaanga Lahore vich bhaanvein jail vich ravaan``.
But I dont think that he wrote ``meri tut-di kise naan vekhi``. This is one of the two popular punjabi songs I remember from the partition days, the other being ``aithon ud jaa bholya pachchiya, ve tu apni jaan bacha``.
And I dont think that Shiv Batalvi is famous for ghazals. He is more famous for his souleful poems like ``Bhatti vaaliye`` and ``aj din chadya tere rang varga``.
Anyway echoboom, for a product of Ganga-Jamni tehzeeb, your knowledge of Punjabi is really admirable:-).
#63 Posted by ferozk on August 21, 2004 11:48:25 pm
re: Omar R. Qureshi
I am glad that you noted the sarcasm. I was afraid that you might miss it. To be honest, it is very hard to be sarcastic on Chowk without sounding rude.
As to Somooro, I believe that he was jailed in 1975 over a difference with Bhutto and after a patch up between the two, was nominatated to represent Pakistan in London. He is a delightful gentleman of the old school (who also used to keep a fridge full of Swiss chocolates which I used to indulge in liberally).
Ciao
I am glad that you noted the sarcasm. I was afraid that you might miss it. To be honest, it is very hard to be sarcastic on Chowk without sounding rude.
As to Somooro, I believe that he was jailed in 1975 over a difference with Bhutto and after a patch up between the two, was nominatated to represent Pakistan in London. He is a delightful gentleman of the old school (who also used to keep a fridge full of Swiss chocolates which I used to indulge in liberally).
Ciao
#62 Posted by echoboom on August 21, 2004 12:26:13 pm
Urstruly:
great posts--re: Ustaad Daaman.
To ``corrupt`` a shair by Iftikhar Arif, and apply it in Panjabis context.
``Urdu`` kee muhhabbat meiN hUm aashuftaa sroaN neiN
voh qarz utaaray haiN , jo vaajib bhee naheeN thhay.
Faiz ruefully expressed his `impotence` about writing in Panjabi. When prodded by Major Ishaque he said how possibly he could write like Ustaad Daman who was so firmly rooted in the heart of the language.
He gave an example;`` How in any other language can one express thus``-
`Miri luGGdee kisay naa vaikhee
tai tuTTdee nooN juG jaOndaa.`
My favourites: ``Udeekna`` ``pabbiaaN p`aar``. .
In my well considered opinion the Panjaabi of Pakistani-Panjaabi is more expressive and poetic , Shiv Batalvi notwithstanding. In fact it is his ``Ghazal`` ethos rather than ``geet`` which has given him ``stature``.
great posts--re: Ustaad Daaman.
To ``corrupt`` a shair by Iftikhar Arif, and apply it in Panjabis context.
``Urdu`` kee muhhabbat meiN hUm aashuftaa sroaN neiN
voh qarz utaaray haiN , jo vaajib bhee naheeN thhay.
Faiz ruefully expressed his `impotence` about writing in Panjabi. When prodded by Major Ishaque he said how possibly he could write like Ustaad Daman who was so firmly rooted in the heart of the language.
He gave an example;`` How in any other language can one express thus``-
`Miri luGGdee kisay naa vaikhee
tai tuTTdee nooN juG jaOndaa.`
My favourites: ``Udeekna`` ``pabbiaaN p`aar``. .
In my well considered opinion the Panjaabi of Pakistani-Panjaabi is more expressive and poetic , Shiv Batalvi notwithstanding. In fact it is his ``Ghazal`` ethos rather than ``geet`` which has given him ``stature``.
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