Coming of Age

Re: # 9
Hassan, I dont agree that corruption and red-tape are the core to the problem of whats holding back the Pakistani IT sector from booming as the Indian IT sector did. Come to think of it, these very same problems plague india as well, and are as deep rooted. But India has managed the success in software, inspite of all these issues. I believe the key to success here is to having a liberal head at the policy making table. At the end of the day, all these ``oracles, intels and siebels`` want is to make profit. Maybe they are looking for a more stable environment, politically and socially. Pakistan probably needs to work towards achieving such an atmosphere.

One of the biggest problems for Pakistani exporters (regardless of industry) has been a lack of credibility with respect to political and economic stability.

Once Pakistan has efficient, incorrupt institutions that have a credibility with different markets around the world, it would not face as many problems as it does now. I am sure Pakistani software/call centers/other IT services can be just as good as any other country.

However, our problem has been corrupt, bureaucratic institutions that do not enforce the rule of law when it comes to trade and commerce within and outside the country. We need to have credibility in that department to get our foot in the door of international markets.

Rsidhar #6: ``Now, if Romair Miyan is talking about PTCL, it was recently bought not for 10 billion but for 2.3 billion or thereabout. A big price nevertheless. Who bought it? One of Pak`s muslim benefactor`s, paying 40% higher than what Singapore and some other bidders had to offer.``

Could I kindly request you to not interfere and ruin constructive discussions, on this board. This thread has nothing to do with India. Yet I have this strange feeling that many of our Indian colleagues are going to try to ruin the discussion. I can never figure out why? You may want to utilize your hatred into some sort of a positive energy, and go expend it somewhere else..........

PTCL was valued at $10 billion. Etilisat bought 26% of it at 2.6 billion. I wouild like to leave it upto you to do the math, from that point onwards. But I am not sure, if you have enough time to do so, since you cannot see anything accept Muslim and Hindu anywhere. So here is how the Muslim math goes: It may be incorrect, but this is what we were taught.

If someone is paying 2.6 billion for 26% of a company, then they are valuing the 100% of company at 10 billion. Would you agree..........Could I get you to admit that in your Hindu/Muslim hatred frenzy, perhaps you made a mistake? And could we get an apology from you.........Or is that too much to ask.......

This Hindu/Muslim hatred that you show is going to destroy you someday. Or you will ending up destroying someone around you............

#1 -- u moron, the price wasnt for all of PTCL but roughly a quarter of its shares, which is why the writer said that it was valued at around 10 billion -- despite being a monopoly it paid an after tax profit of close to rs 30 billion u shithead

re: #2 by Romair
``A good way to judge this is that Pakistan`s largest telecom company is valued at $10 billion and employs 60-70k people. ``
$ 10 billion! Really.
Now, if Romair Miyan is talking about PTCL, it was recently bought not for 10 billion but for 2.3 billion or thereabout. A big price nevertheless. Who bought it? One of Pak`s muslim benefactor`s, paying 40% higher than what Singapore and some other bidders had to offer.
http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/BusinessNF.asp?ArticleID=169957
He is right about the number of workers. It is around 61k.
Sridhar

Well i dont agree to this measuring IT in pakistan with an expanding Internet and web site designing. The revenue generating areas are IT infrastructure support, Enterprise applications developement and support.

I have been in the software industry for the last 10 yrs and worked in many countries in Europe and I think Pakistan has a bright future but that will take time .. Pakistan just came into IT in mid 90s with `fill force`. PakistN is producing fewer people but they are of good quality and currently they have mostly opted for careers in US and Europe. I am sure they will be able to bring offshoring work to pakistan in the next 5-10 yrs if conditions stay stable in the country.

One comment that i got a couple of times from my clients in comparison to Indians was that they gave us `few` Pakistanis an edge when it came to communication skills but at the same time when giving projects they were concerned about the political conditions and the security situation in pakistan.

slacker #3: ``While India hosts the Oracles, the Intels, the Siebels, etc. maybe Pakistan can concentrate in another arena - albeit it would need to build a brand new business district in Lahore, Karachi, or Islamabad to attract that kind of investment or interest.``

I think Pakistan needs a completely different kind of business model from India in software. What India did will not work in Pakistan. Yet everyone seems to be trying to mimic that.........

