The Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s Destiny?

Re: # 21

Mantolives

It is news to me, this anthem written by Jagan Nath Azad marhoom. Can we see the full anthem, please?

Salim_chauhan

Re: # 45
Thanks! But what is this `collective orgasmic pleasure` which Samina shah and Scout, etc., enjoy by referring to rodents, as you allege? Will you please elaborate?

Re: # 43

Shah Sahib,
That was an excellent shair from Akbar Allahbadi. Maybe we should launch a ``rappat`` about the awkward use of the good name of Allah in ``Allah Hafiz.``
BTW, no harm done in spelling my name as ``Chouhan.`` I know that you meant well. It`s just that there a few Muslims and Pakistanis on Chowk UP (Saminasha, Scout, and others) who find this Hindu name funny and associate it with rodents, much to their collective orgasmic pleasure. :)

Thanks,

Re: # 36
``The key point to remember is that the really religious people and parties, notably Jamaat-e-Islami, Maulana Azad, Maulana Maududi, Maulana Madni, and other Muslim leaders were vehmently against Pakistan.``

I think this needs clarification..............most of them opposed Pakistan on theological grounds only and because a visibly anglicized Jinnah was hijacking movement which they tried to derive its roots from Islamic solidarity. In a way the maulanas had a grouse against Jinnah taking the political cake on grounds for which only they were obviously better qualified ............Therefore, they opposed Pakistan NOT on political grounds but on THEOLOGICAL grounds...

In case of Maududi the issue was of Islamic principles..........although he was not a pro-active supporter for the movement for homeland being led by a westernized Jinnah.......he didn`t admire an anglicized Jinnah hijacking the Islamic notion of solidarity and diluting it for political purposes..........to him a homeland or a piece of territory was irrelevant unless the rule of god was established on it............so clearly he was for a Pakistan that was an Islamic nation and not for a Pakistan that was merely a muslim land ......

Scholars like Madni had better arguments. He opposed TNT or ``do quami nazariya`` on the grounds that it was not supported by Quran. Madni had argued that the Qur’an mentions various prophets as addressing those among their own people who rejected them as members of their own ‘qaum’, exhorting them to heed God’s word. From this, Madni argued, it is clear that, Muslims and non-Muslims cannot be considered to be members of two different ‘qaums’ if they share a common ethnicity, language or motherland. If they share these traits in common they can be said to belong to the same ‘qaum’. The ‘two nation’ theory (do qaumi nazariya) of the Muslim League, therefore, has no Qur’anic basis at all...........

So, this is another propaganda by the neo-TNTists that the maulanas and mullahs opposed Pakistan........the fact remains they only opposed the sight of an anglicized Jinnah leading the movement on the plank which they thought they should be guiding................

Re: # 38

Chauhan dear! Sorry to have misspelled your name. As far as I remember my friends Chauhans spelled it with `o`. Any how, it is only a personal choice. No mention.

You reminded me of Cyrus and with him Yahya khan who made Pakies to celebrate the Millenium or what of the great Cyrus to please Raza Shah, the king of Iran, but today even the name of Cyrus` god, Khuda, which has been used even in the National Anthem of Pakistan, has become an anathema in that Pakland. It was perhaps Zia, the pseudo-Islamist, who started monoplysing the Arabic God, Allah, to please Saudi gods of his. All this inspite of the fact that our past literature, even religious one , is full of the name of `Khuda`. It reminds me of the famous couplet of Urdu poet Akbar Allah Abadi which seems to be very `Hasbe haal` today:

``Raqiibon ne rapat likhwaai ja ja ke thane mein
kih Akbar nam leta he khuda ka is zamane mein``

Let us see which god the enlightened moderation of Musharraf brings in. It is yet in the process of making.

#34 Shankar

Ah, the long separated love of my life! How have I missed you!

Aren`t YOU the one who went around challenging Biharis - and now that you bumped into the REAL thing - Kai kartos? What`s the matter - you expect every one to treat you like a soft daisy (oh, how delicate!) like you have gotten used to from that pretend Bihari friend of yours? Stop relieving yourself in your pants, we Biharis are really benign individuals!

[...``get a life``...]
Interseting quote from somebody like you (Member since: December 29, 1999). I DO have a life - as a legitimate janitor. You only wish you could have been one - only in your dreams, pal! I don`t think you are made of the right stuff to become one, either, strictly on moral grounds! Because I see you have been two-timing (as in ``...I love both lands with a passion.. ``)

Re: # 29, Shankar {``From Bombay DOWN...all of S.India will declare independance...f*ck Kashmir even...we will invade Sri Lanka & annex it...just for spite :}

Arey Shankar Bhayya,
Did you guys lose another match to the Sri Lankans? :)

Re: # 30, Shankar {``Nice try! baccha...we brahmins aint as DUMB as we look!``}

Shankar Bhayya,
I never said that you Brahmins were DUMB. Who else could get away with having paindoos pucker their pale posteriors while paying them paisas? And to top it off, having valiant Rajputs defend your right to have your Brahmin buttocks blessed by beautiful banniya bimbos. :)

Re: # 31 Shankar {``Thanks for the education; Salim
At least Allah has put SOME brain cells in your skull. ``}

Shankar Bhayya,
Your education is priority #1 for me. :)

As I said before, Rajputs do not need brain cells. We are warriors and lovers. ``)

Re: # 35

Shah Sahib, {``It seems we have gone back to `Doure Jahiliah` when human beings behaved like robots, bereft of their `Aql`.``}

Sir, couldn`t agree more with you. :)

Just look at ``Rab Rakha`` it is Arabic and Punjabi - e.g. Rab-ul-Alimeen. :)
Now, some Sikh clergyman could say that they should change it to ``Wahe Guru Rakha.`` That would be OK, but why? Isn`t it the intent that counts? When I say ``Khuda Hafiz,`` the farthest thing from my mind is paying any homage to the deity of Cyrus, Darius, and Nosheerwan - not that there is anything wrong with that either.

BTW, my name is spelled Chauhan, not Chouhan - no rodentary insinuation, please. :) Saminasha on UP has the patent on that. :)
Thanks,

The LB Elections are marred in contreversy. It`s hopeless.

Much is being made said on this board about the rationale for Pakistan. Some say it was Jinnah`s dream of a progressive, secular land, while others insist that it is exactly what Muslim masses wanted, a religious homeland where they could practice Islam to its fullest.

I beg to differ with both viewpoints. In my opinion, Pakistan was formed out of economic interests. The Congress Party had come out for land reforms, but only for UP and Bihar (where mostly Muslims were the land-owning ``nobility.`` In Punjab, Bengal, and Sind, the landowners were mostly Sikhs and Hindus. This selective ``land reform`` agenda of the Congress alarmed many UP Muslims who cleverly (or selfishly or stupidly) converted this fear into an ``Islamic`` issue. AligaRh was mobilized and we went through iterations of Muslim leadership of the Muslim League - Mohammad Ali Jauhar etc..

This fear of Congress ``land reform`` among UP Muslims met the aspirations of Bombay-based Gujarati/MaRwari Muslim business interests, and the frustations of Bengali Muslims at always having the short end of the stick in Bengal. Thus an alliance of economic interests was formed that needed some holy water to make it bloom. Jauhar, Iqbal, and others could not provide what the newly-converted Mr. Jinnah was able to deliver - effective leadership and credibility with the British. Poor Punjabi, Sindhi, and Pathan Muslims, who never really wanted Pakistan, were dragged into having a ``religious`` party right on their front yard. There was no real referendum for Pakistan. Muslims were voting for the Muslim League, because they thought it was protecting their ``economic`` interests for beter employment, education, protection of lands, and as a check against perceived ``political and economic`` domination by the majority Hindus.

The key point to remember is that the really religious people and parties, notably Jamaat-e-Islami, Maulana Azad, Maulana Maududi, Maulana Madni, and other Muslim leaders were vehmently against Pakistan.

Thanks for listening. :)

Re: # 24

Salim_chouhan

I wonder at Paki Awam how easily they left `Khuda hafiz` and started chanting `Allah hafiz`. Once when a daughter-in-law of mine wished `Allah hafiz` to me I retorted, ``Don`t hand over a sinner like me to Allah, the vengeful, instead of `Khuda or Rab` the compassionate. Why not say `Rab Raakha```. Some extremist mullah have serious objection to calling Allah by a Pagan name `Khuda` which act according to them is `Gunahe Kabeera` but paradoxically they insist on giving a Pagan name, `Namaz`, from the same source to their worship, Quranic Salaat. It seems we have gone back to `Doure Jahiliah` when human beings behaved like robots, bereft of their `Aql`.

Re: # 33

BeeJay,

{{Back from the couch, already?! }}

YUP!!! these days I MAKE time to ``get a life``....juuuuussst to spit on Bihari papayas...like thou..

This article is another pious lecture by a representative of a people who will never look the problem straight in face – because they secretly WANT things to stay just the way they are.

[Pakistan`s destiny cannot forever be controlled by a group of people or by any establishment, regardless of whether it is foreign or domestic.]
The key question, my dear, is if it will be done so by RELIGION? Keep evading that question – and nothing will change. Institutions are created and broken by men – exact forms are unimportant. The heart needs to have the desire for a change.

#Shankar (various)
Back from the couch, already?!

Salim,

I don`t agree with your opinion- the flag that Mountbatten wanted to push through was actually completely green.

The white strip was added because of Jinnah`s insistence. Jinnah also insisted on having 5 stars, one for each federating unit.

It is important that we mention again and again the National Anthem approved by Mahomed Ali Jinnah himself... a completely secular national anthem written by Jagan Nath Azad.

Re: # 27

Yow!
Thanks for the education; Salim
At least Allah has put SOME brain cells in your skull.

Now, if you can be a REAL nice guy...could you...puhlease petition your govt....to take a foetid, hyena-laughing, nightsoil carrying, unemployed (i-hate-indian-indoor-plummin) dalit...to KARACHI!

BUTT BUTT tell your great citizens...they have NO LEG to stand on...when their leaders have spat on Jinnah & Prophet Muhammed in such a shameless manner..when they preach to us...or think they are a HIGH MORAL GROUND when it comes to Kashmir...

Khuda Hafiz