The telco market in Pakistan has boomed already. Primarily because it is based on the local demand. That is how the software market will have to be developed. Initially, on the shoulders of the local market. The biggest multinationals in Pakistan barely have software revenues between $5 - $10 million in Pakistan. Due to which there is little demand for local software implementation skills.

Surely the local Pakistan market should be larger than that. Pakistani software companies need to develop business models where they find solutions for automating the local market. I talked with this one guy there whose company is starting to put the local land records online, so that one does not have to go through patwaris. Things like that is where everyone should be looking......There are other areas, like developing software for the local Defence industry, implementing banking solutions etc......

India already has first-mover advantage on developing generic off-shore software projects, and Pakistan will never be able to develop much of a foothold there, now. Hence its companies will never get a chance to mature. They will only mature through the local market now..........

Also, the govt. needs to start trying to get overseas Pakistani IT professionals to invest in the software market. Go to any Pakistani IT function in the USA today, and ask the attendees how many have invested in land in Pakistan. Half will raise their hands. Ask them, how many have invested in IT, no one will raise their hands. Because in land, they have a good business model to participate in. However, in software they do not have a good business model to invest in..........

I agree that topics like this are much more interesting than all the typical finger-pointing ``they started it`` bickering that consumes much of the Chowk boards.

To me, the first surprise came when Pakistanis kept moving up the demographics chart on the social networking site Orkut, where they are now at #4, behind Brazil (which has completely taken it over), the US, and Iran (another surprise).

I`m also intrigued by the online culture developing in Pakistan among the youth - they type in a shorthand which makes ebonics seems Shakespearean: ``juNoOn rulZ! Y oR y NoT?`` They type entire online conversations this way. I know it`s a mode of communication among American teens, but the fact that Pakistani teens have caught onto this to such an extent, where they`ve abandoned typing in normal English completely, caught me off guard.

However, all these Pak kids on line are obviously part of the ``haves``. The population of the ``have nots`` (esp. in terms of cyber access) in the country is much, much larger, so how this situation is remedied (if at all) will be interesting.

Now that the telecom companies have begun in earnest, it would be prudent to harness this and grow the IT/internet sector. While India hosts the Oracles, the Intels, the Siebels, etc. maybe Pakistan can concentrate in another arena - albeit it would need to build a brand new business district in Lahore, Karachi, or Islamabad to attract that kind of investment or interest. The fact that Yahoo just paid an insane amount of money for a stake in Alibaba.com shows the potential is there for such an industry to grow manyfold in Pakistan also. One can hope, atleast. ;-)

Interesting article...

If Chowk is ever to turn into a productive website, where people spend their mental bandwidths, discussing real problems that affect Pakistan, articles like this will have to be the ones that get the most hits. I have a feeling that will not happen....

The only thing people seem interested in are discussing Jinnah`s speeches, Relgion, secularism, etc. All topics that one cannot fill one`s stomach with.......

Pakistan`s telecom sector has developed and has had a boom. Pakistan`s software sector has gone in the opposite direction. A good way to judge this is that Pakistan`s largest telecom company is valued at $10 billion and employs 60-70k people. While the largest software company is (probably) valued at a few million dollars (perhaps 10 million). With the largest one employing 400-500 people or so..........

Students are turning from software to telecom engg..........Pakistan has a pretty good telco business model, but is still searching for a valid software business model........

The importance of the world-wide web (WWW) to countries like Pakistan (and perhaps quite a few parts of India and the rest of the subcontinent) can not be overemphasized. I look forward to the day when everyone – poor or rich – will have easy access to the essentially unlimited library that WWW represents and be in a position to understand, face, and address most of one’s and society’s problems – which are usually rooted in the lack of education. Obviously, nobody doubts the ingenuity and capabilities of average Pakistanis. A certain amount of bumps and jerks are inevitable during any kind of start-up. Software piracy and other related problems will eventually get addressed, as happened in the US, through on-line registration requirements. As with most such issues, less government interference and involvement is generally better. The key is to make the web access available and affordable for everybody. Any investment in the necessary infrastructure is the best type of investment any government could make – with a far better potential to benefit its people than those made in weapons of mass destruction – all of which have a finite shelf life. I hope this Pakistani industry DOES come of age, grows well and gives everybody (including India) a run for the money – such a situation benefits everyone since it benefits the only one that really counts – the consumer.